Unit Pictures

[Robear]

Wait wasn't there a Torrasque in starcraft 1, but it was based of an ultralisk model? (duo to lack of problems probably.)

Yeah, I mean, in SC1 all the hero or special units were just reused from the regular units except for Kerrigan.

Still a lot of work to color, but I had to post the Arclite siege tank; I'm really pleased with the way it looks, and how it would take up the same space as two goliaths in the dropship.

[phazonjunkie]

Why the arclite? It's technically and obsolete model (or at least just no longer 'state-of-the art.')


Granted it's slightly smaller & more compact (actually a GOOD thing in terms of armored fighting vehicle design irl) but not by much:

[Zero]

Heehee, I was waiting for an excuse to use this picture.


Just kidding, though. I'm not sure exactly why the Arclite is used. My guess is due to availability, since there is a lot more material on the Arclite versus the Crucio. Although, in the StarCraft wiki it shows two pieces of artwork: a schematic showing a good side view, and another picture with the Crucio along with a few marines (which could be used for a scaling reference). So if someone cares to, it can be added.

[Robear]

Holy shit that pictures is awesome.

There're a few reasons why I drew an arclite tank. I think the design is really memorable, and for me is one of the most emblematic units in all of Starcraft. It's also easier for me to draw to scale: there are more references for it, even though I don't follow any one design exactly. Also, the arclite designs include normal things like headlights and an entry hatch (thanks, SCG). I can figure out how much space there would be inside for people, for example.



With the crucio tank, the middle section seems like it'd be full of the machinery to make the treads swing out to the sides (which doesn't make sense to me in the first place; scraping the treads sideways along irregular terrain and broken metal seems like a bad idea). Then there are these extra little tread pods sticking out on either side which seem to have no wheels or anything to rotate the tank tracks, since in the transformation sequence the support arms and all these hoses magically pop out of them. The turret is right in the center of the tank, maybe the people sit inside the turret? I don't know, and I don't think Blizzard does either. So, I obviously feel a lot less comfortable drawing it if I'm just BSing the whole design.
It looks really really cool, but I don't feel like I have it figured out the way I do with the arclite. They're similar sizes, and they both have the same role, so I don't need to draw two different tanks the way I have to with the dropships.

That being said, I can still draw both designs like I'm planning to with the ultralisk. They have different names, so it's not like the way marines and gauss rifles are just inconsistant. And the crucio tank lifted up on its siege mode legs will probably be taller than the arclite, so then it's worth having in for the height comparison. If you want it in, I'll draw it eventually.


Also, as awesome as the crucio concept art is, you can see they didn't actually follow it for their final tank, which is symmetrical front-to-back. So my drawing would be quite a bit different anyway.

[phazonjunkie]

Holy shit that pictures is awesome.

There're a few reasons why I drew an arclite tank. I think the design is really memorable, and for me is one of the most emblematic units in all of Starcraft. It's also easier for me to draw to scale: there are more references for it, even though I don't follow any one design exactly. Also, the arclite designs include normal things like headlights and an entry hatch (thanks, SCG). I can figure out how much space there would be inside for people, for example.

IMG]http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/0/0e/SiegeTank_SC2-WoL_Story1.jpg[/IMG]

With the crucio tank, the middle section seems like it'd be full of the machinery to make the treads swing out to the sides (which doesn't make sense to me in the first place; scraping the treads sideways along irregular terrain and broken metal seems like a bad idea). Then there are these extra little tread pods sticking out on either side which seem to have no wheels or anything to rotate the tank tracks, since in the transformation sequence the support arms and all these hoses magically pop out of them. The turret is right in the center of the tank, maybe the people sit inside the turret? I don't know, and I don't think Blizzard does either. So, I obviously feel a lot less comfortable drawing it if I'm just BSing the whole design.
It looks really really cool, but I don't feel like I have it figured out the way I do with the arclite. They're similar sizes, and they both have the same role, so I don't need to draw two different tanks the way I have to with the dropships.




Also, as awesome as the crucio concept art is, you can see they didn't actually follow it for their final tank, which is symmetrical front-to-back. So my drawing would be quite a bit different anyway.

I here what your saying. looking about it now, the concept art does look more feasible than the in game model. For example; in the top down perspective you can see what presumably is an entry hatch on the side treads. Oh well...

You've got awesome drawings at any rate.

[Visions of Khas]

... Robear, I'll totally bear your child if you continue posting updates on your progress.

[Robear]

... Robear, I'll totally bear your child if you continue posting updates on your progress.

Here, have a queen. Don't be surprised to feel the broodlings spawning in you any day now.


Yeah, sorry I haven't had any major updates lately, but there will be more soon! Uh, in the mean time, here, you can have a picture of the bulletin board over the desk where I work on all this stuff. :P

[solidsamurai]

With the crucio tank, the middle section seems like it'd be full of the machinery to make the treads swing out to the sides (which doesn't make sense to me in the first place; scraping the treads sideways along irregular terrain and broken metal seems like a bad idea). Then there are these extra little tread pods sticking out on either side which seem to have no wheels or anything to rotate the tank tracks, since in the transformation sequence the support arms and all these hoses magically pop out of them. The turret is right in the center of the tank, maybe the people sit inside the turret?

What if the treads are propped up by the supports so that they can swing outwards without friction (also why the crucio has more supports than the arclite - arclite = 2, crucio = 4)? You gotta consider everything. If the treads still can't swing outwards, then the terrain is probably too rough for the crucio anyway (in which case, it probably just blasts it into smoothness). Chances are that the crucio uses a semi-shaped charge, which is why it does more damage to armored units than bio (about twice as much; which is pretty extreme enough, I'd say).

Zerg Leviathans are basically gargantuan space whales capable of carrying entire broods within their innards, that'd probably make them at the them equal to, if not greater in size to the largest Protoss motherships.

To be fair, they wouldn't carry buildings. Nor would they carry very many ultras, unless they were meant to. I think that for an assualt, leviathans would carry a minimal amount of zerg (really just air bornes, like brood lords and scourge). Though that's obvious (seen in-game). Leviathans aren't used for colonizing efforts all that much. Why? They can't overstock overlords.

10 or so overlords (and the pop they support; so like enough drones to quickly erect a large base and a swarm of zerglings/hydras/roaches for a rapid effort; note that even rapid bases take time to mature, since they gotta evolve the hatchery too) is technically enough for a brood.

Considering Lurkers are evolved from Hydralisks, I would probably just compare their heads and scale the body accordingly, maybe making the Lurker only slightly larger due to added armor and musculature.

M'kay, my opinion? Head is larger and more elongated, but also sloping downwards. The body is a heck of a lot wider, wider than it is high. So if the hydra is 10ft. tall, then the lurker is 9ft. tall and maybe 18-20ft. wide at least. And equally as long. So if the hydra is 16-18ft. long from tail to crest of the head... yeah.

Where did you get your reference for the Roach? It seems a bit big; I thought they were only slightly larger than Zerglings.

I think the intent of roaches is to draw fire. They're cannon fodder, but they're tough fodder. Which is why they're considered 'armored'. Also, they spit acid - to gradually eat through armored foes. Other zerg do the mop up and collateral damage.

So to draw fire, they've gotta let the enemy be more afraid of them than of a zergling. Even in modern warfare, we use similar tactics - loud machine guns tend to draw fire from the enemy. But loud machine guns also do lots of damage if the enemy doesn't pay attention; usually an enemy that doesn't pay attention to loud machine guns is deliberately ignoring the LMG - yet it still becomes distracting when the effort to ignore is diverted away from the effort to seek and destroy, etc., etc.

The roach is a gibbering mess of an ugly, enduring creature. That's why they call it a roach. When humans see it, they want it to die even more than they want a zergling to die.

I don't think those are cerebrates. They wouldn't just be hanging on a wall, and they would all be dead in the brood war cinematic. Personally I think that's the inside of a hive, and those are larvae or something.

For the purpose of clarification and the prevention of dumb mistakes - CEREBRATES ARE THE GLOWY WORM/SLUGS. Larvae are the centipedes. Kthxbai.

But I would imagine that carriers' hulls would be filled with shuttles and scouts in addition to their interceptors, and would also have space to house dozens of reavers and hundreds of Protoss.

That would take an awful lot of capacity for a single hull. You're going with the assumption that carriers are utterly massive - if they are, why not stick plenty of big and small guns on them too (for handling everything; like a mothership does; not just a single 'big gun' for supporting a bombing of planets)? And then you're going to have to assume that protoss have ascended (or perhaps even transcended) a resource based economy that's not nearly as desperate as terran or zerg (and the zerg are only powerful because they can live being bottom feeders). Which would, of course, contradict the way they work in the game.

Similarly, I imagine Battlecruisers being pretty huge, each carrying enough to start a new terran expansion, with tons of minerals, scvs, several dropships, and space for tanks and troops. Plus the bigger ones would have a nuclear silo to launch the orbital nukes that ghosts use on top of the reactors that power their own engines. That all makes behemoth battlecruisers pretty huge.

Nukes and such? Battlecruisers that can carry enough for an entire expansion are the ones carrying the nukes too. In other words, I'd take that from a behemoth battlecruiser (largest hull, right? AKA the super BC, or whatever the wiki called it). Unless you're willing to overstock a standard issue one like a minotaur (meaning you scrap on the guns and other technical detailings; blizz doesn't like inventing units that have trouble following orders due to comm and tactical navigation errors though, which is why we haven't seen that yet - because even when done in campaign, it's annoying to play with).

What you described for your carriers, I'd apply only to the Gantrithor. That ship rivals a mothership. The mothership, however, rivals the gantri in guns, nav and surveillance and other special equipment (so it probably doesn't have so much space for carrying). The gantrithor stripped would be like the ultimate blank slate, custom applicable to any combat circumstance.

Imho, carriers (tempests in particular; they don't make hulls like they used to) are minimalist, but as tough as they need to be (however, much of their defense relies on the plasma shields; the terran theme on the other hand is not necessarily better armor, but MOAR ARMOR (why battlecruisers have more hp in-game), because they also like to stick bigger engines - which of course, attract more attention due to the ejection mass involved (read: fire coming out of the pods at the back), but the terrans don't care because the theme is that they're the cocky ones). Protoss carriers can carry shuttles and scouts, but only enough to support a larger fleet. Scouts aren't much larger than a reaver - so an entire ground assault force can't fit into a single carrier. For that, you'd need some kind of transport craft that the carrier would be protecting for a land assault.

Also a scout is called a scout for a reason - it's a minimalist craft (crew = 1, serving as pilot, gunner, engineer, comms and co-pilot), that can serve as a fighter in a spot. In earlier times, when the protoss weren't so concerned about holding off on their militarist qualities, they probably had much more dedicated fighter craft. Ie. Like in real life: faster interceptors, bombers, resilient fighters. I know nothing about all the ins and outs and the benefits of an interceptor over say, an F-14 tom cat (is that an interceptor? see, I don't even know).

The scout is basically a reliable model (fast, easy enough to maintain, can handle being shot at by other light and fast craft and shoot back, etc.) that stuck with changing times and might have existed for hundreds of years (and not out of any strong tradition) - which is also why they were so quick to replace it with the phoenix (a dedicated support craft) and were pretty much desperate to make use of the corsair (similar to the phoenix; phoenix was kinda modeled off the corsair). I think the way blizz thinks in terms of new units is similar to how the races in the lore are thinking - it only makes the most sense, that way.
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One thing I'd like to mention is that the protoss were sorta modeled on the ancient roman empire - in the sense that they were once a great empire and now they're falling apart. Even before Aiur was lost. Blizz kinda fell off of that though (it's only somewhat obvious in some of the art themes), since it's a cliche to make a disparrate empire looking like ancient rome.

Also the ancient romans are known to have depended on military designs that worked at one point but fail to keep up with the times. And as they say (don't know particulalry who, just 'they'), the deprecation of its military is the first signs of the failure of the whole shebang. Of course, pretty much every european/western country is focused on avoiding those very mistakes (with the exception of places that are like Canada; how many of those exist?).

Granted it's slightly smaller & more compact (actually a GOOD thing in terms of armored fighting vehicle design irl) but not by much:

Mengsk wanted a bigger gun (bigger gun = better firing rate + slightly better damage). The emperor gets his bigger gun! He didn't want anything else to fall short - so yeah, the whole tank needed to be bigger (of course, this means that things will still fall short, but not in the eyes of the emprah).

there's no way you'd be able to fit a Protoss torso into either.

Ever considered that the protoss are still clinging to some zealous traditions involving them being hardcore and IF YOU VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AGAIN YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE PORTION OF YOUR TORSO AMPUTATED.

The hardcore imagery gets rid of any need to be safe or as practical for concerning the rest of the protoss' life. Just like dreadnoughts, they probably live in those suits.

[Robear]

Oh good, this is the sort of thing that justifies this topic being in the lore section. Lots to respond to here...

To be fair, they wouldn't carry buildings. Nor would they carry very many ultras, unless they were meant to. I think that for an assualt, leviathans would carry a minimal amount of zerg (really just air bornes, like brood lords and scourge). Though that's obvious (seen in-game). Leviathans aren't used for colonizing efforts all that much. Why? They can't overstock overlords. 10 or so overlords (and the pop they support; so like enough drones to quickly erect a large base and a swarm of zerglings/hydras/roaches for a rapid effort; note that even rapid bases take time to mature, since they gotta evolve the hatchery too) is technically enough for a brood.

We know that in Heart of the Swarm, Kerrigan travels around in a Leviathan. The Leviathan contains an evolution chamber full of eggs (where you purchase upgrades in the campaign). We also know from screenshots showing Kerrigan in the Leviathan, but with a planet's surface as the background that the Leviathan can land on planets. So, while your version of a Zerg colonization involves bringing in drones and making everything from scratch, I'd imagine that a landed Leviathan could not only unload units, but serve as (at least the beginnings of) a hive cluster, spreading creep, producing larvae and eggs with the help of a queen, containing either fully formed buildings or at least identical components like the evolution chamber Kerrigan has. Then, yeah, drones could pour out and start making more permanent structures, but you wouldn't need to just send them down in vulnerable overlords.

Regardless as far as art and size are concerned, here's some great leviathan HotS concept art that compares one to a mothership! And look! It shows detail of an opening, and a detail of that shows overlords coming out of it! Yes!

Someone find this in higher resolution! This picture is like the holy grail of this project for me. :P
I can also imagine that this is the sort of size of the thing containing the Overmind and all the Zerg that crashes down to Aiur in SC1.

Speculation about lurkers

Fortunately, we know how big lurkers are, because they were in Starcraft Ghost. Bit smaller than a tank. You can see some little marines and some tiny zerglings in the middle of this picture; and the lurkers are definitely big enough to impale some infantry. :P

Larvae are the centipedes. Kthxbai.

Yeah, but they're not the things on the walls of the Zerg briefing room. Those are much bigger than people, while larvae are this big:

Ever considered that the protoss are still clinging to some zealous traditions involving them being hardcore and IF YOU VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT AGAIN YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE PORTION OF YOUR TORSO AMPUTATED. The hardcore imagery gets rid of any need to be safe or as practical for concerning the rest of the protoss' life. Just like dreadnoughts, they probably live in those suits.

I always assumed that the Protoss inside dragoon exoskeletons were just heads in tanks, but then the immortal portrait shows an entire torso, as does the concept art.

If immortals are all upgraded dragoons (which they are), the protoss inside the immortals were once inside dragoons, which would mean that the whole torso fits inside the dragoon. But, I've seen a retconned explanation for this, which is that while no more dragoons can be made, they still had a bunch of empty ones stocked up that were upgraded into immortals. Then those empty immortals would have enough space for a whole torso, even though the veteran dragoon pilots are pretty much just heads.

stuff about carriers and scouts

I know how big the Gantrithor and SCBW carriers are from cutscenes and loading screens, I know how big a scout is from cutscenes and Starcraft ghost. The phoenix has a cockpit, so I can guess based on the scout's size/cockpit ratio. What I don't have is information on the corsair, SC2 carrier, warp prism, observer, or void ray. Right now I have to completely guess how big those are within ranges like, 'smaller than the Gantrithor, bigger than a scout.' I have a feeling they're gonna turn out to be disappointingly small.
If anyone knows or has heard of any concept art that shows void rays or ravens compared to literally anything else, help me out; I've never seen any concepts for them at all.

[solidsamurai]

Oh good, this is the sort of thing that justifies this topic being in the lore section. Lots to respond to here...

It's been hard work trying to make it interesting. -_-

The Leviathan contains an evolution chamber full of eggs (where you purchase upgrades in the campaign).

Really? Maybe different leviathans have different sizes?

Kerrigan would put extra effort into her own leviathan... right?

So, while your version of a Zerg colonization involves bringing in drones and making everything from scratch

I think it's preferable that a leviathan shoots them from space. Whats with all the random meteorites that spawn zerg in precise locations in WoL? IMO, comes from a leviathan or from some kind of satellite that itself was created by a leviathan... it comes from somewhere.

I'd imagine that a landed Leviathan could not only unload units, but serve as (at least the beginnings of) a hive cluster, spreading creep, producing larvae and eggs with the help of a queen, containing either fully formed buildings or at least identical components like the evolution chamber Kerrigan has.

So it seems like there's some kind capitol leviathan ship specially made to carry blueprints. Probably a new deal with kerrigan only controlling a fraction of the swarm she used to. The complete swarm probably didn't use those kind of leviathans, since that would be vulnerability (an entire brood dependent on a leviathan, which is slow and capable of being ambushed, as opposed to an immortal cerebrate).

Yeah, but they're not the things on the walls of the Zerg briefing room. Those are much bigger than people, while larvae are this big:

Can you find a screenshot? I think I know what you're talking about - but I always assumed those were tubes for larvae to travel through (or other zerg equivalent of primordial ooze).
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All that said - to remain completely valid, you should do both the old and new ultralisks. Put in the torrasque too. Imho, leviathans are of different sizes - they're called 'leviathans' because they're the biggest thing the zerg can create and don't necessarily use any tactics except colonize or desperate assault - so kerrigan's flag ship is going to be the biggest.



Further proof is this image. It looks different from your image, lul.

The back appears to be fully devoted to holding zerg - on the other hand, your leviathan image seems to make room for extra armor; so kerrigan took liberties and made it into this super leviathan thing.

Fortunately, we know how big lurkers are, because they were in Starcraft Ghost. Bit smaller than a tank. You can see some little marines and some tiny zerglings in the middle of this picture; and the lurkers are definitely big enough to impale some infantry.

So are you agreeing or disagreeing/agreeing to disagree/nodding in an affirmative maybe?

I always assumed that the Protoss inside dragoon exoskeletons were just heads in tanks, but then the immortal portrait shows an entire torso, as does the concept art.

I was thinking the dragoon allows a small portion of the torso - so maybe cut away so the stomach is gone as are some of the ribs, but the head remains (the most important part, lul). They don't overdo it - they still respect the body... just barely.

Also, immortals are bigger - the design simply gives more room; for the entire thorax even. Protoss are more zealous than ever before (protoss are very much more united and since Aiur is gone, they're returning to their militant roots), so even more of the wounded whom are injured (even barely; ie. I lost my testes before I hit puberty, thus I unfortunately lack the testosterone to be man enough to be a real ROAD WARRIOR even though I hoped I'd make it through enlisting... can I have cyborg halps???* Surgeon: Oh, of course! Y'know, now you'll only lose your legs and some of your arms, instead of much of the thorax like before - man, those were such savage days with those fascist council judicator whatsits... Zealot: Put it on my Artanis approved health care!) to inaction wanna serve.

The making of a dragoon was more somber. It was a last resort for those especially commited to their zealoutry - which explains why the dragoon facilities were abandoned so quickly. Their weren't very many to begin with, because they were (to put it harshly) a gimmick for the devoted. It existed for quite a while - there were probably devout followers that wanted to see it have an expanded role, but the times were against them. As a result, dragoons were humbled - and you can tell by all of their in-game quotes.

'I have returned' doesn't scream awesome with riffing guitar background, does it?

the protoss inside the immortals were once inside dragoons, which would mean that the whole torso fits inside the dragoon.

That's too broad of an assumption. A more precise assumption, however, would be that those are the majority of immortals - younger non-dragoon protoss that have recently been horribly maimed. The preludes and WoL entail a lot of conflicts. So immortals most likely outnumber dragoons. Dragoons were few to begin with - slow production rate eventually wore down whatever big numbers they had on Aiur.

Yeah I know, it's lame (especially considering how often noobs mass dragoons in BW). But... y'know. Blizz.

*It's okay to make fun of protoss in the military, because they aren't human and it's the future where nobody really cares about anything except the tech anyway.

Then those empty immortals would have enough space for a whole torso, even though the veteran dragoon pilots are pretty much just heads.

Then those immortal veterans are just heads, but blizz scrapped on the portraits to reflect the majority. Handwaved!

observer

Observer is fairly small (smaller than a zealot at least). I'd say its expensive, however, because they're relatively few in number. Didn't they exist to survey other planets (like... one per planet)? They're so good at their job, that the market for them stagnated.

I think they operate via some sorta psychic means - narrow the range and you get information on everything (the telepathy grows stronger with this one...), including any sorta cloak detection. So, they were the perfect seekers and no new product could rise above them in reputation. Just like most other protoss hardware - existed for probably hundreds of years. Like the ancient romans, conclave said 'meh, good enough' and essentially 'hedonism ho!' for those who could afford the luxuries of a world that some deemed good enough.

Right now I have to completely guess how big those are within ranges like, 'smaller than the Gantrithor, bigger than a scout.'

That's pretty broad, so I hope you're joking.

Also, ravens and void rays don't appear in cinematics because they're boring (just standing their and shooting magical stuff, basically; also the raven doesn't have any guns, is hardly rusty - and so contradicts terran philosophy slightly).

Well... not only that - I get the feeling that blizz is less likely to show units in cinematics in direct proportion to the amount of players that use them all the time. Some 'justification against people thinking we're pretentious' clause.