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Thread: Rankings and Spankings

  1. #71

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    Quote Originally Posted by flak4321 View Post
    General update: I'm progressing well with control groups, scouting and baneling usage. My brief spiral went to 12 losses in 14 games, but 5 of those losses at least were winnable in soem way or other. Then came Saturday afternoon. I started with 5 straight wins and went on to post 14 wins and 6 losses on the day.

    My biggest problem was Terrans and their bloody Thors. 3 of my losses were right here. I just can't seem to beat them or prevent them from coming, even if I limit to 2 bases (natural always had a PF). Splash damage hell it was. So the question is, on any occasion where you fail in preventing Thors and your opponent gets at least 7, what would be some ways to deal with this? I tried a ling/baneling approach, but could not get close enough, as the infantry/scv horde was just large enough to prevent contact.
    VS Mass thors specifically, my previous advice of ling/blingis actually not great; Banelings are good on light low hp units that cluster up. zergligns are cheap and can help even vs thors, but given even moderate support by helions, the zerglings will die too fast to be effective, and even without helions, lings alone will rarely be enough vs a critical number of thors sicne tehse typically cluster up and limit the available attackign-surface-area of the lings.

    ... In theory, infestors and either ultralisks or broodlords perform fairly well vs Thors, when used right and back by the good economy, however, At your level of play you should keep it more simple; Roaches are the staple unit vs Thors. and attack upgrades help them a good bit. (but if hes nt goign mainly Thors or using too much helions, zergling attack upgrades are generally better) .... if you focus on roaches and mine much gas out of habit, you might eventually have your gas pile up, and if you are not comfortable using infestors and are still up against mainly Thors, use broodlords and only switch to ultralisks if he gets significan numbers of vikings to deal with the BL... but this is very hypothetical. focus on roahces!)

    A Thor army moves rather slowly and replenishes even slower.. in seeing a terran who turtles up with a PF at his first expansion and uses much mech like thors, i would want you to identify (SCOUT) that asap as to cut some corners in terms of economy; maybe even start saturating a 3rd base while making sure you are getting enough larva and keep those upgrades going at a reasonable rate.


    Tactically, a Thor army that grows big is a hard nut to crack in one blow ...this makes midgame and midmap scouting / map awarnes & readynes to intercept with your army ever-more important; own any watchtowers and have zerglings and even overlords out about the map between you and your opponent, to warn you ahead of time if he is moving out to attack.

    ... When Thors move out, you want to engage with roaches and any supporting units like lings (ideally infestors with Neural parasite but that is probably hard for you to get alongside enough econ and roaches + upgrades and they are not easy to use right) ... Engage as far away from your own bases as possible! .... Ths is calculating with losing a big chunk of roaches and maybe not even "winning the battle"; so long as you acutally kill a ew Thors, its still ok to do that for a few reasons:

    1 You should be making more money than he is
    2) Thors cost more time and money to rebuild than your roaches do
    3) any remaining Thors (/rest of T army) are still not on the doorstep of your core production & economy; you have TIME to make new units and engage again!

    ... Ofcourse, there may be details i cant foresee that re deluiting specific example games, for example, it may well be possible and favourable for you to prevent, assault or circumvent that terran expansion before the number of Thors nears critical.

    to sum this up and relate to earleir lessons, if you have your eyes set on an economy lead with your earlygame zerg play, as you should, you should keep an open mind about what units you end up rellying most heavily on; its fairly cheap to make both roach-warren, research zergling speed and make a baneling nest before the 10 minute mark, and if you fail to gather EARLY information about your opponents composition, you can mix roaches with zerglings and banelings and feel reasonably safe for a while (with the odd spore & extra queen for safety vs banshees) ... at some point however you will want to start massing units to own the map or attack (or defend vs larger timing attacks) and at this point you want at least a rough estimate of the enemy composition so you can react to it intuitively. so SCOUT it! zerligns poking at the front or standing outside the front, 1, 2 or 3 zergligns running in / trying to run by if only to see what units they end up getting killed by, sending an overlord into the main base to see what production facilities are present....... the sooner you know, the better!

    more replays is thx
    Last edited by Todie; 06-20-2011 at 04:38 AM.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  2. #72

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    Lots of good info here. I have had success with roaches and broodlords vs Thors (not at the same time, mind), but the critical mass of Thors is where I run into trouble. If I can't swat it in one blow, I usually lose my main because of two possible factors: my opponent is reinforcing the whole time, and I am reinforcing piecemeal until the main fracas dies down, during which time he's pushing toward my mian even though I engaged at his natural or 3rd.

    I'll review my replays and get something for you.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

  3. #73

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    I really should start saving these replays that generate questions... lol. I've played enough games since my ZvT loss vs Thors that the replay is gone. Either that or my lag issue prevented it from saving in the first place... Anywho, I have triuble vs mass Thors regardless of what race I am, but more as a Zerg than the other 2 by far.

    Some control group usage updates: I have been successful intermittently with putting all my hatches on 1 group and my evos on another. looking now to take my first shot with a spire in an upgrade group. I've also been splitting my troups into groups (usually air and ground) and have found that this makes multipronged strikes a little easier as I can use the minimap to make a-move commands w/o having to look at the group. I'm also going to start experimenting with my queens in a group.

    I finally figured out how to show the hotkey text on screen, so that experiment is also underway.
    Last edited by flak4321; 06-21-2011 at 10:39 AM.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

  4. #74

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    sounds like youre ahead of even me onhotkeys; im jstu recently triyng to start hotkeying non-hachery buildings, but its quite hard to brake old habits...
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  5. #75

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Todie View Post
    sounds like youre ahead of even me onhotkeys; im jstu recently triyng to start hotkeying non-hachery buildings, but its quite hard to brake old habits...
    A friendly BW opponent (who beat me but good) once said to me: "Old habits die hard. Protoss die harder." We could use this with any race in there in many situations.

    I'm not going to be posting as often as I have started a new job (2nd time this year :P) and am adjusting to long work hours.

    I have attached a game replay I thought was a nice comeback, but I really think i could have won this earlier. Once again, scouting was an issue, but not the only one. I would like commentary on my natural timing in particular, and advice on when taking a third would be a good idea in general and under the given circumstances.

    Replay notes: 1 hour and 8 game minutes, I think. Scrap station. ZvT.

    There was some after game chatter with this one. Opponent asked me why I didn't just GG when I knew I was beat. I responded by saying, "Ifyou felt I was beat, why didn't you finish the job?" There was some jawing afterwards that need not be repeated, but I felt I made my point.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

  6. #76

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    no replay attached.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  7. #77

    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Todie View Post
    no replay attached.
    Ooops! Here it is.
    I am a master tactician. It is my execution that keeps getting me killed.

  8. #78
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Rankings and Spankings

    I have some advice that may or may not be relevant:

    Build more bases.
    Take the map bro.
    Use control groups!
    Learn to macro.
    Don't throw tantrums...just get practice
    And remember...speshul taktics!

    Do these things and before long you will be strong just like jaedong. x)

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