Assistance

[Drake Clawfang]

Is there anyone here skilled with making custom units and triggers that would be able to give me advice and feedback? I wanna make my own maps but this map editor is confusing as hell.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Drake, any specifics?

Generally, I'd say you would want to approach custom units like they are objects connected to objects.

Let's call these parts "Data" or data objects.


First let's examine visual things. This is what you need to trail into:

Unit Data <-- Actor Data (unit) --> Model Data

(This means, when editing, you specify what Unit Data will contain the Actor Data, through the said Actor Data. And the Model Data is specified through the same Actor Data.)

Actor Data contains a field where you define what Model Data will be used. The Actor Data's Event+ field can be seen as like an area where you can define what will be executed should an event occur.

An example would be to change animation sets (BSD) if say the unit has a certain Behavior Data applied to it.

Now weapons: (looking at the Marine)

Unit Data --> Weapons <-- Actor Data (Action) --> Models Data

at Weapons Data:

Weapons Data --> Effects (damage)


For sound:

Unit Data <-- Actor Data (unit) --> Sounds Data

...

I could be jumping the gun here, and you might already know these. So, I should stop here. For starters, this should help anyone navigate through a unit and start examining them.

[Drake Clawfang]

Well, what I'm trying to do is make my Mar Sara maps, with custon heroes. I've got the Spectre as Quincy with a "Flame Drone" ability that places a Flame Drone (Hellion) based on Swann's Flaming Betty, and that works fine, but I want to adjust its damage, range, and the units size, and have no clue how to do that. The other hero, Stone, he's got Yamato Gun and does splash damage with his normal air attack. The splash doesn't work period, and while the Yamato works there's no graphic of it firing, and I want to adjust the damage and energy costs for it.

[Gradius]

Gna - what is the best way you recommend to learn the data editor? Follow random tutorials or just mess around? I can make a Marine that shoots a random laser beam, but I need a better understanding of how all the objects fit together.

[GnaReffotsirk]

Personally, I like to discover things, so I try to trace things down, see how the default units are made.

I've learned a lot by duplicating existing data, and just understanding (or getting familiar with) how things are structured. There's different structures for different things.

I ask a lot, but find no answer most of the time. It's just like chatting with Eliza. Doesn't work.

I'm currently trying to document the Marine by tracing everything related to it and where they are referenced to. This helped me a lot settle my mind, and have a more grounded feeling of what I'm doing.

The obstacle that stymied me from properly learn is not breaking into groups what's needed, and just wanted to make something awesome. Mostly these are spells/Abilities, which I should have thought of as it's own set of data and stuff.

Now I know I should have say first learned how to make just the marine, no weapons etc. Then add weapons, then abilities, then abilities that adds behaviors, then how to make behaviors, etc.

I'm still far from half-way with regards to data editing.
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Drake, for the unit size, you can either edit the Model Data or the Actor Data. The Scale parameter. For range, it depends what's your weapon is. But it's generally found in the Weapon Data. In the Hellion's case, check the Effects data.

Go to the hellion's Unit Data, and at the tree you can see Effects, those three effects are what you need to edit.

Damage area is defined by Search, damage amount is Damage, Create Persistent defines the rate of burning and where the burning is located at the Line of Fire.

The Yamato Ability and it's visuals are defined in the Actors Data, particularly Events+. Check the BC's Yamato Ability, then at the tree.

The Yamato Missile, open Models Tab, find Yamato Missile, and at the tree, check out the Actors, Battlecruiser Yamato Attack Missile, then 2x click the events+.

Inside we see that when Birth happens (this is linked Weapon-Yamato), it is created, and so we see it.

This Weapon-Yamato unit is linked the the Effects of the Yamato Ability, particularly Battlecruiser - Yamato Cannon (missile) as Ammo Unit. Yamato Cannon (missile) is defined as the Effect-Effect of the Yamato Ability Data.

For the Splash damage, check the thor's ata, and trace it down. I use this for AOE attacks that has random area impact.

[Drake Clawfang]

Drake, for the unit size, you can either edit the Model Data or the Actor Data. The Scale parameter. For range, it depends what's your weapon is. But it's generally found in the Weapon Data. In the Hellion's case, check the Effects data.

Go to the hellion's Unit Data, and at the tree you can see Effects, those three effects are what you need to edit.

Damage area is defined by Search, damage amount is Damage, Create Persistent defines the rate of burning and where the burning is located at the Line of Fire.

Worked, thanks a lot! Though how do I change the ability Hotkey and its name in the flavor text when I hover my cursor over it?

The Yamato Ability and it's visuals are defined in the Actors Data, particularly Events+. Check the BC's Yamato Ability, then at the tree.

The Yamato Missile, open Models Tab, find Yamato Missile, and at the tree, check out the Actors, Battlecruiser Yamato Attack Missile, then 2x click the events+.

Inside we see that when Birth happens (this is linked Weapon-Yamato), it is created, and so we see it.

This Weapon-Yamato unit is linked the the Effects of the Yamato Ability, particularly Battlecruiser - Yamato Cannon (missile) as Ammo Unit. Yamato Cannon (missile) is defined as the Effect-Effect of the Yamato Ability Data.

Yeah, I don't have Yamato Missile under anywhere.

For the Splash damage, check the thor's ata, and trace it down. I use this for AOE attacks that has random area impact.

I figured out the splash damage problem, now the splash damage works. But now the flavor text when I hover my cursor over the weapon icon doesn't appear, and the missile animation doesn't occur.

Blizzard really didn't need to make this thing this damn complicated...

[GnaReffotsirk]

Flavor Text, you could be referring to tooltips? It should be in the Buttons Tab. You can edit tooltip and Hotkey there for the associated Button/Icon of the ability.

Some Actors or such that should be linked to say an ability doesn't show on the tree, yeah. Like the Weapon units. IMO they should at least be shown for easier navigation.

The Yamato Missile, you can find it in the Units Tab. It's a unit used as an Ammo for the Missile.

[Drake Clawfang]

Flavor Text, you could be referring to tooltips? It should be in the Buttons Tab. You can edit tooltip and Hotkey there for the associated Button/Icon of the ability.

Well, discovered the main problem from this is that you're giving me confusing information - no, I don't want the Buttons tab, I want the Buttons option in the data type menu. You say tab, I'm selecting the Quincy James unit and looking at the Buttons there. >_<

Anyway got it, thanks. Last thing, how do I adjust its lifespan and the ability cooldown?

I also want to give Quincy another ability now - basically detection and Radar like Raynor has in the cave mission. No clue how to do that, I add an ability to him but Radar isn't there nor is detection.

The Yamato Missile, you can find it in the Units Tab. It's a unit used as an Ammo for the Missile.

I found it, "Yamato Weapon", but how does this get the animation displaying?

Also the splash damage doesn't work properly, its supposed to hit 8 times, 3 damage each. It hits twice for 3 damage. And I flat have no clue how you expect me to change it to the Thor's cannons. Is there any way I can just reset all the Frank Stone data and start over from scratch?

[GnaReffotsirk]

Don't mention it.

You were right that this isn't easy, and I apologize if I have given you more confusion. I wasn't really expecting to be as helpful as you need.

Anyway, I would just duplicate the thor's ATA and then assign that as the weapon. That's the fastest way. Even so, there will be data you will need to edit and set certain names to link them properly.

For the yamato unit, in it's Actor go to the actor's Events+ parameter/field, you will see that it is created there at the trigger "Birth".

If you duplicate this yamato unit, you should reassign all things Battlecruiser to your new unit. Every parameter, field, name that seems to says Battlecruiser or Yamato Cannon you should change to your new ability or unit.

This is always the case when duplicating things in the editor.

Anyway, if you need more detailed help, you can find a lot of data experts at sc2mapster. I'd ask for your map, but I've just gotten a contract to make a shit load of models for some custom campaign. I have to review stuff, and get organized.

GL.

[Drake Clawfang]

I have no idea how to do anything you just said. I was thinking of this as some side-project to work on now and then, but if I'm gonna have to go through this sort of effort for it all then there's no point, I only ever made maps for fun and this isn't. So I guess I'll be shelving the Mar Sara Missions again. Hopefully HotS makes the map editor less confusing. I'll keep that site in mind though and have a look. A pity I lack money or I'd recruit someone to do this for me. I don't even want to think about what the triggers might be line...I want to learn, I do, but not if it's going to be this difficult. I'm just at a loss, I don't want to give up but this is just...

You know what's most frustating about this? Not that it's complicated, but that it shouldn't be and doesn't need to be. At the very least if they were going to give us this much control they could steamline the interface and provide support for it.

EDIT - Yeah, looked at SC2mapster....they're so far ahead of me I doubt anything they could provide would be of help.

EDIT x2 - "there will be data you will need to edit and set certain names to link them properly." - what the flying heck does that mean? I have to rename things to link...?