DemolitionSquid Reviews HotS Multiplayer Changes

[MulletBen]

I'm pretty darn sure the creep covering buildings is purely graphical.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, Dsquid, on the hellion transformer. As you said yourself, units should have use both inside and outside the main army. Because of their lack of health/damage, their speed, and their unique splash radius, they were only really ever good in the main army when they were simultaneously overpowered in their harassment role. This change allows Blizzard to divide the 2 roles so that you get one unit that is versatile because it is effective in 2 different scenarios, while not being to strong in either role. kiting with bio-balls is still just as viable as it once was, and will still be perfectly fine in the mid-game. Late-game, it provides another option for Terran to transition to, possibly forcing the protoss to transition as well, and keeping the game from stagnating on zealot/archon vs. bioball. The hellion transformer will allow it to synergize with the rest of your army better than it could previously, and allow it to take on a role that it was only ever good at when it was overpowered. This, in addition to the addition of the warhound, could easily make mech viable in all matchups.

The warhound is interesting to me. I started out really, really liking this unit, and I still do, but I'm not as happy as I was. Giving the thor's anti-air role to a more mobile unit was a great idea. The thor was the result of trying to put too many roles in one unit. It was a tank unit that could take a ton of damage and push through siege lines and take on zerg swarms, it was a spellcaster that could lock down large enemy units, and it was an AoE mutalisk killer. Unfortunately, fulfilling the tank role needed a big, expensive, slow unit, while the anti-muta role needed a smaller and more nimble platform. The warhound, instead of taking on the tank role, takes an anti-mech role in addition to it's anti-muta abilities. I love the idea of adding different bonuses other than just armored and light. At first I thought this was an amazing idea, and that it, in addition to the battle hellion, would likely make mech play just as viable as bio. Unfortunately, I soon realized that there are still a lot of problems:

1. Marines with stim can kite battle-hellions, making the hellions much less effective vs marines
2. Armored bonus overlaps too much with mechanical. The only ground units that are light-mechanical are hellions, probes and sentries, and the only armored non-mechanical targets are roaches, ultralisks, marauders, and buildings. This makes it much worse against Zerg and bio than thors were, and barely more effective vs. Protoss than marauders. Unless the battle hellion can really pick up the slack, mech seems just as worthless as in WoL
3. Protoss still has way too many options for mech. Immortals and archons can still hard counter factory units. Without the thor's lockdown abilities, taking out these units seems near impossible without getting ghosts, and EMP is in line for a nerf. Without viking support, drops and air units will still be viable, assuming the warhound doesn't do more damage to non-light targets than the thor.

I really hope to see mech being used. Allowing Hellions to both harass and support an army, while sharing upgrades with mech, is super cool. A more mobile thor with anti-mechanical abilities is great in concept, but I'm not sure how well it will work in practice. One thing I haven't mentioned yet is the shredder, another factory unit that could help mech players lock down expansions with a less mobile army. I don't know if you guys have seen the gameplay Q&A, but apparently their damage, like psi-storm, doesn't stack, so you won't be able to set up a huge number of them and kill everything. While I don't think Terran really needs more zone control, seeing as they already have the best in the game, it should prove an interesting unit.

They better change the warhound model, though. The amount the artists and designers seemed to like the design was unnerving.

[DemolitionSquid]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, Dsquid, on the hellion transformer. As you said yourself, units should have use both inside and outside the main army. Because of their lack of health/damage, their speed, and their unique splash radius, they were only really ever good in the main army when they were simultaneously overpowered in their harassment role. This change allows Blizzard to divide the 2 roles so that you get one unit that is versatile because it is effective in 2 different scenarios, while not being to strong in either role. kiting with bio-balls is still just as viable as it once was, and will still be perfectly fine in the mid-game. Late-game, it provides another option for Terran to transition to, possibly forcing the protoss to transition as well, and keeping the game from stagnating on zealot/archon vs. bioball. The hellion transformer will allow it to synergize with the rest of your army better than it could previously, and allow it to take on a role that it was only ever good at when it was overpowered. This, in addition to the addition of the warhound, could easily make mech viable in all matchups.

First, I think its in our best interests to acknowledge the Battle Hellion is a Campaign Firebat. Now, I want you to consider this. You have the fastest unit in the game, with a very strong anti-light attack, that can then become a decent tanking unit that also deals very strong anti-light damage. Then try to accept that unit at a cost of 100/0 and available in pairs at a reactor.

Aside from that disturbing thought, Hellions are already viable in a Terran army situation. They are already used as cheap tanks and already fry light units like Zealots and Zerglings in formation. Hellions are not currently overpowered. Giving them this ability to become better in a slow army situation will make them so. The evidence is clear as day.

[MulletBen]

First, I think its in our best interests to acknowledge the Battle Hellion is a Campaign Firebat. Now, I want you to consider this. You have the fastest unit in the game, with a very strong anti-light attack, that can then become a decent tanking unit that also deals very strong anti-light damage. Then try to accept that unit at a cost of 100/0 and available in pairs at a reactor.

Aside from that disturbing thought, Hellions are already viable in a Terran army situation. They are already used as cheap tanks and already fry light units like Zealots and Zerglings in formation. Hellions are not currently overpowered. Giving them this ability to become better in a slow army situation will make them so. The evidence is clear as day.

Blizzard has tools for balancing units. They can adjust the health, attack, movement speed and even cost of the unit. They can make things upgrades, adjust the upgrade cost, and move it around the tech tree. Because they are splitting the 2 roles of the hellion into what is essentially 2 units, it becomes even easier to balance, because they can balance the 2 roles of the hellion separately.

For a while, they saw heavy use in tournaments. Blue-Flame hellions were incredibly effective harassers, able to take out a mineral line in seconds. On top of that, they could even fill in as a decent army unit, with their massive damage to light units making them excellent at timing pushes vs. zerg, and their splash making them great at tearing apart marines. Zealots, on the other hand, were a little too hardy for hellions to stand up to. Zealots just had too much health to melt as quickly as marines or zerglings, and charge severely weakens any kiting ability. That's not even mentioning stalkers and colossi, which tear hellions apart. Still, they saw a lot of success, not as a main army component in TvP, but dropped in the back of mineral lines to try and take out workers.

It was the consensus that Hellions were too strong. They were really strong in early timing pushes, and just 2-3 could destroy your economy in seconds. So blue-flame damage was nerfed, and what happened? The upgrade dropped from the map. No one got enough hellions to justify getting blue-flame in any matchup. It takes the same number of blue-flame hellions to one-shot workers as red-flame. TvT shifted back to marine-tank overnight. And TvP? Back to scouting with factories.

Clearly, Hellions are not viable in armies anymore. The battle-hellion aims to fix that. Personally, I think that it needs to be made an upgrade, maybe even requiring an armory, so that people can't do reactored-batllehellion pushes the way they do reactored-hellion pushes nowadays. Maybe it will make marine/hellion pushes like we saw with blue-flame resurface. But those things don't make it a bad idea. The role gap does exist, and this change offers a potential unit to fill that void. Whether or not they can balance the battlehellion so it fills that role or not is up for grabs, but it'll certainly be easier than trying to fit a fast-moving line-AoE attacker into that role.

[DemolitionSquid]

Frankly, I disagree wholly on your position. From everything I see, Hellions are still used consistently enough for me, even after the Infernal Preigniter nerf. I do not acknowledge this "role gap" you see, and I certainly do not think bringing back the Firebat is an acceptable solution.

[SinsWage]

Is the transformation outlined somewhere? Does it cost to do it per hellion? Is it permanent or can you revert? All of these would make a difference with balance.

[Todie]

BC Speed Boost: I don't particularly support increased Terran speed. Terran push, leapfrog, enforce positions. They have Reapers, Hellions, and Banshees to raid and assert control. Speed Boost will only really be useful in getting BC's to the front line, or chasing retreating Mutalisks. I don't feel that's enough justification for its insertion, regardless of how minor an ability it may be.

Im excited about this. i remember being a huge advocate of a speedboost ability on the mothership back in the day...

i like using BC's as they are, and they're currently fine. But with Tempest, SPEED-hydras and vipers around, its a new ball game! BC is a top tier unit and should remain as viable as currently though this.

This might also add some additional layers to TvT: air domination through vikings is extremely important when BC's start entering the field, the BC's cant quite catch the vikings and yamoto used on a 75 gas unit isnt awesome. a speedbost makes it require more than a superior viking count to stop a big BC onslaught!

Battle Hellion: I do not support this change. The Firebat was removed from multiplayer to be replaced by the more mobile Hellion. Now we're shoehorning it back in? Not cool. The unit seems to fill too many roles - tank, AoE, mobile - all for 100 Minerals. It deplaces the Marauder as the go-to front line support unit. Right now Marines kill Zealots/Zerglings and Marauders kill Stalkers/Roaches. I predict it will swap to Battle Hellion kills Zealots/Zerglings and Marines kill Stalkers/Roaches, leaving far more gas for Terran tech and upgrades to unbalance their progression. Hellions right now are too weak for this, with too direct a stream for such a play. Bringing in the Battle Hellion as essentially the hearty WoL campaign Firebat will regress HotS into SCBW. Also, with the creation of the anti-tank Warhound, I feel there's no niche for the Battle Hellion in that damage absorption aspect either.

i agree wholeheartedly with MulletBen on this issue

Warhound: I have always felt the Thor never reached its potential. It was very Terran as a giant mech, but was nerfed and shoehorned into a ranged tank AA. The Warhound appears to fix all my issues with the Thor - cheaper, smaller, more mobile, more producible. Its anti-siege tank ability is also pleasing to me. Its basically Thor Jr. and I'm content with that.

im not one o nitpick about asthetics, but i must say i dont like the look of this unit.

otehr than that, im very sceptical about its anti-mechanical ground attack, here's an elaboration of that i typed up earlier in the general discussion thread 'my thoughts on the warhound' :

other than looking like crap, i dislike the notion of an attack specialized vs mechanicals too narrow and makes the unit too one-dimensional vs Zerg; it'll surely be quite useless vs any zerg ground units.

... however, the Warhound cant be given bonus to armor instead of mechanical; that 'd make it too similar to marauders. also, tis supposed to be good at breaking tank-lines and such, much like the Thor is, and being a smaller lighter unit, it cant rely on durability to do so.

This situation calls for creativity; i could perhaps buy an attack with bonus to mechanical, but not as its sole signifying trait.

Right now, all i can think of to spice this up is attackspeed; either give it a very fast attack with low damage, like 4+2 vs mechanical (+2 per up to mechanical +1 to others) to let this unit grant continuous fire support, marine style, from its long range of 7, making it very rare for it to waste any shots on overkilling injured low HP enemies. Alternatively, it could go the other way; a High damage attack with a slow reload rate, making sure that when it gets into range (or enemies get into range of it) even front-line Warhounds will get of a good shot before going down. a High damage attack would also combine well with a possible bonus trait to the attack-style that could be the ability to pre-load several shots before or in pauses of combat, adding further to the burst-element of such an attack style. To clarify, this would mean that though the damage is high, the first few shots in a combat would be fired quickly, while the later shots get fired at a slower rate as the 2-3 'pre-loaded' shots run dry.

Nexus Recall: Kiwikaki should be happy about this, and I am too. This is what the Mothership did with Mass Recall, brining units back to base. Cutting out the Mothership middle-man is a clear improvement, letting the ability be used more often.

This will be a powerful ability. powerful as fuck; P players will be able to do tactical moves that were previously considered merely creative ways to commit suicide, especially using warpprisms and all sorts of counterattack tactics; if you are able/allowed to get in past yuor enem army, you'll be able to deal a significant amount of damage to an economy or production line and recall out again - at low low risk. I think this is potentially overpowered.

Nexus Arc Shield: I believe all units and abilities should be useful all game long. Arc Shield does not seem to support this ideology. It may be useful early game, making Pylons and Gateways into 20 second Photon Cannons. But Cannons lose their power late game, and this spell will too. I have no doubt Chrono Boost and Recall will be the better defensive abilities through macro.

Arc shield will be plenty useful later on, especially as there is so much more energy to go around and so much less time to go around fo continually chornoboosting all your production; whenever someone pokes at you, you WILL have some nexus energy available, esp if you have 3+ nexii. Adding free damage at the click of a button is actually always good, and ontop of that, it adds armor (even to shields?) ..... the ability will remain highly useful to deter harassment with. Im not sure i actually like it though. maybe its a bit lame.

Tempest: I feel this unit will be a much better captial ship than the Carrier, but I'm not sold on it. A strong AA presence was needed. No variability in power as Interceptors are created and lost is a blessing. Its a more straight-up unit than the Carrier... but I'm not sure thats a good thing. It feels too much like a Battle Cruiser to me, and I'll have to try it before I can assess if I like that for Protoss.

I agree, im not sure the unit has enough character. Maybe if something interesting was done with its air to ground attack?

Corruptor Ability Change: The Corruptor has always been troubled. It used to turn enemies into turrets. Now its just a nerfed Devourer and a stepping stone to Brood Lords. I have no idea how Blizzard thought its new "Mineral Siphon" ability was a good idea. Leaving your Corruptors in the enemy base to suck minerals from him is just ridiculous. I give this change an F-.

This IDEA is that if the corruper swarm wins the battle for air dominance, while teh zerg player lacks the tech or money to make broodlords, it ujst becomes an embaracing paperweight. At that point, this new siphon ability is arguably better than corruption.

.. my initial reaction was as yours: this sucks. but im not sure now. maybe its OK, especially if all the corrupters can siphon from the same building. ON the otehr hand, without an active combat ability, the corrupter is tactically the lamest peace of meat in the game: NOTHNG can be done with it in a battle other than focus fiering the right stuff (typically the massive stuff)

... Corruption sucked and the unit needed an out-of-battle ability like siphon, but i think it still needs a combat ability!

Overseer Removal: Its a sad state that the Overseer was never a strong caster, it had real potential. Changeling was a horribly implemented Parasite substitute. But at least contaminate lives on in the Protoss Oracle, and the Viper appears to be a solid substitute.

Swarm Host: This easily gets my vote as the best new unit. I love this thing - its simple and eligant, and it screams Zerg. Endless waves of Locust (Broodlings)? Yes please. My only concern is it may replace Zerglings as cannon fodder late game, because I want all units to be useful the whole game.[/QUOTE]

I dunno which one of you are zerg players but the swarm host in my opinion is terrible. I heavily support the movable baneling, the Viper (amazing unit) and I think the best spell I've seen is ultralisk burrow charge, that is so much win it isn't even funny.

But Swarm host? Terrible idea.

a) It does nothing against bioball or marine ball or death ball, it basically adds HP to an army and adds path finding problems to an attacking army.

b) It doesn't allow for tactical gameplay, ie I can't set a trap of swarm hosts since they spawn these obvious swarmlings that tell everyone they are there.

c) They do no AoE damage, and again zerg is back to having no AoE damage. It's basically you're forced to use

a) Zerg need not fear a naked bio ball. fungal with ultra/ling or baneling or jstu more fungal deals with it very cost effectively.

b) as Drake clawfang said, it should end up being an autocast ability; you shuold be able to tell it to 'hold spawning' like you can tell a cloaked ghost to 'hold fire'

c) Z has ample AoE but it has to be in their own way; melee range / semi suicide or energy-based. i dont view lack f AoE in the swarmhost to be a problem. - i dont want to sidetrack the discussion, but i think, if zrg had a more or less stirahgtforward ranged splash unit, it would e dificult to balance while keeping the zerg approach unique. also, I've never liked the lurker and dont like the idea of adding more old units anyway.

... now, to elaborate on the tactical implications of this unit: it can help cut your costs for continual swarm-forward attacks; with enough of these guys you can force your enemy to brake formation to either back up to a more defensible position (gj you pushed em back! own the map!), or come get you (unseige etc; much easier for you to engage with the swarm)

[JackhammerIV]

@Todie
Arc Shield will only find use early game. It puts on a cannon that does 20 damage to light units but only 5 damage to non-light units.

Mass Recall is finally something competing for energy on the Nexus. Has more applications mid-game. Makes it more forgiving when moving out with an army for pressure.

[Todie]

... ive seen so many high end P's neglect using chronoboost, and though recall will be very strong, its situational; tehre will be energy leftover and 20 damage is good vs ling/hydra/marine/reaper/helion harass/coutnerattacks. can it target air? regardless, i read somewhere that it boosts armor, in that case it can make walls much more durable, espeically vs arine/zergling, especialyl combined with shield upgrades / guardian shield / defensive warpout (oracle ability)

[JackhammerIV]

... ive seen so many high end P's neglect using chronoboost, and though recall will be very strong, its situational; tehre will be energy leftover and 20 damage is good vs ling/hydra/marine/reaper/helion harass/coutnerattacks. can it target air? regardless, i read somewhere that it boosts armor, in that case it can make walls much more durable, espeically vs arine/zergling, especialyl combined with shield upgrades / guardian shield / defensive warpout (oracle ability)

Ya it boosts shields. Not sure by how much though but they are reported to boost shields. It should be able to attack air. They are considering tweaking it to only be castable on gateways and nexus. Problems with gas steal and pylons being a new cheaper "cannon rush" that doesn't require as much investment.

Technically the stockpiling of chronoboost would happen the earliest at mid-game. Not sure if it's a good tradeoff to miss 3 chronoboosts to get 1 recall mid-game. Upgrading, teching and economy seem better use for it at that time. Late game definitely for sure because there's so much less to chronoboost. Probably makes defensive Protoss better. Purposely leaving the farthest away expo and your main/nat with stockpiled energy to recall units for defense.

[Drake Clawfang]

The other thing with Arc Shield is that you're liable to use it not just to fight off raiders, but the extra shields could make the difference between a critical pylon or building staying up or not.