TeamLiquid.net Article: Zerg & Larva Injection

[ArcherofAiur]

They're trying to make it more important.

...by limiting it.

sigh sometimes I think you guys just love to argue.

[Pandonetho]

...by limiting it.

sigh sometimes I think you guys just love to argue.

There's a difference between the two though. "They're trying to make it more important" goes beyond just limiting it. Limiting it is just one route.

"They're trying to limit it" doesn't exactly outline their goal. Limiting it isn't the only way to make it important. Also, limiting it doesn't require any trying, you just limit it...

[Santrega]

What's wrong with delayed attack? It's the same as Flame Strike in WC3, and so far it's good.

For me i'm good with the change. Anticipation should be something important in competitive sport.

The problem with a delayed attack is the fact when you make a decision to use an ability, its usually because you've seen a situation where that ability will be good for. Things change so quickly in starcraft that even a second delay will cause the scenario that you are looking at to be not so appealing anymore.

It's very hard to anticipate which omnidirectional choice your enemy is going to decide on after he sees your High Templar. I would much rather use an ability thats weak and have the effect I want happen instantly when I see a good time to use it, rather than having something be really strong but completely miss what I was going for. That's the whole point of Real-time. Its not that you wont have to wait for something, because obviously you have to wait until you get to an enemy unit or base to be able to kill something belonging to your enemy. The part that makes this delay retarded for a real-time strategy game is your decisions are suppose to happen instantly, not wait for a certain period of time first.

The person that mentioned unit queue would have a better analogy if he said there was a delay between you clicking build, and the building actually starting to build the unit, which there isnt.

[Nicol Bolas]

Things change so quickly in starcraft that even a second delay will cause the scenario that you are looking at to be not so appealing anymore.

Yes. That's why it's a nerf. That doesn't explain why it's bad.

So you have to anticipate when using Psi Storm. Personally, I like it. It makes it more of a skill than just your ability to click. You have to scout your enemy's forces; you have to know in advance when they're coming in. And so on. It can't just be used as a purely reactionary "murder stuff now" ability.

And again, the delay is not that long.

The part that makes this delay retarded for a real-time strategy game is your decisions are suppose to happen instantly, not wait for a certain period of time first.

Total nonsense. Any number of decisions in an RTS game take a while to manifest. That's the entire basis of a timing attack: you're attacking someone at a point where they've made some decision, but the benefits of that decision have not yet materialized. They started the Dragoon Range upgrade, but it isn't finished yet. And so on.

Reaper mines have a delay between laying them and them exploding. Yamato has always had a delay between when you tell it to fire and when it actually does. And so on.

The person that mentioned unit queue would have a better analogy if he said there was a delay between you clicking build, and the building actually starting to build the unit, which there isnt.

Um, why? It still takes a fixed quantity of time for the unit to be built. Just as it takes a fixed quantity of time for Yamato Cannon to be fired. Just as it takes a fixed quantity of time for Psi Storm to be cast. Just as it takes a fixed quantity of time for a SC1 Dragoon to fire its weapon (between the moment you tell it to fire and the bolt actually launches). Hell, there are many attacks that take time between the firing and when the bullet actually hits. Some don't take time (Marines, Hydras, etc), but some do (Goliath missiles, Turrets, Photon Canons, etc).

How is this any different?

[Norfindel]

People... it's a damn fixed-area damage-over-time spell. It must not have any pre-casting delay... Seriously, this is very basic stuff.

I'll try to explain it better: pre-casting delays are commonly used when a spell does instant effect and/or cannot be avoided in any way, like Spawn Broodlings. That's to give the enemy player a chance to see what's coming, and try to do something about it, like killing the caster, or something.

Used in a spell like Psi Storm doesn't makes any sense, as you would need to predict where the enemy units would be after the dumb delay, and because the spell can already be dodged.

If you want to make Psi Storm less destructive, you can lower the damage and/or spread it over a larger amount of time, so it's easier to dodge the effects.

Adding a delay just masks the player's skill, makes the spell unwieldy, instead of weaker, and introduces a luck factor.

[deadlock]

^^ yeah this exactly. imagine how much of a bitch it will be to aim with lag.

[DemolitionSquid]

My last, deleted post was not meant to be inflammatory. It is quite clear to myself and many others that Archer has a severe lack of the concepts of semantics and logical follow-through. If someone could help me explain to him these concepts it would benefit everyone here.

[Nicol Bolas]

I'll try to explain it better: pre-casting delays are commonly used when a spell does instant effect and/or cannot be avoided in any way, like Spawn Broodlings. That's to give the enemy player a chance to see what's coming, and try to do something about it, like killing the caster, or something.

Except that that's totally untrue. Spawn Broodling's delay is in how long it takes the little shot to reach the target, not how long it takes for that shot to be fired. Once the shot is fired, the target is guaranteed to die. The target might be able to do something in that time (fire off a Psi Storm at its killer, etc). But it will die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

The same thing goes for Yamato. BCs are a 500 Hp monster; one additional second is very unlikely to give you the time you need to kill it (unless you're using Yamato yourself, or some other high-damage attack).

Used in a spell like Psi Storm doesn't makes any sense, as you would need to predict where the enemy units would be after the dumb delay, and because the spell can already be dodged.

No, the spell can't be dodged. What can happen is that you can mitigate some of its effects by moving some of the units out of the way once it's fired. But when Psi Storm happens, units will take damage. Just as sure as the unit Yamato targets will get hit, or as sure as the unit Broodling targets will die. Units that are under the area of Psi Storm will be hurt. Units in the center of that area are similarly guaranteed to be hurt more. There is nothing that you can do to avoid that damage entirely.

What this delay does is make Psi Storm less effective against fast movers like Zerglings and Mutalisks. It makes it something that is best used against ranged ground units, rather than a general purpose "kill everything" spell. It also makes the Protoss player more careful in their use of Psi Storm; they need to scout the enemy more and see attacks coming from farther away to counter-balance the delay. This is good. It focuses the effect on particular kinds of units.

Adding a delay just masks the player's skill, makes the spell unwieldy, instead of weaker, and introduces a luck factor.

What luck? There's no random effect happening. The delay is a fixed length, and thus easily predictable by both sides.

And how does it mask skill? It just requires different skills. Rather than firing it at where your Zerglings are and auto-hitting them, I must now predict where your Zerglings will be. Or maybe I just use smart-cast and blanket the area with mass Psi Storm.

yeah this exactly. imagine how much of a bitch it will be to aim with lag.

I don't see what the problem is. What is intrinsically wrong with being "a bitch" to aim with?

[RamiZ]

I agree with Nicol, Psi Storm is now even stronger, but you got to know when will you use it, otherwise you will miss. And with Smart Casting it is easy to cast 10 Storms and kills whole Zerg army so this change is needed. And I agree they could lower the damage, but Blizzard wanted Psi Storm to be the same as SC1, incredibly strong weapon in hands of good player.

[ArcherofAiur]

lol someday people will realize just how beneficial the "outdated UI" was to Starcraft 1 gamplay. Not saying it needs to stay for Starcraft 2 but there were allot of positive things that came out of having to "fight the UI."