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Thread: Revamping the Dark Pylon

  1. #31

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur View Post
    Like?


    The one I can think of is the siege-tank which loses mobility for fire power.

    Any ability that can be dodged, prevented by the killing (or otherwise incapacitating) of the channeling unit, can hurt your own units (and et caetera) already has "drawbacks" (notice the quotation marks, they don't necessarily have to be drawbacks per se, it's just that the effectiveness of an ability should depend on more than a player's pressing of a corresponding button).

  2. #32

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Eligor View Post
    Any ability that can be dodged, prevented by the killing (or otherwise incapacitating) of the channeling unit, can hurt your own units (and et caetera) already has "drawbacks" (notice the quotation marks, they don't necessarily have to be drawbacks per se, it's just that the effectiveness of an ability should depend on more than a player's pressing of a corresponding button).
    See but those are minor drawbacks. I could make the arguement that having to pay 50 extra minerals for a DP is a "drawback". What your proposing as far as taking away pylon power or supply are major drawbacks.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur View Post
    See but those are minor drawbacks. I could make the arguement that having to pay 50 extra minerals for a DP is a "drawback". What your proposing as far as taking away pylon power or supply are major drawbacks.
    Major drawbacks for the VERY major benefit of faster resource acquirement. And I didn't suggest that, I suggested either the decommission of all Photon Cannons or perhaps the halting of all production (the latter is indeed rather extreme, perhaps what it can do instead is prevent the Warp In mechanic from working).

    P.S.: Also I wouldn't call the "drawbacks" of most abilities such as Psi-Storm minor. You can screw up in a pretty major way by accidentally casting it on your own units.

    P.P.S. Another important point is that the severity of the drawbacks suggested by me is very situational, it brings in an element of timing into the use of macro mechanics.
    Last edited by Eligor; 05-14-2009 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    This whole "drawbacks" conversation is misguided. Should macro mechanics involve choices, hard decisions? Yes! So should abilities. Blizzard doesn't do that by tacking on bad effects to each ability - they do it by adding competing abilities. Templar now have a damn healing spell. So the drawback to Psi Storm is you're not using that energy to cast Plasma Surge or whatever it's called.

    Similarly, the drawback of any macro ability on the DP should be not getting to use the other abilities it has, not some negative "drawback."
    The Spider Brigade has disabled your radio gauge

  5. #35

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    This whole "drawbacks" conversation is misguided. Should macro mechanics involve choices, hard decisions? Yes! So should abilities. Blizzard doesn't do that by tacking on bad effects to each ability - they do it by adding competing abilities. Templar now have a damn healing spell. So the drawback to Psi Storm is you're not using that energy to cast Plasma Surge or whatever it's called.

    Similarly, the drawback of any macro ability on the DP should be not getting to use the other abilities it has, not some negative "drawback."

    Completly agree. Dont add something bad onto the mechanic. Add something fun to compete.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    This whole "drawbacks" conversation is misguided. Should macro mechanics involve choices, hard decisions? Yes! So should abilities. Blizzard doesn't do that by tacking on bad effects to each ability - they do it by adding competing abilities. Templar now have a damn healing spell. So the drawback to Psi Storm is you're not using that energy to cast Plasma Surge or whatever it's called.

    Similarly, the drawback of any macro ability on the DP should be not getting to use the other abilities it has, not some negative "drawback."
    Yes, but in the case of Proton Charge (or any resource acquirement enhancing mechanic for that matter) there is not much you can offer by way of competition (considering the overall benefits of better economy would make most other effects trivial by comparison), I'm not necessarily saying there is no possible competition, but such an ability doesn't easily present itself to my mind (it will definitely have to be a very creative solution indeed, to be able to compete with Proton Charge the way it is right now). There are abilities and mechanics so powerful they must have a negative effect as well to be balanced (such as for example the Dark Archon's Mind Control in Brood War, not only is it a rather expensive ability energy-wise, but the Dark Archon loses all its shields upon using it, the Phoenix's helpless state after using Overload is another example).

  7. #37

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Eligor View Post
    Yes, but in the case of Proton Charge (or any resource acquirement enhancing mechanic for that matter) there is not much you can offer by way of competition (considering the overall benefits of better economy would make most other effects trivial by comparison), I'm not necessarily saying there is no possible competition, but such an ability doesn't easily present itself to my mind

    Dont worry Im on it :P


    Seriously though lets give these abilities a chance before deciding to nerfy them. We can think of other cool things to compete with extra minerals (like say extra gas!).

  8. #38

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur View Post
    Seriously though lets give these abilities a chance before deciding to nerfy them. We can think of other cool things to compete with extra minerals (like say extra gas!).
    How is extra gas any cooler than extra minerals? It's just the same boring mechanic slapped onto another resource.

    A better solution would be to find a more interesting way of increasing the mining as opposed to a cooldown based ability. Even the MULE mechanic allows for more possibilities by creating units. You can use MULEs to draw enemy fire or send on quick scouting runs, and your opponent can just sneak behind them with raiders and kill them. The Zerg mechanic increases the possibilities of all production, allowing you to make more units which could become workers to boost your economy. Proton charge right now truly is just an APM sink, since the other abilities have no use in a mining field.

    Perhaps they could boost production speed of the buildings around them? Or perhaps siphon minerals from a mineral field to regain energy? The options are virtually limitless, so why settle for something as dull as going back to the base every 2 minutes for a task people would rather automate?

  9. #39

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalV3 View Post
    How is extra gas any cooler than extra minerals? It's just the same boring mechanic slapped onto another resource.
    Extra gas is not a mechanic. Extra gas is the result of a mechanic. By virtue of itself it cannot be boring. But hey look someones going to argue with this.



    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalV3 View Post
    A better solution would be to find a more interesting way of increasing the mining as opposed to a cooldown based ability.

    I like where your heads at. Ideas people?

  10. #40

    Default Re: Revamping the Dark Pylon

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur View Post
    Dont worry Im on it :P


    Seriously though lets give these abilities a chance before deciding to nerfy them. We can think of other cool things to compete with extra minerals (like say extra gas!).
    Actually, this is something I thought about too. Proton Charge upsetting the balance between Mineral and Gas acquisition. Temporarily leading to a great influx of gas and a dearth of minerals. Not sure how much merit is there to this mechanic, but it's definitely better than what (as far as we know) Blizzard has now.

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