Karune explains how T or P counter 1hatch queen.

[supersonic]

aye, but with burrowing supply depots why wouldn't you wall in your choke every game?

I don't play Terran, that basically being my main issue, if I did then I wouldn't mind, but I play Protoss and I don't like walling in. Don't get me wrong you gotta block stuff off with units and stuff but, walling noty..

[warrior6]

like someone said, the answer kind of dances around the issue. aside from the fact that the zerg can force you to wall in and build plenty of early game defenders + defences, you are somewhat in the dark as to what the zerg is actually doing. he could just mass out drones instead and take a huge eco advantage. thats where the core problem lies. the zerg hold the initiative and call the shots all the time in early game.

[DemolitionSquid]

The solution is to make the mechanics less accessible. Like putting them at higher tier.

[Perfecttear]

I think that the queen should cost 75min and 75 gas intead of 150 minerals it does now, that would effectively delay the queen for about 1min ( 30 seconds to build an Extractor and the rest to collect the gas), that 1 exstra minute would make all the difference, since there is no fear of a rush

[Pandonetho]

Hm, so change the Queen to in actuality cost 175 minerals + more time + gas.

The Queen could easily remake that back with its current capabilities, I suppose the only important factor is time.

[Perfecttear]

Update:

I thought Nullifiers were now known as Disruptors?

Correction, yes, they are Disruptors. Old habits die hard.

Karune, could you address the actual problem, which is the inability to determine whether the Zerg is powering or massing (Zerglings prevent any worker scouting due to greatly improved pathing and Creep bonus) that causes T and P players to overly defend?


"i thought that the point was that 1 hatch wasn't impossible to stop but that it denied scouting too well and left your opponents in the dark from which you could either macro up drones or offensive and your opponent would have to keep guessing from a backwards position

ie. the solutions seem to only address early lings/hydras not the alternative or

did i not comprehend/read properly?" - dcberkeley

"It doesn't address the fact that zerg can power up.

All it stated was. "If the T/P turtles they won't lose" "When they get to the mid-game they win."

Except with the abilitiy to mass drones, won't the Z have too large of an economy before t/p can push? Like, after the first set of lings with speed to deny scouting, the zerg can get 2 bases running for long enough to be weaker in mid game, but throw enough weak units and you still beat the better army.

I'm sure he knows best, but I would've liked it more if he spoke about how it opens up options not just the ability get a large rush." - randombum

"I don't understand. The poster specifically asks about the economic advantage from queen unit/drone powering and the difficulty to scouting Zerg, yet he answers how to block a Zergling rush. This does not help at all." - zatic

Scouting is much easier now in StarCraft II for various reasons including earlier Observers (without the prerequisite Observatory building as in the original StarCraft), more mobile units like Reapers/Colossi/Stalkers/Medivacs (more incentive now to build these than original StarCraft since they double up as medics). All of these methods of scouting will be available by mid-game and be useful from then on. Before mid game - SCVs and probes are sufficient to scout. Once Zergling speed gets upgraded, there may be a small window of more difficult scouting, but honestly, that window is much smaller than say playing against a Terran player that blocks you out completely. Additionally, Terran still have scan and Protoss still can go fast air to scout and harass Overlords.

Also mentioned in my previous post, these were just a few ways to deal with the 1 hatch threat. There are definitely ways to build your base without blocking the choke, but I have found blocking it against Zerg as the best way to keep fast Zerglings out with the least amount of attention.

[supersonic]

Scouting is much easier now in StarCraft II for various reasons including earlier Observers (without the prerequisite Observatory building as in the original StarCraft), more mobile units like Reapers/Colossi/Stalkers/Medivacs (more incentive now to build these than original StarCraft since they double up as medics). All of these methods of scouting will be available by mid-game and be useful from then on. Before mid game - SCVs and probes are sufficient to scout. Once Zergling speed gets upgraded, there may be a small window of more difficult scouting, but honestly, that window is much smaller than say playing against a Terran player that blocks you out completely. Additionally, Terran still have scan and Protoss still can go fast air to scout and harass Overlords.

Also mentioned in my previous post, these were just a few ways to deal with the 1 hatch threat. There are definitely ways to build your base without blocking the choke, but I have found blocking it against Zerg as the best way to keep fast Zerglings out with the least amount of attention.

Still like what was said already " the zerg hold the initiative and call the shots all the time in early game." you really shouldn't feel powerless at the start, and this still gives Zerg a huge lead in resources by mid game.

But of course this will all be balanced in beta =P

[ArcherofAiur]

Still like what was said already " the zerg hold the initiative and call the shots all the time in early game." you really shouldn't feel powerless at the start, and this still gives Zerg a huge lead in resources by mid game.

But of course this will all be balanced in beta =P

Yah so a 1 hatch queen has the advantage early game but then T and P get stronger mid game. For one thier Macro mechanics start to ramp up. I actually like this kind of timing window kind of gameplay.

[supersonic]

Yah so a 1 hatch queen has the advantage early game but then T and P get stronger mid game. For one thier Macro mechanics start to ramp up. I actually like this kind of timing window kind of gameplay.

I prefer all around balance myself.

[ArcherofAiur]

I prefer all around balance myself.

Timing builds were in SC1 the most balanced RTS of all time. The only way your getting exactly same strength at exactly the same time is if you make them exactly the same. Not only that but its boring. Starcraft is much better off with staggered advantages. It complements the fast paced nature of the game and contributes to the back and forth gameplay style.