Opinions and effectiveness of Medivac?

[Nicol Bolas]

why do you need the critical mass of 4 or 5.

I said nothing about a "critical mass", and I certainly didn't mention specific numbers. But as with Medics, the more you have, the better off you are (to a point).

A ratio of 1:6 or 1:8 seems perfectly reasonable. Depending on the infantry type, of course.

And if 4-6, I dont think that the unit is that much of a success.

Why do specific numbers both you so much? Is there some problem with having 4-6 Medivacs, if that's what it takes to give decent healing to infantry? Obviously, there's a problem if the cost stays where it is, but why is having 5 Medivacs with your M&M ball not successful?

[Iceman_jkh]

As I stated, its arbitrary, cos I havent played the game, but from what I've seen, 2 wasnt enough for a group of 8 Marauders. Therefore it would be even worse for a group of 16 marines.

I dont believe that they are effective on a ratio of 1:6 or 1:8.

IMHO 4-6 units feels like a mini squad in itself, rather than a support role for a squad.

Essentially, I feel the problem is that you require 4-6 (of the current) medivacs to provide sufficient healing to support an infantry force of 15-20 units. Thats a ratio of 1:4, not 1:5+.

[SaharaDrac]

Medivacs hold 4 Marauders, and heal them pretty efficiently. They hold 8 Marines, and because of their lower HP, are able to heal all 8 at a similar rate.

[spychi]

WTF? That is imbalanced as hell. The Protoss get, not only a transport unit, but for a mere 50 gas, the ability to build units anywhere? Meanwhile the Terrans have to pay 100 gas for a single transport?

No, that's getting fixed in the beta, if it stays that way until beta. Man, the BlizzCon build was way Protoss imbalanced.

The cooldown for every unit makes warp-in balanced, you buy the upgrade in the cybernetics core building. You need to have more than 4 Warp Gates to make any use from the warp-in, otherwise you are only loosing time.

The Nydus worms don't have any cooldowns and how I see it, the Network is much much easier to use than the warp-in.

I saw very little number of players that used that technology.

[Nicol Bolas]

I dont believe that they are effective on a ratio of 1:6 or 1:8.

And? Sounds like some number tweaking to me.

Essentially, I feel the problem is that you require 4-6 (of the current) medivacs to provide sufficient healing to support an infantry force of 15-20 units. Thats a ratio of 1:4, not 1:5+.

If we assume that this is true, why is that a problem? You wouldn't send 16 Marines out with a measly 2 Medics. Having extra transport capacity encourages things like adding a few Hellions to the mix.

You need to have more than 4 Warp Gates to make any use from the warp-in, otherwise you are only loosing time.

How do you figure? The effective build time for WarpGates is lower than that of Gateways.

The Nydus worms don't have any cooldowns and how I see it, the Network is much much easier to use than the warp-in.

It better be; it's much higher tech. And you don't get a unit production speed boost from it.

[spychi]

It better be; it's much higher tech. And you don't get a unit production speed boost from it.

Well it's bit higher than Warp-in technology, I would say 2.5

How do you figure? The effective build time for WarpGates is lower than that of Gateways.

It takes time to transform your Gateway into a Warp Gate, plus there is this cooldown of unit spawn, when you have like 8 and more Warp Gates than you can easily trash the whole map with units within pylon/warp prism range

The Medivac can effectively heal units and it's cost is reasonable

[Nicol Bolas]

there is this cooldown of unit spawn

The unit spawn time doesn't count. What matters is the time between successive spawns of units, which is solely determined by the WarpGate production time.

The Medivac can effectively heal units and it's cost is reasonable

100 Gas for a transport is reasonable? Nonsense. Warp Prisms are far more powerful and useful than Medivacs. They both do something for 4 units, but all of the Terran units (infantry) are Tier 1. No amount of healing will protect you from Psi Storms or Dark Templar. Even the Ghost can only be said to be equal to Protoss Tier 3 Gateway units, at best (and that's due to one-shot snipe + cloak).

The utility of the second function of Warp Prisms is far greater than that of Medivacs. It will be used in almost every Protoss, whereas Medivacs will not always be seen in Terran matches.

The simple fact that the only transport mechanism for the Terrans requires more gas than the special transport for the Protoss is enough to make it imbalanced. Indeed, the fact that this thread even exists, that people who've played the game question the effectiveness of the Medivac (yet there's no similar thread about the Prism) shows an imbalance.

[Aldrius]

100 Gas for a transport is reasonable? Nonsense.

That's what the non-healing dropship had in the original StarCraft. 100/100.

Indeed, the fact that this thread even exists, that people who've played the game question the effectiveness of the Medivac (yet there's no similar thread about the Prism) shows an imbalance.

The Warp Prism is just the Shuttle except it's better. The Med-evac is the dropship except it's better, but it's ALSO the medic, except it's tier 3 and it's really big. The source of the complaints is that it's worse on some level than something you can compare it to from SC1.

[Nicol Bolas]

That's what the non-healing dropship had in the original StarCraft. 100/100.

Yes, which is why you don't see nearly as much Dropship play as you should. For a scant 50 more minerals, that could have been a Siege Tank. This is not a good tradeoff.

Again, the Protoss and the Zerg have multiple mobility mechanism. The Terrans only get one. Medivacs should be cheap and spammable.

[Norfindel]

I think that the Dropship should be able to be upgraded (per-unit) to Medevac, and that's when the problems end. If you don't need the healing, you don't pay for it.