Patch 1.3.3 is now live!

[almostfamous]

Disclaimer: Mods, if you feel that this discussion should be in the 1.3.3 PTR thread, feel free to delete this thread.



StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty – Patch 1.3.3

General

The default hotkey to toggle in-game music on/off has been reverted to its hotkey prior to Patch 1.3.0. The hotkey to display APM in the observer stat panel has been changed as a result.
Balance

PROTOSS


Archon
Now a Massive unit.
Range increased from 2 to 3.
Cybernetics Core
Research Warp Gate research time increased from 140 to 160.
Gateway
Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.

TERRAN


Bunker
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.
Thor
Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).

ZERG


Infestor
Speed decreased from 2.5 to 2.25.
Spore Crawler
Root time decreased from 12 to 6.

Bug Fixes


Fixed an issue where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.
Fixed an issue that allowed players to stack air units when issuing a queued stop command before the units reached the end of their patrol point.
Fixed an issue where unplugging your USB headset while another player was talking to you could cause a crash.
Fixed an issue where the APM statistic could be artificially increased.
Fixed an issue where 3D unit portraits were not animating smoothly at slow game speeds.
Fixed an issue where, when viewing a replay, no text message was displayed when a player left a game.
The Taiwanese hotkey to display/hide the game UI while in Observer mode now works correctly.

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Dunno 'bout you guys, but I'm pretty stoked about these changes, especially the protoss buffs.

[Twilice]

Where is it

[TheEconomist]

I think I heard it was only for SEA for now.

[almostfamous]

Well hot damn, I guess I jumped the gun on that one...

[TheEconomist]

I think it would be nice if they could make faster build times for Gateways work. It would reward a Protoss player with good macro control instead of just spamming Warp Gates.

[JackhammerIV]

I think it would be nice if they could make faster build times for Gateways work. It would reward a Protoss player with good macro control instead of just spamming Warp Gates.

Well tychus............how many units can you queue on a barracks/factory/starport???? Warp gates are harder to macro than standard terran production facilities. Warp gates are partway between the zerg and terran macro styles.

Zerg has to check their hatcheries regularly to use up the larvae that pop off and to do injects that have sudden surges. Zerg has some freedome to miss making some units since the larvae will be there. Sometimes stockpiling larvae can be on purpose. Terran has to constantly make things. Just keep checking everything to make sure it is building.

With Warp Gates you have to check it at specific times. If you miss a production cycle then those units are gone. You're down by a whole production cycle. The only way to get it back is to chrono every single warp gate 3 times each and not miss any warpins to get back to what your unit count should be. And you have to "look" to use warp gates. You have to be looking at pylon power and warping units in. You can't tap, queue units as you do something else.

A protoss with good macro control already has more units, probes and faster tech than a protoss with bad macro control. Just right now Protosses don't really realise how not using chronoboost energy fully hurts them.

[TheEconomist]

Oh, Jackhammer .... Again?

I never queue units. Ever. Unless it's Marines from several reactors or I check in on a building and a unit is close to completion. In fact, not only do I not queue up units, I can spam the chat with conversation while I do it. I have a breeze with Warp Gates and larvae injections. So I would have to disagree with you that Warp Gates are harder to macro. In fact, I always have much more problems with Terran production than Protoss. Needing to use queue a lot is a sign of lower skill so, while we're talking about that, why not just consider the fact that a Protoss player could just make more Warp Gates to compensate. Sure, that's a waste of minerals in higher levels but obviously that's not what we're talkng about here. For example, in team games, where I basically put my brain asleep, for the early game, I just mass up Warp Gates, as long as I have supply, I can basically make a complete army in no time.

But, you missed the point. What I'm saying is that's a no-brainer to go for warp gates once you get the upgrade. It would be nice to add an extra decision and a reward for the extra effort. An eSport strategy game like StarCraft can always use another cost/benefit decision to make as long as its within the direction of the game. Somehow I think that, because you're a Protoss player, you got offended that I was saying that Protoss takes less skill or something.

Obviously, macro mechanics wise, the three races are equal. I'm just saying it would be nice if that could find someway to make it work.

[JackhammerIV]

Oh, Jackhammer .... Again?

I never queue units. Ever. Unless it's Marines from several reactors or I check in on a building and a unit is close to completion. In fact, not only do I not queue up units, I can spam the chat with conversation while I do it. I have a breeze with Warp Gates and larvae injections. So I would have to disagree with you that Warp Gates are harder to macro. In fact, I always have much more problems with Terran production than Protoss. Needing to use queue a lot is a sign of lower skill so, while we're talking about that, why not just consider the fact that a Protoss player could just make more Warp Gates to compensate. Sure, that's a waste of minerals in higher levels but obviously that's not what we're talkng about here. For example, in team games, where I basically put my brain asleep, for the early game, I just mass up Warp Gates, as long as I have supply, I can basically make a complete army in no time.

But, you missed the point. What I'm saying is that's a no-brainer to go for warp gates once you get the upgrade. It would be nice to add an extra decision and a reward for the extra effort. An eSport strategy game like StarCraft can always use another cost/benefit decision to make as long as its within the direction of the game. Somehow I think that, because you're a Protoss player, you got offended that I was saying that Protoss takes less skill or something.

Obviously, macro mechanics wise, the three races are equal. I'm just saying it would be nice if that could find someway to make it work.

The races are not that equal macro mechanics wise. They all reward you equally for having good macro mechanics. But each race has their own system. I think there was a TL thread somewhere that basically said APM wise Terran needs to use the most for macro. Probably due to the popularity of making bio which are large amounts of lower tier units. Zerg can benefit from holding down one key to spam a lot of units instantly. And protoss have long buildtime high supply cost units.

And you can make a complete army in no time off a lot of warp gates but that is the same as the other races. If your macro slips add more hatches/barracks/etc. It might seem like a sudden surge of units instantly for protoss but it's more a way to catch up to how many units you should have at that point in time.

Obviously queueing up units is a sign of low skill. But macro wise it helps to be able to queue. Like imagine a marine about to pop in 5 secs. You know it is about to pop. The timing is inbuilt into you. You can queue up another unit behind it to maximise the usage of that building. Blizzard even helps you out by queueing up units automatically at the building that will finish all its units first. Having that is helpful. If you're early by a few secs then that's fine. But with protoss warpgates and zerg larvae injects checking it early has no benefit. Additionally imagine you are about to enter a big battle where you anticipate having to micro a lot. You can use queueing beforehand to ensure a more constant stream of reinforcements. Obviously dependant on your resources but it provides a situation where the "noobish" thing to do can be beneficial.

The whole "introduce a tradeoff" for warpgates just adds on more complexity. Like there are still people down in bronze who popularly get posted about who "have done the math and worked out that warp gate is not worth it".

[TheEconomist]

If your macro slips add more hatches/barracks/etc.

You still have to wait for those to be built. Warp gates are instant. Warp Gates require very little baby sitting.

The races are not that equal macro mechanics wise.

Equal in their own way. Yes, Zerg can obviously make many more units but they're weak, etc. It balances out in the end.

But with protoss warpgates and zerg larvae injects checking it early has no benefit

The thing is though if all of your warp gates are constantly on cool-down then you're doing something wrong. During the mid-late game, I only have 2-3 Warp Gates that are on the same cool down because I constantly come back to them and make my units in 2-3's. If you have five warp gates and you're constantly making units at the same time then yes you would need to come back more often. And, by come back, I mean press W For me, though, in the late game, when I got minerals pouring in, I'm pretty much constantly spamming Warp Gates every five seconds so there's no need to think about building times. There's pretty much always a Warp Gate ready.

Anyways, it's all semantics. I don't think we're really even disagreeing on anything except play style. And, with my play style, I find Terrans to be much harder to keep up with in production than Protoss.

-- In case anyone didn't already know, the patch is up for NA.

[Wankey]

The warp gate nerf is fun, pwning protosses left right and center because of the extra 20 seconds I have to build shit and the fact that every protoss never used to build anything until warp gate tech comes in.