Karune explains how T or P counter 1hatch queen.

[Santrega]

There really isn't a reason not to wall now though. Supply depots can submerge, the only downside to walling in SC1 was the fact that it narrowed the choke making units take longer to get out of the base but since supply depots now submerge it's only beneficial to wall.

The reason not to is because you want to lose.

[supersonic]

That sounds much like you had insufficient aggression to me. The advantage of walling in and being defensive is being able to effectively harass. Get those Stalkers out there and start blowing up expos. If they try to have free access to the map, send some Warp Prisms in there to teach them that there's no such thing as free access to the map in SC2.

No it was mostly because if you didn't wall in the Protoss would have 1 Zealot for each Marine you had, so you really couldn't do much..

[Nicol Bolas]

No it was mostly because if you didn't wall in the Protoss would have 1 Zealot for each Marine you had, so you really couldn't do much..

If you're the Terran, then the same logic applies, just with different units. After your wall-in, where were your Reapers, sent out to blow up expansions? Where were the Medivac drops with stim'd Marines? Where were your Banshees? Hell, where were your Ghosts with Nukes?

Yes, if you sit behind a wall and pretend that your opponent isn't trying to take the map, you'll get a rude awakening when they break your walls and take you down. However, the purpose of the wall is to prevent early-game predation, not so that you can sit back and let them gain an economic advantage.

[supersonic]

If you're the Terran, then the same logic applies, just with different units. After your wall-in, where were your Reapers, sent out to blow up expansions? Where were the Medivac drops with stim'd Marines? Where were your Banshees? Hell, where were your Ghosts with Nukes?

Yes, if you sit behind a wall and pretend that your opponent isn't trying to take the map, you'll get a rude awakening when they break your walls and take you down. However, the purpose of the wall is to prevent early-game predation, not so that you can sit back and let them gain an economic advantage.

=S by the time you got any of that, the Protoss would have Phase Prisms and could warp in a TON of Zealots and Stalkers into your base, or do you expect me to have 20 MTs lining by base too.

They have the Econ advantage from the very start

[Nicol Bolas]

by the time you got any of that, the Protoss would have Phase Prisms and could warp in a TON of Zealots and Stalkers into your base, or do you expect me to have 20 MTs lining by base too.

Um, Phase Prisms require Robotics Facilities. Unless you're simply not teching at all, you can easily get double-pumpable and cheap Vikings by the time the Warp Prism is out. Oh yea, and Vikings can raid.

And Marines... can shoot Warp Prisms!

It doesn't matter what kind of economic advantage the Protoss have, because it doesn't cause their buildings to build faster.

And yes, if that's what it takes, build Missile Turrets. Or Thors. Or whatever you need to secure your base.

[supersonic]

Um, Phase Prisms require Robotics Facilities. Unless you're simply not teching at all, you can easily get double-pumpable and cheap Vikings by the time the Warp Prism is out. Oh yea, and Vikings can raid.

And Marines... can shoot Warp Prisms!

It doesn't matter what kind of economic advantage the Protoss have, because it doesn't cause their buildings to build faster.

And yes, if that's what it takes, build Missile Turrets. Or Thors. Or whatever you need to secure your base.

Your strategies do sound pretty good, and I'm not the best Terran player because they are my least favourite, but since the Protoss get minerals so fast you can tech up pretty fast. Although your thoery crafting for different ideas is making me want to try them out =[ I miss playing SC2 already, I can't wait till beta to try that stuff out. I agree that I didn't do tech builds so that might have been my problem.

I can definitely see what you are saying, and I do agree Terran almost always needs to wall, I just don't like walling as Protoss because it gets troublesome.

[flabortast]

It's not like you should just stare at the phase prism as it deploys its power field and starts waping in units. Shoot it down..

[supersonic]

It's not like you should just stare at the phase prism as it deploys its power field and starts waping in units. Shoot it down..

lol I know that but it's relatively fast and you can put it at a place the player isn't aware, maybe it was just who I was playing vs but it seemed to work out pretty well. Distraction in the front and moving quickly into the back.

[flabortast]

Last time I checked the warp prism had a tiny power radius. I don't think its possible to warp-in units while still having the prism is in an unreachable spot. I guess maybe your opponent just out macroed you?

[Islandsnake]

Umm you can defiantly play without walling in even in sc1.

Yeah it takes some cleaver placement but its certainly doable


The main thing about walling in is that it gives you a way to prevent a scout in some cases, which is key.

You can also do this by blocking your ramp with 2 scvs.


Though to be honest why would you not want to wall in...it kinda makes sense