Patch 1.4.0

[JackhammerIV]

Holy......I didn't know it but....4-gate in PvP on maps with ramps is pretty much dead with the PTR changes. Units can't be warped in on ramps anymore and the vision thing blocks off the warping in on high ground with pylons.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=259086

Really makes me wish Blizzard did this earlier instead of messing around with the warpgate time.

@Twilice
I've never really seen that stalker harass early game really decide a game in professional play. Maybe bring down 2 marines to half health. I have seen it being used as a scouting tool that lets Protoss know an all-in is coming. Notably I saw White-Ra scout an all-in coming with it and micro'd his stalkers from Terran natural to his natural. But it does really punish a terran who techs without a bunker.

It just seems to me like the next step to Protoss scouting. First is the initial scout probe to see the gases and rax (maybe an add on or second rax). Second is the zealot+stalker poke. Then some regular poking with probe/zealot/stalker until observer comes out. I've always personally seen it as a scouting technique rather than damage dealing to bio units.

There is the constant stalker harass that got really popular a few months back. Constantly poking and attacking with stalkers. Especially if there's a lack of marauders/no concussive shell.

@Todie
Those 5 seconds I would think make more difference in TvZ than TvP. Changes bunker rushes and 2 rax play TvZ. Makes it even easier for zerg to hold it off. Gives protoss a bit more breathing room early game. There are always cases of games you can think of where the sentry finishes like a few seconds slow.

[Peanutbutter]

Holy......I didn't know it but....4-gate in PvP on maps with ramps is pretty much dead with the PTR changes. Units can't be warped in on ramps anymore and the vision thing blocks off the warping in on high ground with pylons.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=259086

Really makes me wish Blizzard did this earlier instead of messing around with the warpgate time.

I wouldn't exactly call it dead. According to those pictures, you need to place the forcefield in a specific position, in order for it to block ramp warp ups, which I kinda dislike. Oh well.
I like that they are nerfing the 4 gate, while still making it viable : P

Also, among some hidden PTR notes, people have found a certain buff to the sentry ability " Guardian Shield ".

" Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack. "

Someone posted a great thread on TL explaining how useful GS will be in PvP Colossi fights, among other things.

Hidden Content:

First, Zealots and Stalkers with Guardian shield protection will now take 7 Colossi shots to bring down rather than 6. This is pretty substantial, as it means that 3 Colossi (generally considered a critical mass number at which Gateway armies become nearly useless except to shield Colossi, which leads to "War of the Worlds" syndrome in lategame PvP) will no longer 2 shot groups of Zealots and Stalkers.

Second, Guardian shield is the only damage-reducing effect in the game that stacks with The Immortals Hardened Shield. Immortals protected by GS take a maximum of 8 damage per attacks. This means that it now takes Tanks 12 shots to get through the hardened shield rather than 10, and it takes Colossi 6 shots rather than 5.

When combined with its improved range, it should now be considerably easier to get an Immortal close to the P and T siege units in order to bring them down (which was, after all, the role it was designed for).

I believe that this will help enormously with War of the Worlds in PvP, especially now that prism-dropping in your opponent's base is very viable. Opponents will need more Colossi before they hit the critical mass needed to melt Gateway armies, and getting your Immortals close to kill those Colossi will be much easier.

I think it will also help a lot with 1/1/1 in PvT. For all that people bitch about Banshees, there's a reason that 1/1/1's vary hugely in what exact air support units they get (some get Ravens and Banshees, some just Banshees, some Cloakshees), but every single version includes a Siege Tanks. The attack just isn't as scary without it. Now that Siege Tanks deal less damage to Immortals (and the surrounding splash also deals less damage to the Gateway units) and Immortals have longer range, that Tank is a bit less scary.

Link to thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=258903

[JackhammerIV]

I wouldn't exactly call it dead. According to those pictures, you need to place the forcefield in a specific position, in order for it to block ramp warp ups, which I kinda dislike. Oh well.
I like that they are nerfing the 4 gate, while still making it viable : P

Also, among some hidden PTR notes, people have found a certain buff to the sentry ability " Guardian Shield ".

" Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack. "

Someone posted a great thread on TL explaining how useful GS will be in PvP Colossi fights, among other things.

Hidden Content:

First, Zealots and Stalkers with Guardian shield protection will now take 7 Colossi shots to bring down rather than 6. This is pretty substantial, as it means that 3 Colossi (generally considered a critical mass number at which Gateway armies become nearly useless except to shield Colossi, which leads to "War of the Worlds" syndrome in lategame PvP) will no longer 2 shot groups of Zealots and Stalkers.

Second, Guardian shield is the only damage-reducing effect in the game that stacks with The Immortals Hardened Shield. Immortals protected by GS take a maximum of 8 damage per attacks. This means that it now takes Tanks 12 shots to get through the hardened shield rather than 10, and it takes Colossi 6 shots rather than 5.

When combined with its improved range, it should now be considerably easier to get an Immortal close to the P and T siege units in order to bring them down (which was, after all, the role it was designed for).

I believe that this will help enormously with War of the Worlds in PvP, especially now that prism-dropping in your opponent's base is very viable. Opponents will need more Colossi before they hit the critical mass needed to melt Gateway armies, and getting your Immortals close to kill those Colossi will be much easier.

I think it will also help a lot with 1/1/1 in PvT. For all that people bitch about Banshees, there's a reason that 1/1/1's vary hugely in what exact air support units they get (some get Ravens and Banshees, some just Banshees, some Cloakshees), but every single version includes a Siege Tanks. The attack just isn't as scary without it. Now that Siege Tanks deal less damage to Immortals (and the surrounding splash also deals less damage to the Gateway units) and Immortals have longer range, that Tank is a bit less scary.

Link to thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=258903

Ya i saw that sentry thing earlier. Looks good.

Well you can't use the zealot warp trick on ramp to gain vision of high ground anymore. So just place the forcefield at the bottom of the ramp. There's no issue with placement. That was the original way people tried to prevent warping in on high ground through vision. The bypass was warping in a zealot on the ramp to gain vision but that's not possible anymore.

Can't really complain about that. Protoss players have had a year to fully realise how forcefields early game have to be perfect to defend against pushes.

[DemolitionSquid]

I'm most intrigued by the Warp Prism, Hellion, Raven, and Infestor changes.

Warp Prism increased Shields is clearly to encourage increased Protoss drop use, which has been sorely lacking compared to Overlords and Medevacs, to my surprise honestly. I never understood why there so few Warp Prisms when Warp-In is just so powerful. Protoss seem to be much happier running Probes around and placing proxy real Pylons, which is fine, but the Warp Prism can do things the Pylon cannot, and vice-versa. I think we don't see Warp Prisms simply because all the Robotics are stuck pumping out Colossus.

Hellion drops are strong unchallenged, but relatively easy to counter because Hellions are so low on HP. I'm sure the damage reduction from 10 to 5 is because of the new "Mass Hellion" strategy... which I laugh at cause its a strategy I expected to see last year, seeing as Hellions are cheap, 6-ranged Mutalisks with wheels. The damage drop could also be to place less importance on the upgrade making Terrans "feel" like they have more options instead of requiring it.

I'm going to take a stab and say the Raven's Missile speed was increased to make it more viable against Mutalisks. Once again I'm surprised to see so few Ravens with the prevalence of burrowed Roaches, Infestors, and Banelings in competitive play, along with the Mutalisks. I can think multiple Idra games the last few weeks which would have had completely different outcomes if his Terran opponent had just used a few Ravens for Detection, PDD, and Seeker Missile. Terran are really under utilizing Ravens as a resource, opting far too often for Thors, limiting their mobility even more than Tanks do.

Finally, I'm confused about the Infestors Fungal Growth nerf. It was 36 and (36 + 30%) = 46.8. Now its 30 and +10 vs armored. I can understand wanting to fix the % bonus to a more accurate + bonus, but a nerf of 6 damage over 4 seconds just seems kinda pointless. I can't see that kind of minor change having much less of an affect on regenerating Roaches and Marines under Medevac.

[Gradius]

The Warp Prism change is to increase their tanking ability. MC recently kept high templar inside warp prisms on the battlefield to evade EMP, hence the buff (though in the games I tried this, keeping the prism behind your army works just as well). And I believe someone tried immortal drops on Colossus in PvP, though it failed because the prism dies so fast.

[hyde]

I would be so pissed if I still played Ladder, as a Terran player anyways.

But you know what, I suppose comes the end of an era...where marauders could own a tier 2.5 unit like immortals and infantry rushes are one step closer to being completely pointless.

I never understood why they even dared release the game with the no depot tech Barracks, insta build bunkers with 100% refunds and then the reaper jetpack factory tech requirement ... (and yes, I do understand why. But for the amount of time they delayed the game and the beta..you would figure it wouldn't take so long to finally balance it)

My only worries now is the shit-show of a ladder that HOTS will be, balancing shenanigans all over again :-)

[TheEconomist]

Stalker

Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.

Fuck me, I had JUST found a way to counter those damn annoying anti-Protoss Zerg builds with Blinkers.

[Peanutbutter]

Fuck me, I had JUST found a way to counter those damn annoying anti-Protoss Zerg builds with Blinkers.

Could you be more specific?

My general gameplan in PvZ, is to go for a 2 base 6 gate blink push in order to deny expansions, while teching to HT's and taking a third myself.

I don't think this change will have a significant impact though.

In PvP, it's a whole other story. Going for blink/robo seemed to be a stable late early/mid game build, but this change along with the Immortal buff has made the unusable.

[TheEconomist]

2 base 6 gate blink push

aka Huk build? Yeah, that's a macro build and wouldn't be effected by this as much. But, once you play against Zerg that can counter a toss 2-base, then you need to attack earlier. And, that's where this starts to matter. Especially when you have a small window of time to optimally attack a Zerg early. Not a game breaker though, I'm just laughing at the fact that, quite literally, a day or two before this patch came out, I had just gotten used to my early Blinker build order.

[Todie]

... i dont play protoss, but i always get the feeling taht nerfs to protoss reserchtimes are to be taken with a grain of salt; unless youre already chronoboosting it for all youre worth, you can always invest some more energy into that to end up perserving whatever timing you hadgoing before the nerf.

also, hold your horses, its just PTR; we dont know if the blink reserch nerf will stick.