How did they screw up the single player that bad?

[Laurentian]

I'm not sure if you're referring also to SC's Terran campaign Rebel Yell as well here. If you are, I have to disagree on the basis that it is an effective introduction to the world. Yes, it deals only with Terran matters which are trivial to the end (Tassadar destroying the Overmind) but it cleverly intersperses the importance of the Zerg (and the Protoss, yet this is more subtle) in Terran matters and, unbeknownst to the Terrans at the time, that the Zerg are more than what the egocentric Terrans initially thought them to be. By the time The Inauguration ends, there's a growing sense that the Terrans (and the player themselves) are now aware of other potentially greater dangers than Terrans which primes the player for their justified threat (as is shown explicitly when confronted with the alien-ness of the Overmind straight after Rebel Yell).

This is true, I agree that it was a good introduction, except for the fact the Dominion doesn't seem to really do anything about the alien threats. What I meant was Rebel Yell was all about overthrowing an oppressive government only to get a new one. I know that was the point but the problem is the writers keep doing it so it becomes rather predictable and brings up Fanatic Templar's criticism that the Terrans don't seem to have a real purpose in the storyline. Wanna bet the Valerian will turn out to be bad, which will only be a shock to those that haven't read any tie in novels about him?

[Turalyon]

This is true, I agree that it was a good introduction, except for the fact the Dominion doesn't seem to really do anything about the alien threats.

What about Duke heading off to Char on Mengsk's orders to try and take the fight to the Zerg? Sure, it may have been under the pretense of finding Kerrigan due to her psionic broadcast but that was more than what (what we are led to believe at any rate) the Confederates were doing at the time.

What I meant was Rebel Yell was all about overthrowing an oppressive government only to get a new one.

Sure Mengsk's 'true colours' are revealed in The Hammer Falls and colours your perception of what his inauguration speech is really about, but pragmatically speaking, Mengk's "oppressive" government seemed to be a better fit for the times than what the Confederates were doing. Although Rebel Yell does 'out' Mengsk as a mustache-twirling villain at the end, there is enough of Mengsk background throughout the campaign to show that he knows that what he's doing really is the best for all Terrans.

It's just a shame it wasn't sustained in later installments where Mengsk's villainy has overshadowed this better aspect of him.

I know that was the point but the problem is the writers keep doing it so it becomes rather predictable and brings up Fanatic Templar's criticism that the Terrans don't seem to have a real purpose in the storyline.

It is a valid point based off if what we see is only from the Terran perspective. The Terrans do serve a purpose to the storyline, it's just that they're unaware of it. It is only made clear later (or earlier, if you read the manual backstory) that the Zerg want (not need as people incorrectly assume) the Terran psionic potential as an ace in the hole against the Protoss. Essentially the Terrans are depicted as being in the 'wrong place at the wrong time' from their perspective (which is useful as this perspective lends itself well to introducing the world) but later it is revealed that the Terrans are actually in the 'right place at the right time' from the Zerg perspective.

Wanna bet the Valerian will turn out to be bad, which will only be a shock to those that haven't read any tie in novels about him?

Can't say much about this because I haven't read the novels. From what we see of him in WoL though he does seem like a stock-standard character but he does have some potential. You never know, he might be an even bigger bad than papa Mengsk such that papa Mengsk is revealed to actually be the pragmatic good guy since the beginning in comparison to him!

[Laurentian]

What about Duke heading off to Char on Mengsk's orders to try and take the fight to the Zerg? Sure, it may have been under the pretense of finding Kerrigan due to her psionic broadcast but that was more than what (what we are led to believe at any rate) the Confederates were doing at the time.

Duke gets his ass kicked. Doesn't seem to have much of a point except to give the zerg an extra mission before Kerrigan hatches. That is pretty much all Mengsk does (so far!) against the zerg in all of StarCraft!

that he knows that what he's doing really is the best for all Terrans.

Interesting that you say that he knows what he is doing is best for all Terrans as if you agree with his actions as supposed to saying that he thinks he is doing good. Anyway all tyrants throughout history have thought that they were doing what was best for their people (such as oh Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) so that doesn't much about Mengsk not being a bad guy. That said I would prefer if Mengsk made some defense of his actions since it would add a bit of complexity and I would like to think that Mengsk thinks that the likes of Raynor and Kerrigan running things would be a disaster so Terrans are better off under his rule than not.

It is a valid point based off if what we see is only from the Terran perspective. The Terrans do serve a purpose to the storyline, it's just that they're unaware of it. It is only made clear later (or earlier, if you read the manual backstory) that the Zerg want (not need as people incorrectly assume) the Terran psionic potential as an ace in the hole against the Protoss. Essentially the Terrans are depicted as being in the 'wrong place at the wrong time' from their perspective (which is useful as this perspective lends itself well to introducing the world) but later it is revealed that the Terrans are actually in the 'right place at the right time' from the Zerg perspective.

You've forget they retconned it to say that the Overmind needs a Terran (I guess?) to free the swarm. Still that is pretty minor since it doesn't really need to be a Terran. Presumably it was done because you know otherwise the Terrans would have no purpose in the zerg-protoss wars. The actual influence of Terran politics is neglible in all of this.

You never know, he might be an even bigger bad than papa Mengsk such that papa Mengsk is revealed to actually be the pragmatic good guy since the beginning in comparison to him!

That is pretty much what I am suspecting. Personally if they were to go that route they should make Valerian a full on mad Roman Emperor. You know a completely illogical and irrational disaster of a ruler who razes Korhal and Tarsonis so he can rebuild them in his vision.

[Turalyon]

Duke gets his ass kicked. Doesn't seem to have much of a point except to give the zerg an extra mission before Kerrigan hatches. That is pretty much all Mengsk does (so far!) against the zerg in all of StarCraft!

You're missing the point. The mission itself is largely throwaway but it does show that the Terrans are now taking a proactive stance against the aliens. At the least, it's 1 mission more than what is shown for the Confederates take on the alien situation.

Mengsk could've done a lot, you don't know - it's just that we are not privy to it because we are stuck with non-Terran perspectives.

Interesting that you say that he knows what he is doing is best for all Terrans as if you agree with his actions as supposed to saying that he thinks he is doing good.

In a way he is doing "good" by ensuring the survival of the Terrans through action as opposed to Confederate inaction. Yes, what he did at Tarsonis is morally reprehensible but moral good is not what I'm talking about.

You've forget they retconned it to say that the Overmind needs a Terran (I guess?) to free the swarm. Still that is pretty minor since it doesn't really need to be a Terran. Presumably it was done because you know otherwise the Terrans would have no purpose in the zerg-protoss wars. The actual influence of Terran politics is neglible in all of this.

Chalk it up to convenience in how the story must be told. Who says that the Terrans have to be important and have to have a distinct purpose to the Zerg-Protoss story anyway? Either way, I think the Terran politics are useful in grounding SC and make it more relatable since if we started just with the fantastical elements of it (the Protoss and Zerg), it would seem... too niche.

[Aldrius]

The main thing that separates the Dominion from the Confederacy is that the Dominion conflict is personal. (Both Raynor and Kerrigan have a grudge against Mengsk that's a lot more personal than their hatred for the confederacy.)

Not... every story element has to have a specific and driven purpose. That'd be kinda weird if it did.

[mr. peasant]

Interesting that you say that he knows what he is doing is best for all Terrans as if you agree with his actions as supposed to saying that he thinks he is doing good. Anyway all tyrants throughout history have thought that they were doing what was best for their people (such as oh Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) so that doesn't much about Mengsk not being a bad guy. That said I would prefer if Mengsk made some defense of his actions since it would add a bit of complexity and I would like to think that Mengsk thinks that the likes of Raynor and Kerrigan running things would be a disaster so Terrans are better off under his rule than not.

In a way he is doing "good" by ensuring the survival of the Terrans through action as opposed to Confederate inaction. Yes, what he did at Tarsonis is morally reprehensible but moral good is not what I'm talking about.

What I find really interesting is that the writers of SC1 (whether intentionally or not) wrote a universe with a very grey sense to morality with no one faction being truly good or truly evil; yet, the writers (at least the current flock) seem determined to interpret it in a black-and-white fashion.

For instance, in SC1, Mengsk was ruthless but in a purposeful manner (as opposed to be cruel for cruelty's sake). Of the three 'bad' things he did (using psi emitters first on Confederate troops, then on the Confederate capital world, and finally for abandoning Kerrigan), the first act was supported by the protagonists (meaning, they too are as responsible for it as he is, not to mention as 'evil' as him) while the third was simply being rational (you'd be sacrificing/endangering more lives than you'd save, assuming you saved any at all). Even the second one can be rationalised (to an extent) as being the smoothest way of transitioning from Confederate rule to Dominion rule without prolonging further the civil war and without destabilising the region. Meaning, for the average civilian outside of Tarsonis, this had the best outcome for him/her. Coupled with the Confederate's general lack of action and/or efficacy in stopping the Zerg invasion and you can make an argument for Mengsk's case; he may not be good but he's certainly not 'evil', just ruthless.

Likewise, the Zerg weren't actually 'evil', being the logical conclusion of the search for perfection. They were simply following their evolutionary programming in the only way they could - invading and assimilating other species. In a way, it is not incomparable to a religion's search for spiritual enlightenment that involves converting foreign cultures. And lastly, the Conclave was not entirely in the wrong.

While they were primarily guided by fear and prejudice (which is more a failing than something 'evil'), they did first try to trust the Dark Templar - accepting Tassadar's advice. Had Tassadar's advice worked, some sort of alliance (though probably not lasting peace) could be brokered. Instead, it did not; leading the Conclave to believe the Dark Templar were out to sabotage them. Hence, them continuing not to trust them until evidence to the contrary. Put it this way: if someone just scammed you last week, would you put your faith in him again unless he managed to prove that he was on the level?

All of this builds towards a rather grey sense of morality. Yet, since the original game, Blizzard has started depicting Mengsk as an evil dictator (which we have yet to actually see in the games) and view the Conclave as being entirely in the wrong (as seen by the Protoss protagonists' contempt of it even after its members were all killed (largely by said protagonists)). Basically, the interpretation of the factions boil down as such:

Terrans:
Raynor and allies = good
Mengsk and his government = bad

Protoss:
Tassadar, Zeratul and company = shining paragon of goodness
The Conclave = racist and completely devoid of any redeeming features a.k.a bad

[Laurentian]

Eh I'm pretty we were supposed to think that Raynor and Tassadar as the good guys and Mengsk and the overmind as bad guys, even in the original SC. Yes Mengsk and the Overmind had reasons for doing what they were doing but so does everyone. Also Mengsk being an evil dictator makes perfect sense since he like most (all?) successful revolutionaries overthrew the old government in favour of his own oppressive dictatorship that supposedly Gets Things Done (like oh Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).

Coupled with the Confederate's general lack of action and/or efficacy in stopping the Zerg invasion

Which Mengsk helped encourage, what with the Psi-Emitters and all. Also he destroyed Terran unity during an alien invasion, even causing said aliens to attack certain planets for his own personal benefit so his claims to be a unifying figure that can stop the zerg is a bunch of self serving nonsense.

Likewise, the Zerg weren't actually 'evil', being the logical conclusion of the search for perfection. They were simply following their evolutionary programming in the only way they could - invading and assimilating other species

So...the zerg are Nazis? You know consuming all sentinent life against their will strikes me as pretty evil. Didn't Tassadar give a big speech about how the overmind is the enemy of existence?

Anyway I don't buy moral relativism since it mostly nonsense. Don't see people defending the Holocaust or Apartheid using moral relativism.

Who says that the Terrans have to be important and have to have a distinct purpose to the Zerg-Protoss story anyway?

Because the story features three races who are supposed to be "balanced" (ugh! That word!) so having one being essentially irrelevant makes it a bunch of dead weight with no real purpose?

[mr. peasant]

Eh I'm pretty we were supposed to think that Raynor and Tassadar as the good guys and Mengsk and the overmind as bad guys, even in the original SC. Yes Mengsk and the Overmind had reasons for doing what they were doing but so does everyone. Also Mengsk being an evil dictator makes perfect sense since he like most (all?) successful revolutionaries overthrew the old government in favour of his own oppressive dictatorship that supposedly Gets Things Done (like oh Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).

My point exactly - the writers intended to categorise the characters and factions into good and bad camps but (accidentally?) wound up writing something morally greyer. Yes, I agree that Raynor and Tassadar are the protagonists and the Zerg the ultimate antagonist of the game. However, I wouldn't categorise them as villains since they are operating on a completely different moral framework than us.

Which Mengsk helped encourage, what with the Psi-Emitters and all. Also he destroyed Terran unity during an alien invasion, even causing said aliens to attack certain planets for his own personal benefit so his claims to be a unifying figure that can stop the zerg is a bunch of self serving nonsense.

He only started causing alien attacks at the very end. Until that point, the Confederates had yet to show much headway in fighting the Zerg, if at all. As for being self-serving, like I said - ruthless but not necessarily 'evil'.

Also, the part in bold - Raynor did the very same thing, twice (once in SC1, and once more in Wings of Liberty). If that is a sign of being 'evil' or immoral, then Raynor is just as guilty.

So...the zerg are Nazis? You know consuming all sentinent life against their will strikes me as pretty evil. Didn't Tassadar give a big speech about how the overmind is the enemy of existence?

Key word is assimilate. The conquered species aren't wiped out but integrated to become one race with the Zerg. In that regard, the Zerg are closer to the Roman Empire than to the Nazi regime.

[Turalyon]

Because the story features three races who are supposed to be "balanced" (ugh! That word!) so having one being essentially irrelevant makes it a bunch of dead weight with no real purpose?

"Balance" is a gameplay term that should not be conflated with story and lore. The setup for SC's story points heavily to the Terrans being "the third wheel" in all aspects and being the weaker of the three initially. As I said before, in terms of their (the Terran) presence in the story, it's a classic case of "wrong place, wrong time" - the Terrans are supposed to be doing there own thing but then get caught up in a shitstorm that happens to descend on them.

My point exactly - the writers intended to categorise the characters and factions into good and bad camps but (accidentally?) wound up writing something morally greyer.

Raynor did the very same thing, twice (once in SC1, and once more in Wings of Liberty). If that is a sign of being 'evil' or immoral, then Raynor is just as guilty.

Thumbs up for more ambiguity!!

I would have loved to seen that aspect expanded in WoL. Raynor's actions against the Dominion in WoL are effectively prohibiting the Dominion from forming an effective defense against the Zerg invasion - meaning more Terran lives being ultimately lost. No-one tends to think this in WoL because of the simplistic rendering of Raynor having his 'shit never stinking' and that he's never wrong when he makes decisions (even under the cloud of intoxication).

[Laurentian]

Also, the part in bold - Raynor did the very same thing, twice (once in SC1, and once more in Wings of Liberty). If that is a sign of being 'evil' or immoral, then Raynor is just as guilty

I agree actually. I was bothered by the fact that WOL seems to ignore Raynor, Kerrigan and Horner's culpability in Mengk's genocide when Raynor broadcasts the incriminating information about Arcturus. Or Raynor not realizing that his own "ends justify the means" beliefs were largely responsible for Mengsk getting into power (twice!). You know when I heard Raynor agreeing with Tosh about the need to stop the next Mengsk I couldn't help but think that "that's pretty rich coming from a guy who is largely responsible for Mengsk in the first place!"

Or that Raynor's justifies allying with Valerian since overthrowing the Dominion won't do much if the zerg kills everybody when he was busy trying to overthrow the Dominion during the zerg invasion. Not to mention that Valerian can ally with Raynor before or after the revolution missions when if Raynor's revolution succeeds Valerian might not have a throne! Or that with all the rioting going on is taking out half the fleet a good idea? And um what is going to happen to Raynor's revolution after allying with the Dominion to defeat Kerrigan? Seems more like sloppy story telling than any attempt to cause ambiguity to me.

Personally I do get the feeling the Mengsk and Raynor are very similar in the fact that it does not appear that they have any real idea what their revolutions are actually going to accomplish.

The conquered species aren't wiped out

Only mostly wiped out and survivors turned into mindless abominations. Much better.

By the way Raynor is far more pro-active against the zerg than Arcturus could even be. I mean he helped defeat the fricken overmind!