How did they screw up the single player that bad?

[Turalyon]

I love this back and forth. Please continue

[Wankey]

Without posts like mine there was no discussion on these forums. People seriously need to stop attacking me sometimes. The first 5 replies to my post seriously show that this community needs a wake up call. It's pretty much dead especially when the elite has the attitude that all subjects are done, and there's no need to talk any longer.

[Todie]

There are so many angles and leyers of this potential discussion that im hesitant about going in to it at all; i've probably read less than half of the thread, but ill just post my two cents for the sake of it:

someone mentioned bad dialogue scripting and im inclined to agree; this and the non-linear approach to the campaign gave a dissapointing result in terms of storytelling; the campaign and the in-between bits arguably has some epic bits and pieces, but the way it fits together and how the full story is presented overall, clearly falls short of that of sc or sc/bw.

im not one to nitpick details about this sort of thing but it seems clear that these are among the core issues with sc2 SP.

[Romla]

To Drake Clawfang: This is going nowhere. You think the story is good, I think not, many people referenced articles which criticized the story, you don't want to read them. Then post some articles where the story is praised and I will read them contrary to you. But how Gradius said before, Blizzard knows, so this whole discussion is maybe really useless.

[Drake Clawfang]

To Drake Clawfang: This is going nowhere. You think the story is good, I think not, many people referenced articles which criticized the story, you don't want to read them. Then post some articles where the story is praised and I will read them contrary to you. But how Gradius said before, Blizzard knows, so this whole discussion is maybe really useless.

No no, see, I don't have to link articles praising the story, I make my own points. But very well, you cannot or will not refute my arguments any longer, so thanks for playing. How disappointing.

[TheEconomist]

--delete--

[TheEconomist]

These are very interesting arguments.

Writing an argument takes time and your "argument" (even less than mine, X = Y) wasn't worth it. There are plenty of similarities between StarCraft and WarCraft but none of them are the ones you mentioned.

Without posts like mine there was no discussion on these forums.

You don't discuss. You bitch. You don't even rant or critique. Just spam insults at the developers.

Any discussion that results from your posts happens simply because you mention a topic. You do nothing to further conversation.

And, yes, in my opinion, this topic is done. I haven't seen anything in this topic that is new. It's just the same complaints over and over with, maybe, if we're lucky, a new scapegoat or specific example. In fact, most of this was said within the first week of release. It's been over a year since release. At this point, most of you are just rephrasing articles (many from SCL) and previous posts.

The way I see it, either HOTS will redeem the series or the series will only be a MP series in most people's eyes. I don't see anything other than that worth discussing other than to simply discuss to let off steam. But, if that's the case, don't do it under the guise of helping the community or the developer.

[Alar]

-Glances around a bit before talking in a cheerful tone-

I like it!

Yeah, the story wasn't as good as the original. Yeah, Blizzard AND fans have seen and admitted to the faults. Does that mean it was a bad game? Nope. I still really enjoyed it, even if it was cheesy, simple, and fairly cliched.

Hell, when it originally came out I bemoaned the lack of a greater narrative flow, the lack of explanation about Jimmy and Tychus's past together, the missing comrades and characters that could have appeared (The Dark Templar Trilogy? Professor Ramsey would've been awesome in this game). I also hope that HotS ends up being longer than 20 missions. 23-24 would be much nicer, in my opinion. There's just so much potential story they could flesh out and explain.

[Aldrius]

Thinking about it recently, I think my main problem with the story is that there was just no sense of narrative more than anything. And that's not because the stories were too incidental or because it was a 'choose your own adventure'. There was just nothing cohesive about any of it.

Like I remember one game once upon a time had like... the same cutscenes would always play after you'd finished a certain number of missions or quests. No matter what order you did them in. Like, Mass Effect for example. You choose the order you do planets in, but no matter what you still get the same amount of story.

In general what SC2 seemed to do was have a mission, then have a cutscene talking about that mission, then they'd go bugger off and do something completely separate that was unrelated.

As opposed to the original StarCraft where the cutscene would talk about what they were planning to do next, than what they'd already done.

I think Kerrigan's introduction into the story is really the perfect example. The 'big foot' shot was one thing. That was kinda... goofy, but somewhat understandable. But what happens when she shows up in the actual STORY?

All she says is:

"I forgot how resourceful you were. I won't make that mistake again."

Then Raynor goes "Kerrigan..." and that's the end of it.

Like... what? That's it? I mean we get a cutscene following introducing Tychus to Kerrigan, where they talk about how Raynor dated her (and that actually is a cool scene) but... like... what?

They're setting up this whole subplot of how Raynor's going to need to choose between killing her and saving her. But they haven't even bothered to establish her character. Even if we know who she is, it's been 10+ years since Brood War came out. The audience needs a refresher on what a bad-ass she is beyond fighting her later on.

Like, her most defining characteristic as a character is that she's basically the universe's biggest troll. She does evil things and then she taunts the crap out of whoever she's done them to. This is... such a lame entrance for her. And it sets the tone for her character for the entire game.

Compare that to her introduction in Brood War. Where she appears, pretty much calls everyone a moron, acts smug and self-assured and then manages to convince the Protoss to hear her out. But in StarCraft 2? After 4 years all she's got to say is "I forgot how resourceful you were"? This is the point where they should be establishing what she's been doing, why she's back, what she wants. Even if they're vague. I know Raynor said "She's come to finish the game." but that's not... really an answer. They just banked WAYYY too much on player's nostalgia seeing them through the story.

I know I'm obsessing over two lines of dialogue in the campaign, but this is a really key scene, and they totally dropped the ball on it.

[Gradius]

-Glances around a bit before talking in a cheerful tone-

I like it!

Yeah, the story wasn't as good as the original. Yeah, Blizzard AND fans have seen and admitted to the faults. Does that mean it was a bad game? Nope. I still really enjoyed it, even if it was cheesy, simple, and fairly cliched.

Hell, when it originally came out I bemoaned the lack of a greater narrative flow, the lack of explanation about Jimmy and Tychus's past together, the missing comrades and characters that could have appeared (The Dark Templar Trilogy? Professor Ramsey would've been awesome in this game). I also hope that HotS ends up being longer than 20 missions. 23-24 would be much nicer, in my opinion. There's just so much potential story they could flesh out and explain.

The SP was still saved b/c of the good level design and the sheer skill & attention-to-detail of the art team. The in-game cinematics were great IMO. If the story team showed half the dedication of the art team, this would be a AAA title. Seriously, you see on the DVD an artist being tasked with creating a larvae and saying "The larva is a dumb 3 segmented worm but I wanted to look at it and say that's the best dumb 3 segmented worm we've ever created." Meanwhile the writing team is spewing out gems like "my brother went off to the mines last week. he disappeared".

And, yes, in my opinion, this topic is done. I haven't seen anything in this topic that is new. It's just the same complaints over and over with, maybe, if we're lucky, a new scapegoat or specific example. In fact, most of this was said within the first week of release. It's been over a year since release. At this point, most of you are just rephrasing articles (many from SCL) and previous posts.

Tru dat, but the repetition is because some people still think the storyline was good.

The way I see it, either HOTS will redeem the series or the series will only be a MP series in most people's eyes.

It's 99% going to be the latter, and people will still be surprised. Blizz plans out their stories way in advance, and it's doubtful they might have even incorporated any feedback from the WoL criticism, apart from maybe changing some dialog. Unless there was a major staffing change, there's no reason to assume we're going to be getting anything that's not just more of the same. Sooner people accept this the better off they'll be. :P