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Thread: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

  1. #91

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    1.) Raynor and Valerian only guessed at what it meant and given that Kerrigan wanted it, there's probably more to the thing than meets the eye. If anything, they knew that it would decimate her army, but hoped that it would deinfest her. If the trailer is any indication they were partially right. The artifact didn't fully purge the zerg dna, but it did do enough purging to allow the restraints on her morality and other positive attributes to be shattered.

    2.) One thing that bugs me is the fact that in Eye of the storm it's possible to have a shitload of troops around the over mind as you win, yet tassadar still says you have heavy damage. In that case we believe Tassadar. Yet when Raynor in WOL says it's a tough fight we don't buy it. That seemed like a bit of a double standard. In WOL we don't take them at face value when they say it's hard, yet in 1 and BW we do.

    Admittedly the following theory is guess work but I'll pitch it anyway. I will need to explain plot similarities from Ghost in the Shell to make the analogy work.

    In the climax, the puppet master program reveals that he seeks to merge with the protagonist Kusanagi, to create a new program (Which is what the xel'naga wished the protoss and zerg to do.) The Puppet master does do violent things to live during the film, but when he comes face to face with the person he seeks to merge with, he is diplomatic and doesn't try to strong-arm her. He states his arguments, and leaves the choice to her. She ultimately consents willingly and they merge. My guess is that the OM had a similar plan prior to the Dark Voice. He would have been willing to violently assimilate others to achieve perfection, but when it came to meet the protoss he may have been willing to try a more diplomatic approach to persuade them (and yes there was a chance it wouldn't work, but it's still worth a shot and it's better than not trying at all.) I believe that the Dark voice simply took what was already there and modified it to suit his own ends. The Overmind is amoral and willing to ensure the survival of his race, but he's not a monster who wishes to kill and destroy because he's an egomaniac. This would allow the Dark voice to fit better while allowing the Overmind to maintain his character.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Also, why can't a fallen hero actually achieve redemption in a blizzard game? Most of the ones in other games stayed evil and were damned (arthas, the wanderer, Deathwing, Sargeras). Why can't one of these guys actually achieve redemption for once and make amends? Also, Kerrigan's life has been pure hell. She deserves an honestly happy ending (Arthas was falling before he picked up frostmourne)

  3. #93

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    Also, why can't a fallen hero actually achieve redemption in a blizzard game? Most of the ones in other games stayed evil and were damned (arthas, the wanderer, Deathwing, Sargeras). Why can't one of these guys actually achieve redemption for once and make amends? Also, Kerrigan's life has been pure hell. She deserves an honestly happy ending (Arthas was falling before he picked up frostmourne)
    I, personally, am not saying she can't achieve some form of redemption. I just want it done tastefully.

    If Blizzard can do that, I wouldn't mind at all. Unfortunately, they're on a terrible track...

  4. #94

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    I know this is an old topic, but if you were seriously hoping for something clever storywise after you heard "Raynor! The artifacts are the key!" during the the trailers, I'm not sure what to tell you. :P I enjoyed the SC2 single player and all of the storylines and presentation, mostly as if it was a movie + gameplay experience. The ending, on the other hand, was complete garbage. A fan fiction writer could have done a much better job than those so-called professional writers could have, trying to put a period on the end of a lingering 10 year old sentence.

    I know Kerrigan's presentation killed your boner and Tassadar coming back from the spirit world killed Lord of Ascension's boner too. The real question is what killed Gifted's boner, imo. That's a real chin-picker of a question, if I do say so myself!

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Asfastasican View Post
    I know this is an old topic, but if you were seriously hoping for something clever storywise after you heard "Raynor! The artifacts are the key!" during the the trailers, I'm not sure what to tell you. :P
    Don't really recall anybody saying that. And I don't see how this is an excuse that we should somehow lower our standards for video game stories.

    I enjoyed the SC2 single player and all of the storylines and presentation, mostly as if it was a movie + gameplay experience. The ending, on the other hand, was complete garbage. A fan fiction writer could have done a much better job than those so-called professional writers could have, trying to put a period on the end of a lingering 10 year old sentence.
    What did you like about the rest of the campaign's story then?

    I know Kerrigan's presentation killed your boner and Tassadar coming back from the spirit world killed Lord of Ascension's boner too. The real question is what killed Gifted's boner, imo. That's a real chin-picker of a question, if I do say so myself!
    If I see Gifted I will ask him for you.

  6. #96

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    1.) Raynor and Valerian only guessed at what it meant and given that Kerrigan wanted it, there's probably more to the thing than meets the eye. If anything, they knew that it would decimate her army, but hoped that it would deinfest her. If the trailer is any indication they were partially right. The artifact didn't fully purge the zerg dna, but it did do enough purging to allow the restraints on her morality and other positive attributes to be shattered.
    (inafter he refers to moral restraints as 'positive' attributes lolcakes etc etc)

    It was already confirmed that the artifact didn't uninfest Kerrigan when the Blizzard story team released a notice saying "THE ARTIFACT DOESN'T DO WHAT YOU THINK IT DOES!", and the fact that the Zerg campaign actually revolves around a Kerrigan that is very much infested-looking (just not to the previous extents) proves that she is still infested.

    Blizzard now seems focused on painting Kerrigan as even more ruthless and bitchy in Heart of the Swarm, so your contention that she's regained some humanity isn't really held up anywhere. Of course we have to wait for the game to release, but you're inferring things you should not be able to infer just by looking at trailers and information available to us at this point. My advice to you is to stop inferring these things; you will be disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    2.) One thing that bugs me is the fact that in Eye of the storm it's possible to have a shitload of troops around the over mind as you win, yet tassadar still says you have heavy damage. In that case we believe Tassadar. Yet when Raynor in WOL says it's a tough fight we don't buy it. That seemed like a bit of a double standard. In WOL we don't take them at face value when they say it's hard, yet in 1 and BW we do.
    I don't know who you're referencing here, but if I'm playing a campaign and there's no way I'm feasibly going to lose all of my army, then I laugh my ass off at any character who says "we are taking heavy losses!" See my Fall From Grace let's play for more on that.

    I think that the problem people have with Wings of Liberty's so-called 'hopeless moments' is that there is no real way that they are really hopeless. Every mission ends with Raynor being painted as the good guy, naturally or artificially, and with Raynor claiming victory. The issue is execution, which affects believability.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Pr0nogo View Post

    PROTOSS CAMPAIGN
    Kerrigan learns extremely essential information about the Dark Templar and what remains of the Conclave, as well as their game plan for exterminating Zerg and rebuilding. This information is used later on, in the Zerg campaign. Smart!
    Kerrigan infests Raszagal, the leader of the Dark Templar, and uses her to manipulate her people into doing her wishes. She does not lose any warriors in doing this, but gains an extremely valuable asset. Smart!


    TERRAN CAMPAIGN
    Kerrigan infests Duran behind the scenes and has him join the UED, making him the Swarm's contact within this powerful new Terran faction. Now she can monitor what the UED is doing and plan her attacks on Mengsk accordingly. Smart!

    Kerrigan acquires intelligence as to the whereabouts and strength of the new Overmind, and finds out that it is now the UED's pet. Smart!

    ZERG CAMPAIGN
    Kerrigan uses Jim Raynor and Mengsk to fight against the UED, which are now a threat to all parties involved. This works extremely well and helps her knock the UED down to size, all the while preventing the Dominion, Fenix, and Raynor from realising her true colours. Smart!
    Kerrigan betrays the Dominion and Fenix's Protoss, killing both General Duke and Praetor Fenix in one blow. While this blows her cover, it also allows her to deal massive blows to her enemies and knock them down to size, as well, making it really easy for her to mop them up. Smart!
    Kerrigan uses the Dark Templar to destroy the newborn Overmind, all the while orchestrating things from behind the scenes via her asset - the infested Raszagal.
    Kerrigan loses her asset to Zeratul's blades after the cover was already blown by Zeratul's intellect (not because either party was stupid!). This is bad news for her, but if her cover was blown, Raszagal no longer has any worth and now has no hope of becoming uninfested or returning to lead her people, dealing a massive blow to Protoss morale. Smart!
    While he might've gone a bit far in calling Kerrigan a complete idiot in Broodwar, he does have a point in attributing Kerrigan's gains in BW more to the stupidity of her allies rather than any exceptional brilliance on her part. Case in point:

    Kerrigan slays Aldaris after he attacks the Dark Templar. This is to prevent him from speaking the truth about her. Smart! The only reason this ends up working against her is because Zeratul (and by extension, Artanis, since Zeratul informs him) is too damn smart for her (read as: not stupid, opposite of what you said).
    The stupidity here is in Zeratul and Artanis allowing Kerrigan to leave Shakuras alive after pulling a stunt like that. In a similar situation, I hardly imagine Mengsk or Dugalle saying 'Begone!' You are no longer welcome among us! I'd imagine them immediately ordering her killed on the spot, or at least making an honest effort to do so. If despite their best efforts Kerrigan still managed to escape that'd be another story.

    Kerrigan has Duran assassinate Vice Admiral Stukov, arguably the smartest member of the UED. This deals a critical blow to the UED before they really become a threat to Kerrigan. Smart!
    Dugalle immediately makes it known he neither likes nor trusts Duran, yet throughout the campaign, immediately values his word/advice over that of his closest friend and comrade, who'd been with him through decades and who's judgement and advice up till that point had proved nothing but sagacious. Even going so far as to have Stukov killed based on little more than heresay, without even giving him an opportunity to explain himself.

    Kerrigan betrays the Dominion and Fenix's Protoss, killing both General Duke and Praetor Fenix in one blow. While this blows her cover, it also allows her to deal massive blows to her enemies and knock them down to size, as well, making it really easy for her to mop them up. Smart!
    They all already realize that Kerrigan can't be trusted and will very likely end up betraying them all as soon as they've served their purpose, yet they all have the brilliant idea to let their guard down and allow their armies to
    rest right under her nose, leaving them wide open to a massive surprise buttsecking of their entire assault forces. Raynor at least has some excuse of being some lost, lovesick puppy but Fenix and Mengsk really have none.

  8. #98

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    It seems to me that both Sc1 and Sc2 have their fair share of "plot induced stupidity". That's always going to be a given when working with sci-fi universes.

    The most important issue in Wol's "story" is that there really isn't any story at all throughout the length of campaign. What I mean by that is that there is no narrative structure to it. WoL seemingly "starts" at the end of something that seems important (Raynor seemingly being defeated by Mengsk and being depressed) and from which we are not divulged of any further background information (in game or otherwise) so we're already on the backfoot. It then begins with Tychus introducing the concept of getting money and then meanders (further exacerbated by the problem of choosing your own path) to various sideplots that have no bearing ultimately to the story aside from the gathering of money. The only consistent theme of this bare-bones narrative strand is this quest for money.

    It's great to try and characterise Raynor and co. through these sidetrack mission but unlike and contrasted with, say, the loyalty missions of your squad mates in Mass Effect 2 (simplistic as it is), the character missions of WoL don't serve any narrative function or have any pay-off for the story as a whole. In terms of plot importance, the strongest sideplot (note that it is not the mainplot which it has been falsely hinted at to be) appears to be the Mengsk one (Horner's missions). The money gaining narrative, slim as it is, actually fits well with it ending up with Raynor tackling Mengsk head-on since Raynor "starts" off WoL with Mengsk being his main problem. Unfortunately, the resolution of it is just as inconsequential (Raynor and Horner happy and Mengsk sweats a little on TV but then just resumes sitting comfortably on his imperial throne) as the other sideplots narratively speaking despite its seeming importance in the SC2 universe plotwise. Major dissonance starts to happen here.

    The endgame then just lurches into view with the only "introduction" to it being from Valerian's plot reveal of the artifacts. On a narrative level, a few things come to mind: the story actually appears to be "starting" again here (for it then to quickly end - which is another matter entirely) as it bears no relation to what has come before - WoL could just have easily started from this point of Raynor aiming for Kerrigan. Due to it's seemingly overwhelming purpose/importance, one has to consider why the preamble (the odd 20 or so missions leading to it) to this moment is so long and for the most part inconsequential.

    Much like Raynor's "start" in WoL story, another "start" to the story is unceremoniously foisted on without adequate context because it literally comes out of left-field with Valerian's revelation of what the artifacts can suddenly do. When WoL ends, we're left with a confused map of how Raynor got from A (Raynor on the verge of defeat from his one-true enemy Mengsk) to B (saving the entire sector from Zerg by knee-capping them as well as regaining his lost love). Personal taste aside, the last few missions have a sense of urgency and narrative flow that is missing in all the other missions, seen as whole, combined. The problem with the length of this resolution is that it doesn't match-up with what was just done to get to this point. So much plot important stuff was done so quickly with a definitive resolution (Kerrigan saved!) but leading up to it we did some stuff that may or may not be plot important with incomplete resolutions (the Mengsk one is, in particular, a let-down) but for some reason took much longer...

    The other logical inconsistencies regarding the SC universe itself that others have put forward (of which there will always be considering the material) just make the above problems worse.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 03-01-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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  9. #99

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    IIRC, nicol bolas once described WOL best as: 'A mishmash of disconnected plot threads culminating in a non-ending.'

    That being said, even a slightly greater feeling of consequence and urgency regarding choices made during much of the 'filler' campaign would've gone a long way to a greater sense of cohesiveness to the overall story arc. The all-in mission being directly affected by a choice made as to the previous mission(s) is an example of what should've been done throughout the campaign.
    Last edited by phazonjunkie; 03-01-2012 at 04:59 AM.

  10. #100

    Default Re: Why the SC2 Story Was a Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonjunkie View Post
    Dugalle immediately makes it known he neither likes nor trusts Duran, yet throughout the campaign, immediately values his word/advice over that of his closest friend and comrade, who'd been with him through decades and who's judgement and advice up till that point had proved nothing but sagacious. Even going so far as to have Stukov killed based on little more than heresay, without even giving him an opportunity to explain himself.
    It's implied right before Stukov is killed in that briefing the Duran was mind-controlling DuGalle, or at least influencing his thoughts. You can hear him use his echoey hybrid voice (from Dark Origin)for a split second in that briefing.

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