Unit removals possible for HOTS

[Kimera757]

Yes I know. Thor does not equal goliath. But it replaces goliath.

No, it doesn't. Last time I checked, the goliath was better at GtA than GtG. The thor is the opposite. It also has powerful anti-ground abilities which can stun opponents.

You might not like the thor, but you shouldn't make up stuff about it.

[mythology]

Well anyways, to shift gears for a second (or get back on topic). I wouldn't mind seeing the ghost go in order to make way for the specter. I always liked that unit & wondered how it'd work out in multiplayer.

this does not support the removal of ghost, but it's clear that blizzard has an obsession with the spectre.

it was just a story idea for a ceased game, an elite enemy to fight the player. because of wings of liberty, the spectre is now a unit with his own abilities. from the looks of the heart of the swarm trailer, the spectre is coming back yet again. yes those are spectres with nova, not normal ghosts.

just saying the unit you like seems to have a strong possibility with the game and pointing out how blizzard fooling around with it continuously.

if there was a starcraft multiplayer shooter comming out tomorrow, bets would be there would be a spectre in it.

Not that I dislike the ghost by any means, but there obviously wouldn't be enough room for both of them...maybe you could have your ghost become specters. It would be a deliberate one time choice that would effect all current ghosts and once implemented, you'd only have access to specters from then on, an it would be irreversible, so you'd really have to think hard on which would suit your overall game plan.

Specters could be balanced more or less how they were in WoL singleplayer, with the added restriction that you'd no longer be able to calldown nukes.

what you say here is what makes me want to reply. you've made me remember what another game did that's just like you said.

in warhammer 40k dawn of war 1, the tau race tech tree had this option where you could choose to tech hammerhead gunships or krootox. once you've chosen it was irreversible i think.

this adds to the discussion of possibilities.

edit:

towards the goliath talk. isn't the difference between the goliath and the thor is that the goliath was basically a mobile turret and it didn't really dominate air until it got it's broodwar upgrade? while the thor is a new and different unit not based upon the goliath's concepts? of course you could say the same about dragoons being mobile photon cannons.

[Drake Clawfang]

Yes I know. Thor does not equal goliath. But it replaces goliath.

I want goliath back. Thors are just the result of over zealous production values set by Christ Metzen and friends. What other unit used to take 1/4 the screen size with giant bazooka cannons that required it to be built on the battlefield + have unique models + revamped until it was "Forced" to work.

It's still not balanced.

I have to agree, the Thor, along with a lot of other units, seemed to be constantly tweaked and retweaked to work. Ya know guys, if the unit concept just isn't working, maybe it isn't that you need to balance it, maybe it's because it just doesn't work. Is the Thor of today really even the same unit as the Thor we saw in the original Terran demo vid?

[mythology]

Ya know guys, if the unit concept just isn't working, maybe it isn't that you need to balance it, maybe it's because it just doesn't work.

of course there is the unit concept where they don't care if it works. "it's cool so lets put it in there!" approach. worry about balance later.

you gotta make pretty units. the reaper is ugly to me.


to add to the topic would you consider blizzard is willing to remove buildings as well as units? replacing buildings with new buildings that do new cool stuff.

for example. i love radar but it's not really necessary or needed. i get it just for the fun of having it but i can live without it.

photon cannons. in sc1 they were fun to cheese with, it's not so fun in sc2 anymore. if you could replace cannons with something else or add something to them to make them as advanced as bunkers and colonies, what would ya think up? what if they replaced them with dark templar cannons? maybe they could cloak later on in the game.

can't think of anything to talk about for zerg. nothing to remove. maybe add. can't think of anything atm.

[Drake Clawfang]

Photon Cannons strike me as uncreative compared to other defenses. Zerg can uproot and move their defenses around, Terrans can salvage bunkers to the same effect. I recall Photon Cannons were once "phase cannons" that could move like the Zerg colonies, a bit too similar but they need more than just being turrets.

[DemolitionSquid]

Photon Cannons strike me as uncreative compared to other defenses. Zerg can uproot and move their defenses around, Terrans can salvage bunkers to the same effect. I recall Photon Cannons were once "phase cannons" that could move like the Zerg colonies, a bit too similar but they need more than just being turrets.

Phase cannons existed first. They could turn into a vulnerable energy-ball state and move to replant anywhere in pylon power. This mobility was simultaneously removed from the Cannon and given to the Spine and Spore Crawler because, and I quote," it felt more Zergy as an ability."

[almostfamous]

I wouldn't mind if the Photon cannon got an upgrade to attack speed (whether it be a balance and therefore constant change or an upgrade) to keep it viable later in the game. The bunker of course can be loaded with different units and salvaged, spore and spine crawlers can move, but also be healed rapidly with Queen back up, which leads me to feel the Protoss may have gotten the short end of the bargain with base defenses (but it can is GtA and GtG while being a detector...). However; I believe that the cannon would benefit enormously with an attack speed upgrade to help keep up with the threat presented by late game pressure. Of course, it would not need to be a large increase, but enough to keep it effective against more than just tier one units.

[phazonjunkie]

Yes I know. Thor does not equal goliath. But it replaces goliath.

I want goliath back. Thors are just the result of over zealous production values set by Christ Metzen and friends. What other unit used to take 1/4 the screen size with giant bazooka cannons that required it to be built on the battlefield + have unique models + revamped until it was "Forced" to work.

You already have the goliath back. It just goes by a different name, is much more mobile, and produced from a different building.

The Thor doesn't 'replace' anything. It fulfills a role that the terrans sorely lacked in BW.

It's still not balanced.

I don't like it/don't find it interesting to use ≠ unbalanced. I personally don't particularly care for siege tanks. I feel they were far too much of a 'crutch' unit in BW, and to an extent have become such in SC2. But I wouldn't go so far as to say they're not balanced.

[Sheliek]

I wouldn't mind if the Photon cannon got an upgrade to attack speed (whether it be a balance and therefore constant change or an upgrade) to keep it viable later in the game. The bunker of course can be loaded with different units and salvaged, spore and spine crawlers can move, but also be healed rapidly with Queen back up, which leads me to feel the Protoss may have gotten the short end of the bargain with base defenses (but it can is GtA and GtG while being a detector...). However; I believe that the cannon would benefit enormously with an attack speed upgrade to help keep up with the threat presented by late game pressure. Of course, it would not need to be a large increase, but enough to keep it effective against more than just tier one units.

Would an ability to double the combat and out-of-combat shield regeneration of photon cannons be imbalanced?

[Kimera757]

There's no such thing as "combat regeneration" of shields

IMO, it would not unbalance base defenses to give them the same upgrades as units. (So if photon cannons got Ground Weapons and spine crawlers got Melee Attacks it would still be balanced.)