Unit Pictures

[Einharjar]

This is very true, the accuracy could be an issue but I imagine some of the "Aiming" the Hydralisk would do would be only WVR (within visual range). Since the Hydralisk is more or less a standard "Assault Infantry" mimic in Zerg form; basic combat may only involve ranges roughly around 200 meters based on standard combat practices with range infantry in modern day combat. While the Zerg may be "beasts", they are in a sense, a "Super Organism" who's prey is entire civilizations and species. Considering their evolutions brought forth strains who follow typical military roles such as CAS, Fire Support and Logistics - it's not hard to conceive that they even have standard "doctrines" in terms of military combat which include basic infantry combat doctrines. If this is true, the Hydra's prime battle range would be the typical 200 to 500 meters. Anything less will began to run into threat of CQC; which Zerglings are supposed to provide counters for.

To make this Babble of mine end... ... Velocity helps accuracy to a point here. Not much accuracy is needed if you're shooting something at mach 1.5 or more at targets around the 200 meter mark. Especially considering that the Hydralisk's "tubes" may in fact be rifled (don't doubt biology can't come up with something; Falcons have aerodynamically designed nostrils so that they still breath even while going 200 MPH in dives) and that the "grooved spines" upgrade may refer to the fact that the spines themselves are rifled much like Rifled Slugs and common SABOT Rounds.

[Turalyon]

Not much accuracy is needed if you're shooting something at mach 1.5 or more at targets around the 200 meter mark.

I'm no ballistics expert but if the projectile is capable of boucing around in the barrel or if the projectile is misshapen (not aerodynamic) or non-aerodynamic - as the Hydralisk spine seems to be (look at the thing that Warfield pulls out), I'd think the flight path would be potentially random (not be accurate). I'd think that velocity only counts in accuracy if there's sufficient stability to translate it into. Better rifling and projectile design all go into producing more RPM and stability.

Especially considering that the Hydralisk's "tubes" may in fact be rifled (don't doubt biology can't come up with something; Falcons have aerodynamically designed nostrils so that they still breath even while going 200 MPH in dives) and that the "grooved spines" upgrade may refer to the fact that the spines themselves are rifled much like Rifled Slugs and common SABOT Rounds.

It'd be difficult to rifle an organic muscular tube since the whole tube is made up of many smaller moving/shifting parts which would warp the dimensions along the tube whilst a rifled barrel from a normal gun is a static, solid tube at all times. Given the different modes of projectile propulsion as well, the muscular tube would have to be complex enough to not only provide a massively strong peristalsis (a wave of contraction and relaxation down a length of uscled tube) for this incredible velocity but it'll also have to have even faster moving and rippling small muscles occuring ahead of the projectile and peristaltic motion to simulate the effect of rifling.

Given that rifling only works with appropriate shaped projectiles like bullet, I'd also assume the spine (which looks like an arrowhead) would have to be covered in a mucousy sleeve/covering/SABOT like you said to prevent friction as well as provide additional stability when travelling and accelerating through the tube. It also explains the green spray. The "grooved spine" upgrade would only affect things whilst the spine is actually in/during flight - the mechanism of it's propulsion would still be the same.

**End of thread hijack....hopefully. **

[Robear]

I'm okay with a little more derailment. :P

So, rifling obviously doesn't work with this.



That's obviously not spinning around. In fact, it seems pretty difficult to fire at all. Because of its irregularly serrated sides, you wouldn't be able to have a snug fit in a barrel at all, so you can't blow it out pneumatically or anything... unless it was encased in some sort of organic blob to make it fit perfectly (and avoid cutting the tube with its sharp edges on its way out). Then the chunks of this blob could be sloughed off when it was launched— maybe it solidifies within the hydralisk's firing tube, but then exposure to air or the vacuum of space makes it become either more liquid-y resulting in SC1's green spray, or to basically evaporate, resulting in SC2's green puff.

But actually I just don't like that flat, serrated projectile at all. It seems very light, from the noise it makes when Warfield drops it into the ground, and its flat shape makes me think it could easily be blown way off course by wind. Plus, the hydralisk's armament was always described as "needle spines," and nothing about that SC2 design is in any way needlelike. Before SC2, I imagined a much smaller, round and pointy dart shape. But as you say, this would still have accuracy problems, unless it had stabilizer fins/flights like a real dart or missile, but that would look a little silly.

As it is, these massive white mushroom things just sprout out of nowhere and fold back easily and yet retain the complicated physiological musculature needed to fire these firing super dense spines at the drop of a hat.

Those pouches would've been just the flesh and plates moving out've the way. I'm not sure if they would have contained any of the musculature related to the Spine firing mechanisms. The surging contractions you see originate from the Hyrdalisks chord from deep within it's upper body.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to recreate the shape/expansion in 3D with no tricks with them folding along the neck, which is normally covered by the frill, rather than coming from nowhere. But, my method for this relies on them being ribbed and flexible/collapsible, not being hard armor plates.





As you can see, from the in-game angle, when folded up they're completely hidden by the head-frill and back carapace.
If it's true that they don't contain the firing mechanism, which makes sense, as you can get a longer and more accurate firing tube if you get to include the chest and possibly the back carapace, I don't know why the extending flaps are so incredibly large.

[Turalyon]

That's obviously not spinning around. In fact, it seems pretty difficult to fire at all. Because of its irregularly serrated sides, you wouldn't be able to have a snug fit in a barrel at all, so you can't blow it out pneumatically or anything... unless it was encased in some sort of organic blob to make it fit perfectly (and avoid cutting the tube with its sharp edges on its way out). Then the chunks of this blob could be sloughed off when it was launched— maybe it solidifies within the hydralisk's firing tube, but then exposure to air or the vacuum of space makes it become either more liquid-y resulting in SC1's green spray, or to basically evaporate, resulting in SC2's green puff.

Yep, you've just explained a sabot. It's the only way that spine is going to be able to rifle along the tube and maintain stability.

But actually I just don't like that flat, serrated projectile at all. It seems very light, from the noise it makes when Warfield drops it into the ground, and its flat shape makes me think it could easily be blown way off course by wind. Plus, the hydralisk's armament was always described as "needle spines," and nothing about that SC2 design is in any way needlelike. Before SC2, I imagined a much smaller, round and pointy dart shape. But as you say, this would still have accuracy problems, unless it had stabilizer fins/flights like a real dart or missile, but that would look a little silly.

Yep, once it leaves the tube, that Sc2 spine will never, ever fly straight due to it's shape and design even when fired from a sabot. The stability of a needle shaped projectile could conceivably be improved with sufficient rifling generating enough RPM to keep it straight in flight.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to recreate the shape/expansion in 3D with no tricks with them folding along the neck, which is normally covered by the frill, rather than coming from nowhere. But, my method for this relies on them being ribbed and flexible/collapsible, not being hard armor plates.

As you can see, from the in-game angle, when folded up they're completely hidden by the head-frill and back carapace.

If it's true that they don't contain the firing mechanism, which makes sense, as you can get a longer and more accurate firing tube if you get to include the chest and possibly the back carapace, I don't know why the extending flaps are so incredibly large.

This makes more sense I guess. Given the Hydra's back carapace narrows up when approaching it's neck and head in a / \ shaped fashion, I assume the pouch flaps will need to extend to accommodate the larger/lower portion of its back as it hinges/swings downward. However, one would assume then that the flaps should be wider vertically rather than horizontally. Even still, any firing tube will still be pretty cramped and only fire from a limited area leading out to those pouches if said tubes are forward/straight facing.

[Einharjar]

Wow, awesome stuff!

We can continue? All right!!! (I love Zerg stuff)

Robear;
Your animations are perfect and lets me see what I've tried to visualize for so long. Look at the "Victory" image for SCBW Zerg Victory. The shoulders. You can see the seporations between what seems to be carapace and then exposed softer masses and tendons (maybe ribs?). The pouches pop out as the arms go back, pulling the "shoulder" plates out've the way and realizing the animation you've just displayed.

I considered those pouches to be "armor" to assist with the firing mechnisms, tubing and the protection of the fleshy area. Even if they are "ribbed" more than "plates", those poushes in their closed positions still seem to offer one hell of a desnse "rib cage" acting as a little protection. It would also make sense they need to be rigid enough to deal with the forces involved anyway. Perhaps those old pouches were what the "tubes" were attached too and their "exposure" is what prepped the tubes to fire.


Turalyon;

Rifling still may be possible if the tubes are actually bone like as I suggested. AND considering Zerg genetic feats; maybe that bone type is grown with dense organic fibers in a heli-coil design. Such perfect geometry is still possible in nature. We see in every day environments where even things as simple as a flower show perfect symmetries.
If this is the case, then it's not inconceivable for the rifling to be possible and for the "barrel" to actually withstand the pressures.

[Robear]

Yep, you've just explained a sabot. It's the only way that spine is going to be able to rifle along the tube and maintain stability.

Sorry, obviously I had only skimmed your comment before posting mine... My bad, eh heh...

Even still, any firing tube will still be pretty cramped and only fire from a limited area leading out to those pouches if said tubes are forward/straight facing.

Well, if it fires right from that inside edge, it still gets to use the whole back. That's basically the longest forward facing tube you can put in this thing.

Look at the "Victory" image for SCBW Zerg Victory. The shoulders. You can see the seporations between what seems to be carapace and then exposed softer masses and tendons (maybe ribs?). The pouches pop out as the arms go back, pulling the "shoulder" plates out've the way and realizing the animation you've just displayed.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the high-detail hydralisk model from the victory screen might not live up to the way you understood and imagined it. It didn't for me, I used to look at the victory screen and think that the chest area was way cooler than it actually is.
Here it is lightened a bit, chest still looks amazing, and it even looks like there could be two overlapping layers on the sides that could open up to reveal spines...



And here's that same scene from another angle. Still looks great, although you can see a hole between those rib plate things and the chest muscles that goes all the way out to the background, which is kind of weird...



Let's look at another render, under worse lighting conditions...



Oh. The middle of the chest is just more of the same material as the tail, and they just slapped a couple of bits of muscle on the outside of it. The carapace doesn't open up to reveal muscles inside, the muscle is actually in front of the brown material, not even attached.



In the victory screen, where the armpit area is in shadow, it looks like there could be a whole bunch of stuff there, but, there isn't.

It's arguable though that this is just because it would be ridiculously harder to model and texture actual attached muscles. All of the hydralisk models and action figures produced have chests that are completely encircled by and made up of muscle, with no non-muscle parts visible at all, even though this is definitely not what we just established the real 3d model looking like.



Now, whether the action figure full-muscle look represents the true vision for the hydralisk that is just difficult to animate (which certainly would be true), or the sculptors for those models didn't sculpt them accurately (which is definitely true for the poor, poor Zealot action figure) is up to you to decide. :P


Okay I will definitely get back to drawing all those units people actually have been waiting for very soon.

[Turalyon]

Rifling still may be possible if the tubes are actually bone like as I suggested. AND considering Zerg genetic feats; maybe that bone type is grown with dense organic fibers in a heli-coil design. Such perfect geometry is still possible in nature. We see in every day environments where even things as simple as a flower show perfect symmetries.
If this is the case, then it's not inconceivable for the rifling to be possible and for the "barrel" to actually withstand the pressures.

The problem with this is how much of this tube is bone (to enable enough rifling to occur) and how much of it is muscle (to generate of enough power/velocity the spine is known to fly at) because there isn't much space for either. For any given length of rigid, rifled bony tubing, the remaining length of tube must have muscles that generate even more power with less surface area available to do so. The potential kinetic energy that needs to be transferred to a projectile is already less efficient in the Hydalisk's method of muscle contraction/relaxation compared to how a firearm works, so having fewer muscles will make the expected projectile velocity generated by the Hydralisk even less plausible.

Well, if it fires right from that inside edge, it still gets to use the whole back. That's basically the longest forward facing tube you can put in this thing.

Exactly, it's a very narrow forward facing arc (if there's an arc at all). Makes you question why the pouches are so big again, doesn't it? I can only assume then that the pouches are a hold-over evolutionary trait from the Slothien, who were a docile species, where the pouch extension is supposed to be a "threat display" to ward off predators - much like a frill necked lizard. Certainly makes for great irony that the threat display is also an offensive display at the same.

Can't wait for the new pictures!

[Einharjar]

The problem with this is how much of this tube is bone (to enable enough rifling to occur) and how much of it is muscle (to generate of enough power/velocity the spine is known to fly at) because there isn't much space for either. For any given length of rigid, rifled bony tubing, the remaining length of tube must have muscles that generate even more power with less surface area available to do so. The potential kinetic energy that needs to be transferred to a projectile is already less efficient in the Hydalisk's method of muscle contraction/relaxation compared to how a firearm works, so having fewer muscles will make the expected projectile velocity generated by the Hydralisk even less plausible.

I think you're assuming that the tubing needs to act as a tract in which it does not. The green "fluid" functions as a hydraulic fluid. All you'd need is for the muscle expansion to force the fluid into a chambered area. The contraction would cause such pressure as to lunch the SABOT like Spine covered in mucus and fluid. The Sabot assures the seal in the tubing of bone. The Bone is genetically marvelous with interweaving organic fibers forming in a heli-coil geometry. this creates a tube that can both handle rifling AND withstand pressures down the Barrel. End result? You don't need much room at all. Hell the muscle don't even need to be that close to the tube "chamber". All that is needed is muscles to cause compression of the fluid and that the fluid is directed into that chamber. In fact, if you wish to achieve the performance in velocity as is described? This is the only way as this allows the tube to be longest. The Longer the tube, the more time the pressure build up has to accelerate a round. This is why most rifles will shoot the same projectile with the same propellant weight at about 25 to 40% higher velocity than a side arm/pistol.

I understand that given real science, this is an extreme stretch. However I cannot think of another method without using chemical combustion; which is even MORE far fetched since at that point, the Hydra's biology would need to not only. evolve organs to resist the pressures, but also the heat. In the method I'm theorizing, the Hydraulic fluids also acting a mucus for lubricant removes the explosive heat problem.

Also note that muscles are often divided into two groups, Fast Twitch and Slow Twitch. Fast is for Speed/Power and Slow is for Endurance/Resistance. The ratio and effectiveness of each type is genetically decided. It's an avenue for Zerg to perfect. The Protein ACTN3 determines the speed of the Fast Twitch Muscle Fibers "Twitch" and so, since genetics is bold with sprinkles on the Zerg resume? I'm sure they've found ways to create the genetics to maximize the amount of ACTN3 proteins for supreme effectiveness. That, coupled with powerful metabolic systems allows the massive contractions needed to shoot spines at hideous velocities.
In reality, it's these same proteins and their related genes that Metabolic Boost should be boost for Zerglings. To run faster, to punch faster, to do ANYTHING faster and Harder, you need LOTS of ACTN3. Since this is an easy exploit? I think this is the method the Hydralisk would use.

[Turalyon]

^ No, I'm assuming that the entire tube itself will be required to generate the insane power and velocity required to launch the spine. As you said, the Hydraliks has to use a method other than the chemical combustion in the usual firearm to propel the spine because of the limitations imposed by organic components. I would doubt that the pressure developed by muscles contracting against a bladder of fluid would be enough to propel the spine at supersonic velocity since it's less efficient than the combustion used in firearms.

I proposed that the length of the tube tract would somehow be required to accelerate the projectile down its tract until supersonic speed was achieved upon release using some form of accelerated peristaltic motion. This rippling wave of relaxation/contraction gets stronger as it moves down the tube. If that wasn't enough to propel the projectile at the supersonic speed, I'd also guess that this peristaltic motion would also be used to generate some form of electromagnetic force to propel the spine like a rail gun.

Using this method, it would be difficult to rifle such a passageway without compromising the acceleration of the spine as the tube will have to be partitioned into a rifled, solid state portion and a muscled section. Given that the power is generated from this muscled segment, having less of this tube being muscled would mean that adequate acceleration would be compromised.

[Nolanstar]

Excellent job on the terran shuttle robear, I forgot about that unit but we now have a transport issue with the Hercules, in that the odin was transported to korhal with a security detail of 2 thors inside a dominion Hercules. So it currently is not big enough to hold it. I say that the Hercules size could be bumped to about 300-400 meters in length. I remember the colony ships you said were larger versions but looking around in the map editor at ability and unit descriptions as well as unused files indicated the colony ships are the old Hercules dropships swan talked about strengthening up. with their ability in the editor not being able to load massive units due to the lore reason of a big frame without the unmodified ability to support large vehicles - the maximum being an apc or tank. Hence swan making the old civilian design tougher to be used in military, with other factions adopting the design due to the technology "sharing" (stealing blueprints, prototypes, etc) issue terran factions have with new designs. The scene with Kate lockwell with all the colony ships in the window suggesting a larger size, I say the Hercules should be bumped to the range indicated earlier

Some additional units you could do is the military bulldozer from the hots campaign, the blimp W/o advertisements and perhaps the fatty/ old swarm host (its called Fatty in editor) only name that fits, ill post the attachment below

as for the hydralisk remember that the nydus worms internal tract can move even ultralisks extremely fast, perhaps the hydra has this on a smaller scale using the acid as a lubricant similar to the nydus worms inner fluids

I also noticed that you are organizing into by race sections, and that the hellion, Valkyrie fighter are not on yet or clipped off, as well as you added the missile turret