Patch 1.4.0

[TheEconomist]

also, hold your horses, its just PTR; we dont know if the blink reserch nerf will stick.

Yes, yes, but, they almost always do.

you can always invest some more energy into that to end up perserving whatever timing you hadgoing before the nerf

You play Zerg, right? I know its hard for a Zerg player to relate, but Protoss can't just shit out workers whenever we want to We need our damn chrono boosts.

Either way, again, the core of my statement was:

I'm just laughing at the fact that, quite literally, a day or two before this patch came out, I had just gotten used to my early Blinker build order.

[flak4321]

Hmmm.. I don't really know what to make of this. I am finally able to say I have adapted to the last round of protoss balance changes, and the blink change, should it stick, hurts me plenty. Blinkers are key to my lone efficient toss harass tactic that doesn't involve dts. The dt harass however is glad of the warp prism buff.

I have to say I'm glad for the MS speed buff AND the cloaking change. Too many mass carrier/void strats off of hidden expos on large maps for me to count, though I will admit my scouting misadventures probably play a bigger role here...

I like the rax build time nerf also.

[JackhammerIV]

@Tychus
Todie switched from Zerg to trying out Terran. He's on his way to being a random player I guess. From your statement seem like you like quick blink. I personally don't so it doesn't really affect me as much.

@Todie
Preserving the timing is kind of hard. Especially at the highest levels where they time their chronoboosts (hopefully). Not chronoing probes at times when you usually chrono probes gives a small hit to economy. And due to the slightly weaker economy your timing is delayed slightly or slightly weaker. But this would all be in the low seconds range.

To me it always feels like the best chronoboosting consciously chooses between Economy or Tech. Units pretty much shouldn't be chronoboosted unless they're absolutely needed. Makes me wonder if anyone has worked out yet the economic benefits of each chronoboost on probes. It'll probably be tiny but perhaps larger in the long run.

[Todie]

Hmmm.. I don't really know what to make of this. I am finally able to say I have adapted to the last round of protoss balance changes, and the blink change, should it stick, hurts me plenty. Blinkers are key to my lone efficient toss harass tactic that doesn't involve dts. The dt harass however is glad of the warp prism buff.

dont worry about it the blink nerf; its only research time. assuming youre still playing in teh lowest leagues, you wont be needing crisp timings to succeed, meaning, if you do lile up some attack to hit when blink finshes this 30 second change is unlikely to matter much. While, if youre not aiming for any specific timing (most probable) then this change wont matte to you otehr than in the rare unlucky occurace that you are atacked during the anti-timing where blink is on the way but not done.


tychus, you can keep using your early blink build order 'til the patch ACTUALLY comes out. it might be a month. but yes, i understand the frustration that comes with that.

[Peanutbutter]

Blink chrono boost numbers ( assuming constant CB )

Pre patch : 73.3 seconds, 4,6 CB's used.

After patch : 93.3 seconds, 5,6 CB's used.

It's not that big a deal. I don't really see the point of 1 base blink, except in PvP, and most 2 base blink builds won't really suffer much from this. Just get a twilight council bit earlier, and you'll hit the same timing as you did prepatch.

[TheEconomist]

From your statement seem like you like quick blink.

I prefer the Huk build on maps where you can early forge and cannon off. On any other map, it depends on my mood and the skill of the opponent. My personal blinker build is very effective, at the moment, because very few people expect it or even know how to counter it. Most Protoss players go 2-base, so the Zerg knows the timings to counter that. So, from there, it's all about more standard play. That's not ideal for a random player such as myself who already is lacking in time to ladder.

It's not that big a deal.

I'm guessing you've never gone fast blinkers.

You have a very small window of time to optimally attack the Zerg before they are in a position to quickly mass Roaches/Zerglings and stop any number of binkers you are able to have at that time. I'm guessing that its about 20-30 seconds depending on the player and their scouting information. So, if the research takes 40 seconds, well, then, you're double screwed. Remember, you're trying to attack during the time between them massing up drones and then transitioning into massing Roaches. If you've ever played Zerg or even tried to attack a Zerg during this time, you know that its a very small window of opportunity. Even if you chrono boost, you're out of about 4 probes. That means you're about two stalkers behind come time to push. Two Stalkers is a pretty big deal when it comes down to straight micro from that early. Each Stalker has to push its weight or you lose.

What you seem to ignore is that you're treating this build like its a macro build where things aren't as tight. In a macro build, you don't have to be exact with your timings and you can even make quite a few mistakes. Not so with a fast blinker build. You have to be very tight with your timings and control, or else you lose. Attack during that small window before Zerg can pump out units or you lose. Simple as that.

[Peanutbutter]

I'm guessing you've never gone fast blinkers.

You have a very small window of time to optimally attack the Zerg before they are in a position to quickly mass Roaches/Zerglings and stop any number of binkers you are able to have at that time. I'm guessing that its about 20-30 seconds depending on the player and their scouting information. So, if the research takes 40 seconds, well, then, you're double screwed. Remember, you're trying to attack during the time between them massing up drones and then transitioning into massing Roaches. If you've ever played Zerg or even tried to attack a Zerg during this time, you know that its a very small window of opportunity. Even if you chrono boost, you're out of about 4 probes. That means you're about two stalkers behind come time to push. Two Stalkers is a pretty big deal when it comes down to straight micro from that early. Each Stalker has to push its weight or you lose.

What you seem to ignore is that you're treating this build like its a macro build where things aren't as tight. In a macro build, you don't have to be exact with your timings and you can even make quite a few mistakes. Not so with a fast blinker build. You have to be very tight with your timings and control, or else you lose. Attack during that small window before Zerg can pump out units or you lose. Simple as that.

So... it's a one base build?

[DemolitionSquid]

One base in PvZ is very strange indeed. Blinkers need to do good damage to justify the loss in macro compared to the Zerg.

[Gradius]

Blink Stalkers don't have to be a one-base build. You can go 3-gate sentry FE & transition into anything while still hitting a timing.

[Peanutbutter]

One base in PvZ is very strange indeed. Blinkers need to do good damage to justify the loss in macro compared to the Zerg.

This.

Today there are pretty much 2 standard openings in PvZ. One is FFE, the other is a 1-3 gate expand.

Most zerg in the upper leagues ( plat and above ) will stay on top of their scouting. And as soon as a zerg scouts a stalker before sentry, or no expansion at the 6 min mark, alarm bells will go off and the zerg will prepare accordingly.
So I'd say going for a 1 base blink build is pretty risky. Blink stalkers off 1 base aren't that good, and it puts you in a kind of all in situation, where you need to hurt the zergs economy in order to get even/ahead.

So if you're going to do a 1 base allin, just do a 4 gate since it's much effective and simple to pull off.

Blink Stalkers don't have to be a one-base build. You can go 3-gate sentry FE & transition into anything while still hitting a timing.

Right. Though when TF speaks of really tight timings etc. it sounds like the build he's doing is 1 base.

My main point is, that this change won't effect 2 base blink builds that much.