Unit removals possible for HOTS

[Drake Clawfang]

What if the Carrier could build different kinds of attack drones?

Interceptors - basic drone
Shuriken - damages units on contact, less base damage than Interceptor but bonus against small units. Glows when it is "active", that is when it is in damage-dealing mode Does splash damage in a line like Banshee or Colossus. To prevent overlap with HT and Phoenix, could be atg only perhaps.
Psi Drone - damages units, less base damage than Interceptor, but drains energy from units it hits. Possibly have other effects (maybe like Feedback, units with energy take extra damage?)
Missile Drone - less base damage than Interceptor, bonus damage against armored units and structures

Each Carrier could only hold one type of drone at a time, but when all it's out of drones you can stock a new kind. This would come with the option to recycle drones, so if you send out an Interceptor-stocked carrier and see the opponent massing Mutalisks, you can click Recycle Drones to convert the Interceptors into minerals, and then the Carrier is empty so you can queue up Shurikens, letting you quickly adapt the Carrier's arsenal to the opponent's army.

[Drake Clawfang]

Brainstorming more ideas for D-squid's list of units we could afford to lose/have improved.

Reaper and Banshee. - The Reaper is meant to be a base raider, something the Banshee does. D-squid notes the Reaper's main advantage over the Hellion is the cliff-jumping and anti-building attack, but with the Medivac the cliff-jumping isn't as useful. D-squid notes the Raven, Viking, Hellion and Medivac have its harassment roles filled. Wacky idea, but what if the Banshee got the Reaper's anti-structure attack, which has increased range compared to its normal attack? This lets it function as a siege engine somewhat, destroying stationary defenses that would hassle those other units. The Reaper meanwhile, perhaps could be cut?

Zealot - D-squid seems to indicate it isn't as versatile as Marines or Zerglings. Marines provide effective GTA with stims and Medivacs, and Zerglings can morph into Banelings. To increase the Zealot's versatility, another wacky idea - what if, with the Dark Shrine as a requirement, the Zealot could upgrade into a Dark Templar? You could go a step further and allow it to upgrade into a High Templar as well. However, DTs and HTs would still be constructable from the Gateway. As Blizzard lets DTs become Archons once the opponent gets detectors, so could the Zealot become a DT or HT once it's no longer as useful.

Observer - IMO, observer is meant to be a scout and a spy. What if it let you see what the opponent is building/researching in buildings in its sight range? Or got some sort of ability that lets it temporarily evade detection so it can more easily slip into an opponent's base unseen? I really like the former idea more though. Could also let you see inside of Bunkers and transports so if you catch an opponent setting up a drop, you not only see the ships, you see what's going to spring from inside.

Phoenix - As I said, adjust Graviton Beam into an area-of-effect spell that immobilizes units in the area of effect and doesn't let them attack air units, while redirecting the Phoenix's blasts downwards. Kinda like Graviton Beam plus Distruption Web I think.

Archon - Agreed we need to get the Twilight Archon back, though I'm not sure on Maelstrom for it. IMO the Archon is meant to be a siege unit and meatshield. Maybe some sort of buffing spell for nearby units, like Guardian Shield but different. Say something like "Psi Surge" - when the Archon attacks an enemy, it releases a blast of energy that gives a small increase to the shields of friendly units in a small radius. Get several Archons fighting alongside your army and that's a lot of extra damage soaking going around.

Mothership - I won a unit design with it, there's my Redeemer support aerial caster. I could dig up a link if you'd like .

Overseer, Infester, Corrupter- I'd like more elaboration on the problems with these ones before I come up with ideas.

[DemolitionSquid]

Reaper and Banshee. - The Reaper is meant to be a base raider, something the Banshee does. D-squid notes the Reaper's main advantage over the Hellion is the cliff-jumping and anti-building attack, but with the Medivac the cliff-jumping isn't as useful. D-squid notes the Raven, Viking, Hellion and Medivac have its harassment roles filled. Wacky idea, but what if the Banshee got the Reaper's anti-structure attack, which has increased range compared to its normal attack? This lets it function as a siege engine somewhat, destroying stationary defenses that would hassle those other units. The Reaper meanwhile, perhaps could be cut?

If any race could handle two siege units, its the Terran. But the Banshee is a HORRIBLE choice for it, for two reasons: cost/tech level, and cloak. The Banshee is far cheaper and faster to acquire than a Brood Lord or Carrier is, and its already a bane on mineral lines. Give it 9 range so it can avoid turrets and Marines and Queens and Stalkers even better? Ridiculous. Then there's the addition of cloak. Its already called "the flying DT," do we really want a "flying Lurker?"

Zealot - D-squid seems to indicate it isn't as versatile as Marines or Zerglings. Marines provide effective GTA with stims and Medivacs, and Zerglings can morph into Banelings. To increase the Zealot's versatility, another wacky idea - what if, with the Dark Shrine as a requirement, the Zealot could upgrade into a Dark Templar? You could go a step further and allow it to upgrade into a High Templar as well. However, DTs and HTs would still be constructable from the Gateway. As Blizzard lets DTs become Archons once the opponent gets detectors, so could the Zealot become a DT or HT once it's no longer as useful.

I could see the use of converting all your unneeded Zealots into Templar late game, but the lore works strongly against it. It takes a long long time for Protoss warriors to master the khala and void energies required for their skills. A Zealot suddenly becoming a Templar on the field is not the same as two Templar (who already have far power psionic power than a Zealot) merging into an Archon. There's also the matter of how OP it could become to simply destroy all your enemies detection then swarm them with a horde of new DT's at a level you couldn't normally reach with warp gates, or to overwhelm with just as many new HT's. Their cost would have to be balanced against the cost of warping in a new Templar from scratch.

Observer - IMO, observer is meant to be a scout and a spy. What if it let you see what the opponent is building/researching in buildings in its sight range? Or got some sort of ability that lets it temporarily evade detection so it can more easily slip into an opponent's base unseen? I really like the former idea more though. Could also let you see inside of Bunkers and transports so if you catch an opponent setting up a drop, you not only see the ships, you see what's going to spring from inside.

I suggested an ability for the Observer long ago to do exactly as you said: stop another unit or buildings detection for a short period. Even 5 seconds would be enough time to let the Observer slip by a turret, or let a few DT finish off a base. It would be very useful in combat paired with DT's, Hallucination, and the Mothership, increasing the usefulness of all 3.

Phoenix - As I said, adjust Graviton Beam into an area-of-effect spell that immobilizes units in the area of effect and doesn't let them attack air units, while redirecting the Phoenix's blasts downwards. Kinda like Graviton Beam plus Distruption Web I think.

I'm not a huge fan of this. I wouldn't mind an ability, call it "Gravity Well" to push all units and attacks downwards, but it doesn't fit on a unit called a "Phoenix," known for rising up.

Archon - Agreed we need to get the Twilight Archon back, though I'm not sure on Maelstrom for it. IMO the Archon is meant to be a siege unit and meatshield. Maybe some sort of buffing spell for nearby units, like Guardian Shield but different. Say something like "Psi Surge" - when the Archon attacks an enemy, it releases a blast of energy that gives a small increase to the shields of friendly units in a small radius. Get several Archons fighting alongside your army and that's a lot of extra damage soaking going around.

Maelstrom was just an example of the power the Dark Archon had through spell. Honestly I'm not sure what ability I'd give the Archon right now, I just feel like its missing "something." Its not epic enough.

Mothership - I won a unit design with it, there's my Redeemer support aerial caster. I could dig up a link if you'd like .

My preferred plan is to actually remove the Carrier and make the Mothership slightly weaker and slightly cheaper with another ability. So instead of rarely seeing the Carrier or Mothership, we'd see more the Mothership as a whole.

Overseer, Infester, Corrupter- I'd like more elaboration on the problems with these ones before I come up with ideas.

Its a complex subject, I'll have to get back to you on these 3 units.

[Drake Clawfang]

If any race could handle two siege units, its the Terran. But the Banshee is a HORRIBLE choice for it, for two reasons: cost/tech level, and cloak. The Banshee is far cheaper and faster to acquire than a Brood Lord or Carrier is, and its already a bane on mineral lines. Give it 9 range so it can avoid turrets and Marines and Queens and Stalkers even better? Ridiculous. Then there's the addition of cloak. Its already called "the flying DT," do we really want a "flying Lurker?"

Well in my idea the increased range is only for the anti-building attack. So you'll avoid turrets but not units. Could also just plain remove Cloak, perhaps. Or, introduce an altogether new unit for the sieging.

I could see the use of converting all your unneeded Zealots into Templar late game, but the lore works strongly against it.

That's never stopped Blizzard before has it? According to the lore, an HT and DT merging into an Archon should turn every Zerg in a four-mile radius should into a blackened husk.

There's also the matter of how OP it could become to simply destroy all your enemies detection then swarm them with a horde of new DT's at a level you couldn't normally reach with warp gates, or to overwhelm with just as many new HT's. Their cost would have to be balanced against the cost of warping in a new Templar from scratch.

Agreed for sure, the Zealot's cost plus the cost of the change would be greater than the base Templar.

I suggested an ability for the Observer long ago to do exactly as you said: stop another unit or buildings detection for a short period. Even 5 seconds would be enough time to let the Observer slip by a turret, or let a few DT finish off a base. It would be very useful in combat paired with DT's, Hallucination, and the Mothership, increasing the usefulness of all 3.

What about the other suggestion, viewing an opponent's production?

I'm not a huge fan of this. I wouldn't mind an ability, call it "Gravity Well" to push all units and attacks downwards, but it doesn't fit on a unit called a "Phoenix," known for rising up.

Fair enough. As you said though, the Phoenix can't win you the game because it can't attack buildings. Overload wouldn't solve that, though it would definitely be good micro..

Maelstrom was just an example of the power the Dark Archon had through spell. Honestly I'm not sure what ability I'd give the Archon right now, I just feel like its missing "something." Its not epic enough.

What about the Psi Surge idea? Or, perhaps inverse it - Archon releases a shockwave when it attacks that affects nearby enemies in a negative way, perhaps in a manner similar to the Marauder?

[DemolitionSquid]

Well in my idea the increased range is only for the anti-building attack. So you'll avoid turrets but not units. Could also just plain remove Cloak, perhaps. Or, introduce an altogether new unit for the sieging.

So the plan is remove Banshee, introduce Siege Banshee? lol

That's never stopped Blizzard before has it? According to the lore, an HT and DT merging into an Archon should turn every Zerg in a four-mile radius should into a blackened husk.

The solution here is that Blizzard needs better limits.

What about the other suggestion, viewing an opponent's production?

If it was a passive ability, it wouldn't help with the lack of interaction, and if it was an active ability, it'd be a stepping stone ability because good players (pros) can usually guess whats being made just by seeing the tech structures and common strategies, for all races.

Fair enough. As you said though, the Phoenix can't win you the game because it can't attack buildings. Overload wouldn't solve that, though it would definitely be good micro..

I just hate the Phoenix. It has no reason to exist because the Corsair already existed. The "can't hit buildings" thing bothers me because it actually goes against Blizzard's design goals, I swear I remember them saying they made the Brood Lord morph from the Corruptor instead of the Mutalisk because they didn't want the Corruptor to be useless once all the enemy air was dead.

What about the Psi Surge idea? Or, perhaps inverse it - Archon releases a shockwave when it attacks that affects nearby enemies in a negative way, perhaps in a manner similar to the Marauder?

Perhaps a short AoE stun, a blend of maelstrom and concussive shot. I'm not sold on the idea though.

[Drake Clawfang]

Only problem there is that the ability would have to have a cooldown, or else a small group of Archons could keep the opponent stunned indefinitely. But yeah, could work.

[Wankey]

My suggestion, tweak how fungals infestation works, make it so it doesn't immobilize flying units, or maybe only slows them down.

Also change how concussive shell works, and force field should take a look at.

Concussive shell should only work against mechanical units or armored units.
Force field should only stop armored units.

[Drake Clawfang]

Wasn't there already an entire thread explaining to you the Protoss need Force Field to fend off early rushes? Making them only effect armored units would render them instantly half as effective since the base units of all three races would go right through. If Force Fields are bugging you so much bring some massive units and plow through them.

[Wankey]

Wasn't there already an entire thread explaining to you the Protoss need Force Field to fend off early rushes? Making them only effect armored units would render them instantly half as effective since the base units of all three races would go right through. If Force Fields are bugging you so much bring some massive units and plow through them.

If you need force fields to defend early rush then that's a fundamental design issue not a spell issue. It means your early game units are too weak and most players are relying on a spell to stop gameplay until you are strong enough to play.

More like a NR force field than anything.

[Drake Clawfang]

"that's a fundamental design issue not a spell issue." - And part of the design is the reliance on the spell, in the same way Psionic Storm is a big part of protoss play. That's like saying that the Terran need to wall off their base means that supply depos shouldn't be able to lower anymore. I'll say it again, if you're having too many problems with force fields then bring massive units. Or, control your opponent better so you can pick the scene of the fights and thus can get into a position where force field is less effective.