Ideas for base defenses

[electricmole]

I completely like this. I still can't believe that in 12 years, we are STILL using proton cannon as protoss base defense. We're STILL using bunkers. We're STILL using sunken colonies.

Come on...

i agree.

2 years ago i made thread talking about base defenses in sc2 being completely identical to sc1. canon for the toss, turret and bunker, and sunkens for zerg (even if they walk theres still nothing much to it).

I also mention the value and importance of base defenses that it should be given some innovation and make it a big part on pro games as well.

the responses are the same apparently, dont fix which isn't broken. they say base defense should just be a "minor" support for base defenses and you should need troops all over you base all the time. my reply, damn fanboys. haha.

well i say change the mechanics of base defenses as well and give it a strategic value as well. SC2 lacks innovation on how base defenses are played.


Here are some of my ideas.

1.) An aerial base defense (ATG), which is available mid to late game for balance reason. (originally for my UED concept race). Think about it, static floating protoss canon, now jackal, reapers, etc...can't do shit. Viking and Corruptor will be ideal against it. A lot of different strategy and unit raid decision is needed. The building can be mass but easily be countered by ATA units.


2.) AOE base defenses (lorewise base defenses should deal mass damage obviously). This should be a late game building as it is very powerful. I think the zerg needs this one. Major reason why you need battlecruisers, carrier, and mothership. Its about time the big guns makes a constant appearance in pro games. AOE defenses>smaller units. bigger units>AOE defenses. Combination of normal and AOE defenses = all units possible not just mass stalkers etc!

Zerg creep colony level upgrade fits well for this as zerg buildings can evolve. Upgrade the spores by the time you get hive and it will become a huge defensive building that shoots gigantic green balls (like the bugs in starship troopeers) which deal AOE damage. HP of this building is not greatly improve for balance and so that it will still be vulnerable to large units like thors and bcs and mass small units will still be able to handle it 50% of the time. It will not be able to walk. Also it cost supply you need 2 drones and morph them to the targeted sunken or spore hence not massable.


3.) Hardened shield toss canon, siege tank ultralisk battlecruiser will do minor damage. you will actually need small units like marines and zerglings to easily destroy this type of canon. for balance reason make it 1 per pylon field. SO the strategy is to build this in the middle of multiple normal pylons so that marine will have a hard time to attack it. yamato would still blow it in one shot though. ^^

4.) Super base defense. The terran need this. You can only build one. The Ion canon the ultimate terran base defense. You get it after building the fusion core. It has an attack radius and can only be build next to a command center. Will not overlap bunker siege tanks turrets etc. Deal massive damage in a linear pattern killing small units instantly and dealing damage over time. Requires 5 supply depots, after firing 5 supply depots will malfunction and wil be out of service. SO mass those depots well if you can. Good counter is to destroy nearby supply depots so that it will not be activated.


5.) Pylon detonation. All pylons near the nexus explodes and deals damage to surrounding units. Activate it in the nexus. Pros- it will kill your enemies. COns - you require addition pylons.

I like the idea of making new types and mechanics for base defenses it gives a lot of firepower feel.

This idea are never meant to turtle completely as there are counters for it. The idea is to make most type of units useful and add more complex strategy and decision in how you raid or you want to setup base defenses. If you dont know how to counter this base defense or make the perfect base defenses then your done.

[ArcherofAiur]

5.) Pylon detonation. All pylons near the nexus explodes and deals damage to surrounding units. Activate it in the nexus. Pros- it will kill your enemies. And allows you to steal the Matriarch. COns - you require addition pylons.

Fixed

[MattII]

There's already been a thread discussing this sort of thing.

One of the defences I proposed was an Ibiks Turret (the PF has two):
Cost: 100/100 min/gas
Time: 30
Hp: 200
Damage: 20 (splash) GtG
Range: 6

[Pandonetho]

Seriously, what's the point in activating/deactivating the sensor tower? There is none!

There is no "giving away positions."
Your position is already given away barely 2 minutes into the game when the opponent scouts you with an overlord or worker.

As for expansions, it's a risk you have to take.

[Blazur]

Seriously, what's the point in activating/deactivating the sensor tower? There is none!

Unless they changed the mechanics of this building, the sensor tower would drop a range display (similar to what the tank has) onto the map revealing its position to the enemy. So if you were to build one on the perimeter of an enemies base they'll see a line popup the moment it's built.

From the SC2 website:

The downside to all this multi-spectrum output is that foes can easily detect the presence of a sensor tower and use it to identify the whereabouts of a terran base. Other

Furthermore, I've heard reports that a sensor tower built in proximity to a turret is needed to give detection to them.

Giving control over this could let Terran players hide the range indicator. Unless of course this has all changed in which case this is a moot point. Haven't really heard/seen much of the sensor tower lately.

[Josue]

But looking at it from another angle, couldn't we say that now the Protoss are the odd man out? Zerg defenses can get up and walk away. Terran defenses can be deconstructed for a full refund and set up shop elsewhere. Now Protoss are the only ones who can't move theirs.

If Terran and Zerg overlap in this area is fine, is it really so wrong for Protoss to get it, as well?

I'm inclined to agree, and I always have. I don't see why all three races can't have mobility in their defenses.

As do I. I'm glad to hear that this time "overlapping" doesn't constrain our imagination neither the infinite combinations of mechanics.
I think we agree this can be common to the three races with just certain variants:

1. -Zerg defenses can get up and walk
2. -Terran defenses can be deconsturcted for full refund and re built somewhere else
3. -Protoss Photon cannons can upgrade to Phase cannons for a certain cost. Once upgraded they can freely warp out to any point within the psi matrix. Warping uses a similar animation to being warped by a probe but takes less time (let's say just 7 seconds) and the ability has a cooldown so it can't be used again until it recharges another 14 seconds.

[Nicol Bolas]

Lots of necromancy today.

Anyway, this is the kind of thing that would best be done in an expansion. After having a 6 month beta and a year or so of playing the live game, then you can see whether it is necessary for the Protoss to get defense movement. Don't forget: the Protoss have the only base defense that can attack both air and ground (without needing troops, of course).

[Raisk]

I'm not a fan of giving Cannons a warp-in mechanic. The ability to transport your defences anywhere on a whim sounds scary good. I mean you could teleport a cannon all the way to the other side of the map, right into a fight, and then teleport back over afterwards.

Of course if you gave it a sort of "down time" after being warped it could be alright. The down time could even be related to how far you're teleporting said cannon, so all the way across the map would cost say a minute of inactivity and for shorter distances it would be less.

[Josue]

I'm not a fan of giving Cannons a warp-in mechanic. The ability to transport your defences anywhere on a whim sounds scary good. I mean you could teleport a cannon all the way to the other side of the map, right into a fight, and then teleport back over afterwards.

Of course if you gave it a sort of "down time" after being warped it could be alright. The down time could even be related to how far you're teleporting said cannon, so all the way across the map would cost say a minute of inactivity and for shorter distances it would be less.

Did you read my post?

As do I. I'm glad to hear that this time "overlapping" doesn't constrain our imagination neither the infinite combinations of mechanics.
I think we agree this can be common to the three races with just certain variants:

1. -Zerg defenses can get up and walk
2. -Terran defenses can be deconsturcted for full refund and re built somewhere else
3. -Protoss Photon cannons can upgrade to Phase cannons for a certain cost. Once upgraded they can freely warp out to any point within the psi matrix. Warping uses a similar animation to being warped by a probe but takes less time (let's say just 7 seconds) and the ability has a cooldown so it can't be used again until it recharges another 14 seconds.

Well? I gave it a cooldown. let's make it more interesting. change those times: warping out a phase cannon to warp it into another location costs 1/3 of the time of a photon cannon being normally warped/built by a probe. cooldown to re use the ability by the phase cannon is 2/3 of that time. The total time you will spend to move it and get it back will be more than warp/build by a probe just by 1/3 of the normal production time. Besides of that, the phase cannon will be vulnerable at two points in the map: the point from which it's warping out and the point in which it's warping in for 1/3 of the time of it's normal production time.

[Krikkitone]

Actually, A good idea for "Phase Cannons" might be that they have 0 shields when warped in.... (especially if the Protoss delayed shield mechanic is restored)