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Thread: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

  1. #1
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    Ok so...I know Blizzard wanted a powerful "Terran" enemy for Raynor to face, but did they have to make the Dominion the "all-powerful enemy" after the beating they took in Brood War? SC Episode One, you have Mengsk becoming emperor of his newly established Dominion. Afterwards the Dominion only makes a few cameos with Duke sending a small force to Char, but then Brood War comes around and the Dominion is absolutely dominated on all fronts.


    1) The UED literally steamroll right into the Dominion capital and take control; forcing Mengsk to go on the run.

    2) Mengsk rounds up whats left of his Dominion forces to retake Korhal from the UED, but those forces are killed when Kerrigan decides that it's time to make her allies expendable; even killing Duke. Sounds like at this point that Mengsk has nothing left to fight with.

    3) Mengsk then makes a final appearance, saying he called in many favors to put together a ragtag fleet of mercenaries; makes it sound like hes a man whos on his last straw to try to regain everything he had before the UED takeover. And of course, that fleet is eventually destroyed as well; leaving Mengsk with absolutely nothing left.


    But now...you got Wings of Liberty. You can literally skip from the original Starcraft to Wings of Liberty and not realize that there was a game between the two that put the Dominion on the verge of complete annihilation. The difference is THAT BAD. From the very start of Wings of Liberty, Mengsk is the all-powerful emperor again, and the Dominion still look like the powerful faction that they were at the end of Rebel Yell; not even a single sign of rebuilding from Brood War.

    So where did all this sudden military strength between Brood War and Wings of Liberty come from?

    How is it that a man who lost everything is all of a sudden powerful again with absolutely NO explanation?


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    Last edited by RetlocLive; 03-15-2012 at 06:16 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    Well, was the army really that big? (apart from char army)
    Felt like it was pretty easy to infiltrate and strike at key points when you attacked the dominion.

    Confused about char though then I highly agree, I thought it was like impossible to do an assault on char like that in it's current state. Kerrigan having the stronger force after Brood War and then preparing another 4 years.
    We'll see in HotS, maybe they are like trapped and only Kerrigan herself can stop the zerg forces to overwhelm them all. But then again we had that artifact killing every zerg in a huge area..... hm...

  3. #3
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    The Dominion got absolutely steamrolled in Brood War, yet we're led to believe that this is the SAME faction that somehow stalls a Zerg invasion that had FOUR YEARS to gain more strength while the Dominion had to rebuild. Then this same Dominion successfully assults Char with just half of a fleet that were led to believe was supposedly rebuilt during the four years between Brood War and Wings of Liberty.

    The "It's Been Four Years" excuse does NOT jusfity all the strength the Dominion supposedly regained from the Brood War beating. Yet sadly, it's all there is.

    It's like i said before... the beating they took throughout Brood War might as well not even exist.

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    Last edited by RetlocLive; 03-15-2012 at 06:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    The fact that "billions of people" died, korhal has billions of people on it, and that the Dominion is always unveiling new battlecruisers & war machines indicates that they are extremely strong, far stronger than the beatings they took should logically allow them to be.

    The extended fiction also shows that the Umojan Protectorate & KMC are still not as powerful militarily as the Dominion. The KMC has been raking in cash throughout all of Brood War. Really, the only setbacks they ever suffered was when Kerrigan led that fuel raid. Apart from that, they should be the strongest faction in the sector.

    Like Turalyon said, Wings of Liberty is just a euphemism for the approach Blizzard's writing staff were told to take when forming the story.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    More a general response than any particular one, but:

    -The Dominion was dominated on a few select fronts, such as Braxis and Korhal. Essentially the plan was to cut off the head of the beast (Mengsk) and use the zerg as a pacifying force. There's essentially a lot of manpower around in the Koprulu Sector, but I think Mengsk was still in the process of consolidating it, hence without being in a position of power, couldn't really call on it bar mutual interest (Kerrigan). The DEC and the Umojan tension are two examples.

    -The Brood War decimated everyone. The zerg were in the strongest position at the end of it, but sufferred heavy casualties from the UED and even more from the zerg themselves such as in the Char invasion. Everyone has to start from ground zero effectively.

    -War drives industry and inovation. Sad fact, but true. Stuff like the Banshee and Viking are examples of this on the terran front. It's not so much a case of industry and innovation coming from nowhere, but rather applying the required time for it. Heck, the groundwork is already there in most cases (e.g. the Wyrm being a 'missing link' between the Goliath and Viking). It was established in Ghost Academy that the Dominion effectively had its own 'great leap forward' in rebuilding as well from 2501 to 2502. Takes until at least 2503 for it to be fully implemented (e.g. how Valerian had to rely on old technology at first, but could apply the newer technology at Ehlna when the Dominion proper was involved, and how Minotaurs recieved upgrades in the same year).

    -I can't comment too much on the KMC or UP, considering that comparatively less is known about them. Still, I can understand why they're not powerhouses, as the UP has the smallest population of the 'big three' and while the KMC probably has an abundance of manpower, I'd wager that it has problems applying it. Its guild divisions probably don't make things easy, and its irregular armed forces no doubt contributed to its loss in the Guild Wars. Again, the Dominion basically encompasses all of the Confederacy's former territory, while the KMC had to start from scratch after the Guild Wars.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    The only way I can fancon a possible reason for the maintained Terran military strength is that the source of it must be concentrated (or dispersed even) and situated elsewhere. When Mengsk took control and became Emperor and with the UED doing the same to Mengsk, their strikes were largely surgical and directed at their "homeworlds" (Tarsonis and Korhal respectively). While the homeworlds would have a substantial standing military presence (obviously, to protect the most important aspect of Terran society - their governments), maybe the actual source of their military strength is spread out across many different worlds.

    When Mengsk and the UED took control of the "homeworlds", maybe large sections of this military complex would then be subsumed to their authority. So while the inherent populations of the core homeworlds are depleted, the multiple military complexes are not and can therefore carry on with business as usual thereby rebuilding and maintaining their overall military strength.

    Then again, this doesn't really explain how Korhal became a paradise in 4 years, how the Terran presence (I'm not just talking about numbers, mind you) in the K sector became so large or why the KMC/ Umojan Protectorate didn't take take advantage of such a setup. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    It is also possible that Mengsk is running a permanent war economy.

    A war economy is essentially where all economic productivity is directed by the government towards war production. It is capable of producing fearsome military forces in short periods of time.

    The most obvious example is the Soviet Union, which was able to produce armed forces way stronger than their relatively small economies would suggest was possible. Britain, Germany and the other states involved in WW2 did essentially the same thing (though the effort by the US was, proportional to the size of the US economy, much less severe).

    Dictators like it because it gives them control but it has long term consequences. After some years the economy starts to falter, large debts accrue and innovation is squelched.

  8. #8

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    Quote Originally Posted by RetlocLive View Post
    Ok so...I know Blizzard wanted a powerful "Terran" enemy for Raynor to face, but did they have to make the Dominion the "all-powerful enemy" after the beating they took in Brood War? SC Episode One, you have Mengsk becoming emperor of his newly established Dominion. Afterwards the Dominion only makes a few cameos with Duke sending a small force to Char, but then Brood War comes around and the Dominion is absolutely dominated on all fronts.


    1) The UED literally steamroll right into the Dominion capital and take control; forcing Mengsk to go on the run.
    According to Story So Far (page 4), Kerrigan helped Mengsk recover his fleet. Of course, she lay the hurt on Korhal, but she didn't kill Mengsk; she left him alone.

    nce Raynor and the protoss had been willing to listen, she had asked them to rescue Emperor Mengsk and the battle-scarred remnants of the Dominion fleet from the UED’s assault.
    2) Mengsk rounds up whats left of his Dominion forces to retake Korhal from the UED, but those forces are killed when Kerrigan decides that it's time to make her allies expendable; even killing Duke. Sounds like at this point that Mengsk has nothing left to fight with.
    No, Mengsk didn't lose everything. Just everything on the map

    3) Mengsk then makes a final appearance, saying he called in many favors to put together a ragtag fleet of mercenaries; makes it sound like hes a man whos on his last straw to try to regain everything he had before the UED takeover. And of course, that fleet is eventually destroyed as well; leaving Mengsk with absolutely nothing left.
    Mind you, Story So Far is newer, but it seems like Mengsk has been safeguarding his own forces.

    But now...you got Wings of Liberty. You can literally skip from the original Starcraft to Wings of Liberty and not realize that there was a game between the two that put the Dominion on the verge of complete annihilation. The difference is THAT BAD. From the very start of Wings of Liberty, Mengsk is the all-powerful emperor again, and the Dominion still look like the powerful faction that they were at the end of Rebel Yell; not even a single sign of rebuilding from Brood War.
    Not a single sign? That's what happens when you wait a decade between games. Blizzard has been up-front that the Dominion has been rebuilding, inventing new technologies, etc.

    So where did all this sudden military strength between Brood War and Wings of Liberty come from?

    How is it that a man who lost everything is all of a sudden powerful again with absolutely NO explanation?


    ---------------
    He didn't.

    1) Mengsk has forces all over the Dominion, which is big.
    2) Mengsk's forces are so dispersed, he keeps a strategic reserve "out there" somewhere rather than defending each planet. When the UED invaded Braxis, they could steamroll the opposition as they had a day or two before the Dominion could respond with reinforcements.
    3) Mengsk loses big time on Korhal. As Korhal would have a large number of forces, this is his first big loss of troops.
    4) Kerrigan helps Mengsk get his fleet back before striking at the UED. (This is mentioned in Story So Far, not the game, and we don't know where that fleet was, if it had been captured by the UED, etc.)
    5) Kerrigan humiliates Mengsk, but after Raynor disses her, she gets tired of the slaughter and leaves.
    6) Mengsk collects a fleet of non-Dominion forces (the type already motivated to kill Kerriga) and attacks Kerrigan. She kicks its butt. Mengsk must owe a lot of money.
    7) In Mercenaries I (the flavor text associated with the map) the Dominion was said to be too weak to regulate that conflict ... until now. Even then, Mengsk hires mercenaries (namely, you, the player character) rather than sending in his own forces.
    8) Kerrigan specifically leaves Mengsk alone, intending to tackle him later, partly out of revenge, and partly out of fear of the future. (She apparently had some very limited knowledge of the hybrids.) This is also referenced in the Dark Templar Saga, where a year before StarCraft II, she decides to get ready to attack the Dominion again.
    9) By the Dark Templar Saga, the Dominion is kicking some butt. They were powerful enough to defeat Ethan Stewart's forces. They can't win a pitched battle with the protoss yet though, withdrawing rather than getting their tech trashed.

    Following the Brood War, the Dominion's military was still weak. It was unable to deal militarily with problems such as the New Trinidad Pirates, eventually resorting to hiring mercenaries to destroy them.[32]

    Years later, the Dominion had partially rebuilt its armies and would attempt to re-establish its empire by reconquering worlds.[15]

    The Dominion became the most powerful terran force in the Koprulu Sector, having taken over many of the former Confederacy's worlds,[27] but is currently opposed by the Umojan Protectorate and Kel-Morian Combine. It fears Infested Kerrigan and her zerg, who have been "too quiet" over the past four years.[33]

    The Dominion engaged in an economic conflict with the Combine. The latter would sabotage Dominion operations.[34]
    During this time, the Dominion created new weapons of war, like the Odin. The next most powerful forces, the KMC and UP, were too afraid to directly combat it. (The UP specifically mentioned this in Orientation, a story that took place in 2500, the same year as the Brood War, but afterward.)

    The Dominion's resources include loads of planets with loads of people (the Dominion could withstand losses of billions of people; while the UED has more people, the terran population is still quite large;* other than Tarsonis and a few zapped planets which were usually evacuated, the Confederacy didn't actually lose that many people, and were taken out by a decapitation strike), neural resocialization (they actually reduced the percentage, although that could be propaganda), fear (keeping people scared of the zerg and protoss is a great way to recruit troops; the Confederacy went to war with the zerg for only a few months before it got defeated by a WMD launched by a terran!) and a relentless drive to increase their technology.

    It's quite possible the Dominion has a large but poorly trained army, as many experienced troops were killed four years ago.

    *Expanding onto entire empty planets with modern (or futuristic) medical knowledge would allow faster population growth than was ever recorded in human history. Growth rates on Earth have never been so high, because by the time the germ theory of disease was developed, most habitable areas were already populated.
    Last edited by Kimera757; 03-17-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rake View Post
    It is also possible that Mengsk is running a permanent war economy.

    A war economy is essentially where all economic productivity is directed by the government towards war production. It is capable of producing fearsome military forces in short periods of time.

    The most obvious example is the Soviet Union, which was able to produce armed forces way stronger than their relatively small economies would suggest was possible. Britain, Germany and the other states involved in WW2 did essentially the same thing (though the effort by the US was, proportional to the size of the US economy, much less severe).

    Dictators like it because it gives them control but it has long term consequences. After some years the economy starts to falter, large debts accrue and innovation is squelched.
    Same thing happens in ME3, and it's even mentioned that if the war lasts over a year, the economy will start to fall.

    Kudos to Arkceangel for the Terran avatar and sig!

  10. #10
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: How is the Dominion "Powerful" in WoL?

    Not a single sign? That's what happens when you wait a decade between games. Blizzard has been up-front that the Dominion has been rebuilding, inventing new technologies, etc.
    4 years game-world time isn't exactly what I call...a decade...nor does it explain how the Dominion even has the strength and resources to invent new technologies and war machines (especially now with their cashcow from the KML supposedly breaking away from the Dominion). Or why people large enough to form an empire would even want to continue to follow Mengsk after he clearly couldn't handle the position the Dominion was stuck in during Brood War.

    Everyone seems to be depending on the theory that Mengsk seems to keep a large force stored somewhere or that his forces are spread out amongst all worlds controlled by the Dominion. Wouldn't you think that THESE are the men Mengsk rounded up to retake Korhal in the mission Duke was killed? It was a mission to retake the Dominion Capital world; I think that's a good enough reason to round up who you could.

    And if he had men stored somewhere then why would he have to depend on calling a bunch of random mercenaries to form a ragtag fleet to fight Kerrigan in the final battle? It's because he already called in those men he had in storage already for the retaking Korhal mission, which were killed off; causing Mengsk to resort to hiring mercenary groups.

    His rise in Rebel Yell, to his downward fall in Brood War made sense; his sudden rise to power again with no explanation in WoL, other then a few occassions of rebuilding from book lore that barely anyone has acually read, does not.

    In-game, no signs of rebuilding were showen. I'm expected to believe that based on what was told in-game, Mengsk is all-powerful on day one (Rebel Yell). Then day two comes around and he has the ever-living shyt beaten out of him (Brood War). Just for day three to come by and hes all perfectly healthy again and is back on top of everyone(Wings of Liberty). The books can say all they want about the Dominion rebuilding during that 4 year intermission, but do we really have to read the books just to understand something in the game that doesn't make sense?; That SHOULD of been mentioned at some point in-game? At least then I wouldn't be questioning how Mengsk went from the bottom of the barrel to all-powerful again over the 4 year timeskip.

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    Last edited by RetlocLive; 03-17-2012 at 01:20 PM.

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