The Civil War: A Conspiracy of Amnesia

[Sarov]

I knew this was going to happen. Both on the account of the argument and the account of Tychus bragging at some point.

[TheEconomist]

Oh, a statement of fact is bragging now? For future reference, how exactly does one cater to such sensitivities and still argue a factual point? I don't think there is a way. Insecure people will always be insecure, as far as I can tell. I had to bring these things up because it's the only way to get through to some of the people on this forum. If I wanted to brag, I wouldn't have held my tongue so many times before. Oh, and I probably wouldn't have deleted the most "bragging" part of my post. I would've left it there for all to admire my glory.


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[Sarov]

Oh, a statement of fact is bragging now? For future reference, how exactly does one cater to such sensitivities and still argue a factual point? I don't think there is a way. Insecure people will always be insecure, as far as I can tell. I had to bring these things up because it's the only way to get through to some of the people on this forum. If I wanted to brag, I wouldn't have held my tongue so many times before. Oh, and I probably wouldn't have deleted the most "bragging" part of my post. I would've left it there for all to admire my glory.


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Well, it does seem that you are usually bringing up something about your past and sometimes it makes me roll my eyes. If I were to bring up something about my past - which I rarely do - in response to a relevant subject, people would either a) assume I'm doing it for pity (if I really wanted that I'd go to a therapist) or b) do the whole "Meh, who cares about you" argument. I can't help but roll my eyes these days at serious discussions now-a-days. It seems like bragging to me, that is all.

Also, you're not the only one who jokes in some form around here. Despite the fact that people think that I either, a) have no emotions and am a robot or b) that I'm serious all the time, I do joke. That is when I bother to post.

[TheEconomist]

I bring it up as an argument. I don't like talking about myself either. I can hear the sound of crickets whenever it's brought up and I come close to rolling my eyes at myself. Good thing the point isn't to actually tell about my life but to demonstrate a point with it. Socialists will always interpret statistics in their own way so I have to move away from that into personal experiences. When I start talking about myself out of nowhere, then you can say I'm bragging. As for 'rolling of eyes', it's a normal response. No one really cares about anyone's life through impersonal communication such as the internet. I know I don't so I find no fault in that. When I hear about people whining on YouTube, it makes me sad AND roll my eyes. And, like you said, people tend to assume the worst, that's why I've never posted that before. I only did it to prove a point that I did not believe I could do otherwise.

Either way, this has taken far too much time. I'm done. Good day all.

Also, you're not the only one who jokes in some form around here.

What? Is that referring to my signature? I wasn't joking in this topic, IIRC. It's just that most people tend to take my posts too seriously because this isn't a forum that is usually humor-oriented. Therefore, people miss much of the jokes. I find typical debate about trivial subjects to be boring, so I liven it up with some fun. But, again, not in this topic.

[Lupino]

I knew I'd regret conversing with you. You're an absolute chore to readon with. Your reading comprehension and thought process just isn't up to par with what I'd expect in order to have a debate go smoothly. Afterall, you're that same person that just will not admit he's wrong no matter what. All one need to do to prove that is to look at that topic where you tried to backtrack out of an argument you lost by saying you switched who were you talking to mid post without noting such a change

You're still bitching about that? I assume you would've figured it out by now I was never talking to you, but whatever.

1) This isn't the 30's and 40's and Nazism is far from the problem it used to be today. You are proving my point. Just because some years ago a culture was based around something, doesn't mean it is today. To use your example, Germany is no longer Nazi controlled. Proves my point. Likewise, the south is no longer based around slavery and, therefore, the flag has evolved to mean something completely different. Something that even black people can be proud of.

I see the point went right over your head yet again. German culture in the '30s and '40s was very much a product of the dominance of Nazism and the Nazi Party. Southern Antebellum culture was very much a product of slavery and the fruits (literally in some cases) of black slave labor. The difference is that the Germans actually went through the process of realizing "wow, we were pretty shitty back then, sorry" and don't pine for the good ol' days of shoveling Goldstein into the fires. Meanwhile Southerners wax poetic about the "lost cause" and turn a blind eye to all the injustice perpetrated.

2) Roland made the argument that the flag should be banned because it offended people enough for this to be justified. I argued with it didn't. You brought in some irrelevant statistics saying that black people are offended by the flag. I never made the point that black weren't offended by the flag, only that banning the flag was not the correct path to take because not that many people were that disgustingly sensitive.

Who's going to be offended by it? Black people? Apparently not. Just oversensitive white people who feel unnecessarily guilty.

Clearly "oversensitive white people" aren't the only ones who are offended by the Confederate flag, and aren't the only ones who would want to ban it either. Obviously banning won't solve the problem, it'll probably take generations more for Southerners to finally be weened off this love affair with a shameful past.

3) Lolbertarian? I assume you mean libertarian. What's the matter? Can't argue my points so resort to ad hominem and old, unoriginal jokes? LOL! Well, if you knew anything about politics, you would know that libertarians are, well ... liberal. And, as any monkey can see from my post, in this instance, I am extremely conservative.

Complaining you're a difference branch on the same tree doesn't make you that different. Thus far you're doing a good enough job destroying your own arguments, the color commentary is just to add some fun to an otherwise dull rehash of talking points.

4) Like I said, it is an all too rare occurrence. But, it's not that fault of the system; it's mostly the fault of the people.

Yes, clearly it's all the people's fault, the system itself is perfect, because Tychus said so. That's sarcasm btw, in case you've gotten confused again about what I'm talking about. Let's ignore problems within the education system of poor neighborhoods, like under-payed teachers, overfilled classrooms, inadequate learning material, and other factors that put poor children at a disadvantage. Hell let's go beyond just education and ignore every other socio-economic factor that results in poverty like unsafe neighborhoods, institutional discrimination, lack of social services, etc. As long as we throw a few grand at them for school and they don't succeed, hell, there must be something wrong with them. I guess half of black students are just naturally lazy or dumb?

If I were you, I might want to consider editing out your racist bullshit if you don't want people to think you're an idiot.

5) If you had read my post, you would know that I was not against certain forms of financial aid. I won't clarify my post because either you didn't read it or you lack the mental tools to comprehend it so a recap wouldn't help you there either. But, even without financial aid, it is more than possible to succeed. Hence, the example of my brother who was a junior in high school when he dropped out, yet, through drive, intelligence, and confidence, he made himself a success.

Which, given what you've said thus far about education, and that everyone who's still poor is just lazy, makes your support of "certain" financial aid just read off as "I've got mine, screw you guys."

6) Didn't hijack the thread. Just commented on your post. That is how discussion works and its still somewhat relevant to the topic. You're free to get back on topic any time you'd like.

A thread about the civil war dovetailing into your unconnected life story is the very definition of a hijack.

[TheEconomist]

Meanwhile Southerners wax poetic about the "lost cause" and turn a blind eye to all the injustice perpetrated.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Those who feel this way are a minority. And, I doubt many of them have turned a blind eye. They just don't see it as wrong, which is COMPLETELY different. Most Southerners are proud to be Southern for different reasons.

Complaining you're a difference branch on the same tree doesn't make you that different.

Do you know anything about what a liberal or a conservative is? Beyond that, do you not know that it is liberals that are passing 99% of these laws you want? Ignoring the fact that you're probably right with them in opinions, why mock them when they're doing what you want done?

Or, if you mean to say that conservatives and liberals are basically the same thing then, well, I guess you're a lolbertarian as well. Hypocrite much?

Clearly "oversensitive white people" aren't the only ones who are offended by the Confederate flag, and aren't the only ones who would want to ban it either.

*sigh* Please, please, please read. I never said white people were the only ones offended by the confederate flag, however, in the overall scheme, they are ones that take political correctness to an outrageous level and want something banned. Most white people feel unnecessarily guilty, as if they were the ones that did these things, so they compensate in the wrong areas.

Yes, clearly it's all the people's fault, the system itself is perfect,

Exactly!

Because "mostly" means all.

. . .

See what I mean about your reading comprehension failure? It makes things soooo much damn harder than they need to be. There's also that small little detail of my last few walls of text being about HOW THE SYSTEM IS NOT PERFECT. I completely understand why you would think I believed it was perfect, however. It's easier to assume the person you're arguing with is an idiot instead of someone quite knowledeable, especially when you hide behinds statitics and head-in-sand tacitcs.

I guess half of black students are just naturally lazy or dumb?

Not necessarily lazy (although that is very often the case), just lacked the discipline to deny themselves certain things for the sake of academics.

If I did it, they can do it. Simple truth. You can't deny this. I received less than them and did more with it. Que life story.

I might want to consider editing out your racist bullshit if you don't want people to think you're an idiot.

What exactly was it that I said that was racist? I'm far from racist. I'm anti-racism. I've been very anti-racism in other topics as well. You're black, aren't you? I should've known. You remind me of those people that assume some is a racist if they say that they think rap music is bad for America or disagree with Obama. Think those black people talking loud in the theater are rude? You're a racist. Think that attitude you're getting at a restaurant is an indication of bad service, you're a racist. Take notice of the fact that 9x the white prison population is black (even with Hispanics counting as whites in many systems), you're a racist. Doesn't matter if you know there are many good black people or give everyone a chance before you judge, the truth hurts so you're a racist.

So fuckin sad.

Racism is prejudice. Which means you judge someone before you get to know them based on their skin. I have not done that. All I have done is mention an undeniable fact (just read statistics or watch the news) as well as opinions. There's nothing wrong with that. Just because it's an inconvenient truth, you get offended? Assuming you're black, it's that kind of mental slavery I have a problem with. The culture will never help itself if it doesn't admit there are problems. A drug addict can't get clean unless he admits he has a problem. If certain groups keep blaming the system for something that's not its fault, they will never help themselves.

If only you had seen my anti-racism rants . . . Of course, you'd just deny that too so never mind. Honestly, I should've seen this before. I wouldn't have even responded. You're too scared to look in the mirror so you blame it on others because, hey, at least that way you don't have to improve.

read off as "I've got mine, screw you guys."

I've never received a dime of financial aid. I worked for a year and a half at my brother's shop to get the money that paid for my education, my food, housing, internet, utilities, etc. Everything I'm using right now other than insurance and cell phone is completely paid for by me. The only reason I'm not paying that is because my family knows damn well I wouldn't pay for it if they didn't.

In fact, the whole reason I'm on this forum is because I used to take breaks from inventory and come here since it was just a tab away. Otherwise, I probably would never get into internet foruming.

A thread about the civil war dovetailing into your unconnected life story is the very definition of a hijack.

Why am I not surprised you can't see the connection? Although, to correct you, you said something along the lines of "all ignorance is because of the difficulty of getting into education." To which I responded, nothing more. You don't want to be commented on? Don't post here.

By the way, after the third sentence I was actually talking to Sarov. You're a fool for not knowing.

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Sound familiar?

[Gradius]

Well, it does seem that you are usually bringing up something about your past and sometimes it makes me roll my eyes. If I were to bring up something about my past - which I rarely do - in response to a relevant subject, people would either a) assume I'm doing it for pity (if I really wanted that I'd go to a therapist) or b) do the whole "Meh, who cares about you" argument. I can't help but roll my eyes these days at serious discussions now-a-days. It seems like bragging to me, that is all.

I noticed that you deleted your first post in this thread which was about how it made you angry that people who thought you wanting to improve your life was you "acting white" as well as some of the other racism you've experienced. Nothing wrong with deleting that post, just seems ironic now.

[Sarov]

I noticed that you deleted your first post in this thread which was about how it made you angry that people who thought you wanting to improve your life was you "acting white" as well as some of the other racism you've experienced. Nothing wrong with deleting that post, just seems ironic now.

There are times when I actually feel like discussing something only to later realize that it isn't worth it and was probably pointless to begin with. I've already seen the responses those types of posts get and to be honest, it's kind of irritating. I've tried talking to a few people about these types of subjects before but they usually either a) see it as a demand for pity which it isn't, b) refuse to think that, you know, maybe I'm right about something, c) think that I haven't gone through anything so I wouldn't know, d) think that because I'm young, I must not have ever gone through anything bad (which is far from the truth) and should stop complaining about legitimate things, etc.

I do like to discuss things (debate team, serious discussions after class with professors and all that) but the moment I remember what the internet is like and the general responses (or lack there of)... Well, those are just some of the reasons why I rarely even post anymore.

[TheEconomist]

I have the same problems as you and it annoys me to no end. For what its worth, I'm not as trivial as those people. If there was something you wanted to share, I would listen.

[Jconant]

It isn't feasible to have a discussion on this topic unless you willing to ask yourself "how was slavery NOT* a part of the civil war"? You can call my point "apologist", but it really is realism. The north didn't fight the war for freeing slaves or bringing about inequality. The talk of emancipation wasn't brought up until near the end of the war, and by the president; people as a whole didn't care much about equality.
So how can slavery (which is a horrid thing) be the cause of the war if the subject of freeing slaves didn't become an agenda until much later? (Slavery did instigate the talk of secession though)