Joneagle_X's (SC2F.org Admin) StarCraft 2 BlizzCon 09 Review

[Nicol Bolas]

The HP boost doesn't make sense.

Actually, the HP boost makes perfect sense. The Tier 2 Roach has to deal with larger groups of Marines or Stalkers than the Tier 1 Roach did. The Roach always had a tipping point, when there are just so many enemy units that the Roach gets one-shotted before its regen ever comes to matter.

Increasing the Roach's HP allows its regen to actually matter against large groups of enemies.

[flabortast]

The comment about the Marauder just made my eyes roll....
I don't like Immortal in RFac because it doesn't synergize with RFac units who can all bypass cliffs. I like how you can build some RFac on a cliff like in BR3 and you know the the units coming out won't get stuck and the RFac is in a strategic position.

[RamiZ]

Actually, the HP boost makes perfect sense. The Tier 2 Roach has to deal with larger groups of Marines or Stalkers than the Tier 1 Roach did. The Roach always had a tipping point, when there are just so many enemy units that the Roach gets one-shotted before its regen ever comes to matter.

Increasing the Roach's HP allows its regen to actually matter against large groups of enemies.

It does, but it doesnt make sense to regenerate faster when Burrowed...
Its not WC3, and beside Crypt Fiends didnt even have Regen outside the Blight, so they only had when Burrowed, and in game where everyone got detectors, you sacrifice Roach attack, to get a little higher regen which totally doesnt make sense to me...

[flabortast]

That is why vision/detector denial is more important in SC2. I hear so many people complaining about how burrow/cloak is useless because of easy detection. Why can't players make the effort to deny vision and detection. Personally, this is an aspect of SC2 I look forward to.

[GRUNT]

I find a lot of his analysis quite interesting. I can't say I agree or disagree with them, because I haven't played the game at all, but there are some points he raised which I do feel confused over.

Joneagle_X deducts points from the Raven because it overlaps the Siege Tank, but still gives the Thor an A+ after explicitly stating that it'll knock the Siege Tank 'out of the limelight', and making some direct comparisons between the two units.

Despite talking about how he prefers the old one-of-a-kind Queen, he doesn't really say what makes it better than the current one, other than that you could only build one of it. I don't see the current Queen really leaving the creep, either, and even though you can build as many as you want, they still strike me as behaving more like a building than a unit.

He also says that Hydralisks used to be a Zerg tank in tier 2. I kinda disagree there (and here's where I can, because he's talking about BW, not SC2 :P) - I really don't think that a tier 2 Hydralisk army is tanky at all. In fact, I find Zerg's tier 2 in BW to be generally weak and incapable of taking a Terran (for example) tier 2 army head-on. That's why you try to muta harass or stall with Lurkers, so that you can get to your much-needed Hive tech.

From what it sounds like, this particular style of play hasn't changed that much - it still sounds like as a Zerg player, you still want to get past tier 2 as quickly as possible. I can understand if it's not a particular player's cup of tea, but Joneagle_X makes it sound as if it's a fundamental problem with the game. I think it really depends on what Blizzard wants each race to play like. If Zerg aren't supposed to have such a tough time in the mid-game, then I agree that Blizz should do something to fix it. But take the Portugese in Age of Empires III, for example. All their good stuff comes in the Imperial Age, as opposed to all the early-game, or more aggressive strategies which some of the other civilisations can employ. When playing as the Portugese, I believe that one should enter every game with the mindset of surviving to Imperial, where you can enjoy certain tech and production advantages over your opponent (not that Zerg should have no viable early-mid-game strategies, of course).

Joneagle_X's description of the Brood Lord also strongly implies that he feels that its primary purpose is as a means for the Zerg player to adapt to a tech switch from an opponent. He doesn't talk about how well the unit does what it's designed to do. That said, I too would rather the Brood Lord morph from a Mutalisk instead of a Corruptor.

Finally, I don't feel that there's anything wrong with Terrans being a 'glass cannon' - I think that that's part of what gives the race its unique flavour and playstyle (Joneagle_X doesn't explicitly state that the Terran's status as a 'glass cannon' is a negative one, but that's just the impression I got from the way he phrased it). If you do things like give their units more HP, give them powerful melee units, pretty soon you'll end up with Protoss or something.

This post might sound a little negative, but that's only because I haven't played the game. At the moment, I can only go: "I see" (when reading his opinions about the game if it correlates to what I know of it), or question why Johneagle_X feels the way he does about certain things if it doesn't mesh with my expectations.

[RamiZ]

That is why vision/detector denial is more important in SC2. I hear so many people complaining about how burrow/cloak is useless because of easy detection. Why can't players make the effort to deny vision and detection. Personally, this is an aspect of SC2 I look forward to.

If your post was comment on mine, I didnt mean its useless. But Roach is a tank, and while you burrow one by one, there are less and less tanks, of course you burrow them to regen, so they can tank again later, but until then all of your other units are dead(Hydras, Lings, Banelings etc...) so why should Roaches be now unburrowed to tank? What for?
The only thing I see it is to give Roach some abnormal regen underground, so you can burrow/unburrow really fast.

[Nicol Bolas]

Its not WC3, and beside Crypt Fiends didnt even have Regen outside the Blight, so they only had when Burrowed, and in game where everyone got detectors, you sacrifice Roach attack, to get a little higher regen which totally doesnt make sense to me...

Burrowing takes the Roach out of combat, to save it's life. And "everyone got detectors" is a nice, theoretical assumption. But if my Corruptors and Overseers have swept the skies clean of your detectors, you're SOL.

but until then all of your other units are dead(Hydras, Lings, Banelings etc...) so why should Roaches be now unburrowed to tank? What for?

And if you left the Roach unburrowed to die a split second before you would have burrowed? Are you better off with dead tanks and dead units? If your tanks were close enough to death that you're burrowing them at all, then they've either done their job or the battle is likely lost.

Besides, Roach burrow-micro has always been a part of the unit.

[RamiZ]

Burrowing takes the Roach out of combat, to save it's life. And "everyone got detectors" is a nice, theoretical assumption. But if my Corruptors and Overseers have swept the skies clean of your detectors, you're SOL.

Yeah, except that I will have Scan if im Terran.

And if you left the Roach unburrowed to die a split second before you would have burrowed? Are you better off with dead tanks and dead units? If your tanks were close enough to death that you're burrowing them at all, then they've either done their job or the battle is likely lost.

Besides, Roach burrow-micro has always been a part of the unit.

Except that Burrow-Micro was just to quickly burrow/unburrow Roach so enemy should change target, cuz it had the same regeneration on the ground and underground, so it is much more effective.

[Nicol Bolas]

Yeah, except that I will have Scan if im Terran.

And then I made you burn a scan just to kill a few Roaches. They're not Lurkers or anything, after all.

Except that Burrow-Micro was just to quickly burrow/unburrow Roach so enemy should change target, cuz it had the same regeneration on the ground and underground, so it is much more effective.

Roaches in BR2 had enhanced burrowed regen, and the Zerg player put it to good use there too.

Further, burrow still breaks targeting; Roach regen above ground is still faster than any other Zerg unit, so doing the burrow/unburrow trick is still viable.

[RamiZ]

Roaches in BR2 had enhanced burrowed regen, and the Zerg player put it to good use there too.

Further, burrow still breaks targeting; Roach regen above ground is still faster than any other Zerg unit, so doing the burrow/unburrow trick is still viable.

If they still have pretty good regen on the ground, then im fine with it.