The Zerg Problem -- Statistical Analysis

[SoFool]

Exactly, Z is a whole different race compared to T & P because they rely on numbers in battles. Imagine a swarm of hydras suddenly just cliff-climb into your base, it will be too easy = GG.

[Nicol Bolas]

A "Zerg-style" cliff-climber, if we forget about Mutalisks for a second, is something I think D-Squid proposed at some point. It's basically a unit that becomes a ramp.

It fits very well with what the Zerg are. It's a support unit that makes other units better and more mobile. But because it's a single unit, it can be taken out before it gets used, and thus prevent mobility.

Of course, this has some role overlap with the Nydus Worm. Which is probably why the Zerg don't need a cliff climber.

[Rake]

A "Zerg-style" cliff-climber, if we forget about Mutalisks for a second, is something I think D-Squid proposed at some point. It's basically a unit that becomes a ramp.

That unit was awsome. In some ways, better than the nydus worm.

[MetalHeadClan]

4. Not 6. The Lurker and Brood Lord are both support units. (And I think the Lurker could actually use some more work to make it exciting... instead of just bumping it up a tier.) I don't think we'll be seeing any major changes until the expansion really. Maybe we'll get one or two new units in the beta, but otherwise...? I don't think the Zerg need MAJOR changes, no. I think the line-up is fine it just needs some re-working. In fact the only race that I think needs a new unit at this point is the Terrans. That's it.

ahh well about the Lurker... i saw at sc2 armory that you will be able to upgrade his range to siege range. i think it's pretty... "exciting" :O

Edit: after reading some more of your response...

The diffrences between hydra cliff-climbers and mutalisks is the tech :O but still not such a good idea.
tough i do think the old units need to be changed in SOME way, for exsample giving the hydra poison attack [passive].
i just dont want to use the same zergiling again :O i want them to be diffrent even if it's just a little.

About giving the zerg a cliff climber... cant the infestor climb cliffs? i mean borrow - move under a cliff - unborrow, make sense right? but isn't it too good? i dont think so... maybe as a surprise attack, a distraction. an harss but not more then that.

About the ATA zerg units... is corruptor realy enough? i just didn't saw a serious air battle
[i saw 1 corruptor here 1 there but not a mass of them] can they realy take out a battle crisour or a mother ship and how many of them i need to take them out.

The only thing that realy worries me is that P&T have flying epic units and Z have land epic unit which cant attack air...
so isn't air a great counter to the zerg race? can the corruptor alone take the epic flying army of the two other races and still the zerg player will be able to have some ground units?
i am sure that the hydra cant take them. i pretty sure about that because using hydra against smart tarren which is using battle crisours is usless - especialy in sc2 where you cant see units attacking you from high ground...

P.S
The nybs worm it's THE BEST THING FOR ffa with your friends...
Especialy with your friends because only from them you can ask for mercy :O only that way the game can last long enough so you'll get to use it...
[maybe in 1v1 as well but it must be very long game or maybe 2v2 also]

And about the baneling..
I think they are great but the zerg already have light unit counters [roach can be one and ofc the zergling]
so why dont make the baneling anti-mechanics unit? i think it'll be better... just an offer i dont know if it can realy work.
anyway borrowing the banes in the right place and then unborrowing in the right time is just too exciting to be left behind ^^

[Nicol Bolas]

About the ATA zerg units... is corruptor realy enough? i just didn't saw a serious air battle
[i saw 1 corruptor here 1 there but not a mass of them] can they realy take out a battle crisour or a mother ship and how many of them i need to take them out.

Why not? Is something wrong with the Corruptor's damage output, Hp, or cost (cheapest AtA unit) that would make it incapable of killing BCs?

so isn't air a great counter to the zerg race?

Um, no?

The Phoenix can only attack one ground target at a time. The Zerg deal in swarms. At best, Phoenixes can snipe specific high-priority targets (Overseers, Infestors, Queens).

Void Rays specialize in high Hp units, which the Zerg have... 2 of. They'll be great for Ultralisks, but those are Tier 3. And Brood Lords should have Zerg air support (Mutalisks and Corruptors).

Carriers are... Carriers.

The nybs worm it's THE BEST THING FOR ffa with your friends...
Especialy with your friends because only from them you can ask for mercy :O only that way the game can last long enough so you'll get to use it...
[maybe in 1v1 as well but it must be very long game or maybe 2v2 also]

WTF? Nydus is Tier 2. If you can't use one when you want to, you're not paying attention. Unless you expect every 1v1 game to end in Tier 1 for some reason.

the zerg already have light unit counters [roach can be one and ofc the zergling]

Zerglings are ground generalists, not anti-light specialists. Cost-for-cost, Banelings are superior at killing light units due to AoE. And Roaches are Tier 2 tank units.

[MetalHeadClan]

WTF? Nydus is Tier 2. If you can't use one when you want to, you're not paying attention. Unless you expect every 1v1 game to end in Tier 1 for some reason.

Excuse me i meant that nydus worm... it just that... i cant find it use-full at 1v1 game. =/ think i'm wrong? i mean it's such a bitch to upgrade the overlord speed movment [to get faster to the location where you want the creep] bulid the nydus network spotting the creep at the enemy base [which takes time] and then build the nydus worm... as i see it untill the worm finished bulding you - or will be rushed by the enemy - or the enemy will be already in a half way to his base [in the worst case]. and what if the enemy is on his base when you start the invasion i doubt that the nydus will live long if so you lost alot of time and money... maybe i just imagen it slow-motion but sorry i didn't see it in a real game yet so i dont know.

Zerglings are ground generalists, not anti-light specialists. Cost-for-cost, Banelings are superior at killing light units due to AoE. And Roaches are Tier 2 tank units.

well light units is like marine for exsample right? well as far as i know ling is a bitch against marine... :O isn't they?
and i saw interview with blizzard about the banes and the roaches.. they say that the bane and the roach use to serv the same goal only that the roaches are hard to kill and the bane are suicide critters... are you saying they already solve that problem? and turned the roach to a tank [i know he was always kind of a tank but it wasn't his propuse do you say that they already changed it?]

Why not? Is something wrong with the Corruptor's damage output, Hp, or cost (cheapest AtA unit) that would make it incapable of killing BCs?

re-thinking about it by taking the seconed gas at your main expo it's possible to get them massed i guess... it's just that at broodwar i never maneged to get "mass" muta and because the cost the same... i thought it'll be the same.

[Nicol Bolas]

it's just that at broodwar i never maneged to get "mass" muta and because the cost the same... i thought it'll be the same.

Then it's clear that you're not very good at StarCraft, then. So your opinion on what can or cannot be done is not particularly informed.

[SoFool]

The only thing that realy worries me is that P&T have flying epic units and Z have land epic unit which cant attack air...
so isn't air a great counter to the zerg race? can the corruptor alone take the epic flying army of the two other races and still the zerg player will be able to have some ground units?

Z already has that problem in SC1, if that's the case then why don't T & P players just go ahead with air force build orders all the way instead of relying on ground?

i am sure that the hydra cant take them. i pretty sure about that because using hydra against smart tarren which is using battle crisours is usless - especialy in sc2 where you cant see units attacking you from high ground...

Oh you have no idea how devasting it is for hydras to pwn BCs.

Yea we all know that we can't see units from high ground, but only a noob will just stand there & get hit instead of moving away.