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Thread: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

  1. #21

    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Quote Originally Posted by rise View Post
    The assertion that readers need to "have a sense of humour" or "learn to detect" humour ignore the fact that the initial comment is tactless. Posters are responsible for accurately gaging their rhetorical audience. The number of people who have been adversely impacted by some of posts (at least a reporter, commenter, and moderator) here is concerning because the comments could have easily been phrased with understanding toward human suffering. For example, while a reader may disagree with DS' latest post, it is constructed with more tact than a number of other posts in this thread. It is reasonable to ask that posters avoid using instances of human suffering to prove a point or post witty replies.

    Also, I do detect the humour in both the posts and the posters in this thread. However, I don't find it funny. Call me a victim of dominant, hegemonic taste on this issue, but I disagree vehemently with using human suffering as a comedic prop. You're free to disagree with other poster's opinions, and you're free to have opinions that are unique; however, the onus is on you to question the validity of your own commentary before you post. A poster is responsible for his or her douchebaggery.
    What follows is off topic, but I feel the need to defend myself further.

    A great percentage of comedy uses human suffering as a comedic prop. In fact, I'd say that human suffering, or at least suffering of some kind, is almost required of comedy. Every time Curly got poked in the eyes by Moe, that was human suffering, that's pain, and its funny. Same with a pie to the face, sitting next to a fat guy in an airplane, and photoshopping former President Bush with a chimpanzee. Comedy nearly always arises at expense and suffering of someone or something. You can disagree with using suffering as a comedic prop, but the fact remains it is basically a comedic standard. Possibly even a necessity.

    It should be known, I have nothing but respect for those giving their health and lives to stop the gulf oil spill, the japan nuclear reactor fires, and the reigns of various tyrants in the middle east. But I'm not stupid enough to not see the how needed all this crap is to promote long-overdue change. And I'm not uptight enough to let it drag me down and take it so seriously I can't continue being who I am, which is (knowingly and proudly) a carefree jackass who posts crude and offensive yet incredibly profound material on a random, largely unimportant website.

    So: If you find my posts not to your taste, that's fine. If I have to use more tact to get the message through, that's fine. But asserting I need to resort to more "kicking puppy jokes" because you can't find the humor in human suffering... that's just not kosher, brah.

  2. #22

    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Thank you for a well-argued response. I take your point about human suffering being a primary source for comedy, and it's an interesting perspective to consider.

    I think that the latitude for being a "carefree jackass" is both valid and limited, and it depends on remaining profound. While this is a random, small gaming community, it is a source of investment for numerous people. Being relevant and profound, especially through provocation (in the positive sense of the word), is highly contextual. It is an interesting approach to take that depends exclusively on your tact and rhetorical skill as opposed to the reader having ability to give you platitude. Consequently, your position is favourable so long as you're on top of your game, which is, once again, an interesting prospect.

  3. #23
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    If you can't laugh at yours and others human suffering then I'd be willing to bet you've never had something to truly suffer through yourself or you never overcame it. I'm talking about true suffering. Not those overreactions teenagers are prone to have these days. Finding humor in the grim is a tool for coping and sign of learning to survive. I can find humor in the worst kinds of suffering. Not because I'm heartless or sadistic/masochistic, but because I've been through it and I've overcame it. Honestly, I feel sorry for those who can't.

    In summation, I joke all of the time about human suffering. ESPECIALLY my own. Not because I'm cold, heartless, or whatever, it's because it's a useful way to survive the very suffering you're mocking. When I was young and suffering was a common occurrence among myself and my friends (again not that teen angst common today), we'd joke about death and struggles as if we enjoyed our own suffering. We didn't, I'm sure. Likewise, who are the people who are most obsessed with joking about death and suffering? Soldiers. If you've ever seen a war film that captures the comradery relationship between fellow soldiers then you can see this survival mechanism first hand. My father, who was a Vietnam veteran, has spoken to me in great depth about this. When faced with death, you became desensitive to your death and find it funny. Therefore, you make jokes to make it more tolerable. Likewise, if you suffer for long enough, it'll stop bothering you so much and you'll be able to look back almost fondly. Perhaps you know of Bob Hopes trip to the Vietnam War veterans. Many veterans look back on that day as one of the most important and positive days of their war career. Why? Because it raised their spirits. How did it raise their spirits? Bob made their predicament into a joke. And, they loved it.

    If that's not enough for you and you need Google-verifiable scientific explanations, then considering that the same neurotransmitters and neural pathways that are used to find humor are the same that are used to numb yourself to your problems. Endorphins numb you similar to a painkiller and a steep Dopamine increase gives you the "death knighting" (official English class term for movies/books which have the character become desensitive to his/her own problems) and "devil may care" attitude needed to survive. Dopamine (as well as Serotonin) are also what makes you want to laugh and feel happier when you so. Therefore, it's natural to assume that if someone finds humor in death and suffering, it's caused by the body's learned response to cope with such problems by producing massive amounts of Dopamine to give these atttiude changes which also result in an almost comedic view of the situation. Maybe you can find this information of Google, but I know its in my psych book but I wouldn't even know that because I know I have this as well, and have perfected it. That's also why many suicidal people usually never give a sign that they're depressed, they're running a rush of these neurotransmitters.

    Likewise applies to joking about suffering in general. If I didn't go out of my way to offend them, then I couldn't care less if it does so. It's their problem. If I get shot in the head walking out of my door tomorrow morning, you best believe I expect whoever finds my body to find hilarious humor in the irony of me being randomly shot on my way to school working for a better life.

    But, then again, I've always handled stress and struggles more efficiently than anyone else I know. My father did as well. Maybe its genetic. Either way, everyone should be like me if they have any kind of trials.

    As for "explaining" that you're joking, if you explain a joke then you're diminishing the effect. If the reader doesn't get it, oh well. Maybe it wasn't meant for them. If they get offended, then it's an opportunity for them learn to not be so sensitive. Contrary to popular belief, that's a valuable skill that has far reaching positive benefits in just about every aspect of life. Otherwise, you might as well not even ever tell a joke for fear of offending someone and thus doom everyone to a world dull from the loss of humor.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 03-27-2011 at 05:06 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  4. #24

    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Quote Originally Posted by TychusFindlay View Post
    If you can't laugh at yours and others human suffering then I'd be willing to bet you've never had something to truly suffer through yourself or you never overcame it. I'm talking about true suffering. Not those overreactions teenagers are prone to have these days. Finding humor in the grim is a tool for coping and sign of learning to survive. I can find humor in the worst kinds of suffering. Not because I'm heartless or sadistic/masochistic, but because I've been through it and I've overcame it. Honestly, I feel sorry for those who can't.

    In summation, I joke all of the time about human suffering. ESPECIALLY my own. Not because I'm cold, heartless, or whatever, it's because it's a useful way to survive the very suffering you're mocking. When I was young and suffering was a common occurrence among myself and my friends (again not that teen angst common today), we'd joke about death and struggles as if we enjoyed our own suffering. We didn't, I'm sure. Likewise, who are the people who are most obsessed with joking about death and suffering? Soldiers. If you've ever seen a war film that captures the comradery relationship between fellow soldiers then you can see this survival mechanism first hand. My father, who was a Vietnam veteran, has spoken to me in great depth about this. When faced with death, you became desensitive to your death and find it funny. Therefore, you make jokes to make it more tolerable. Likewise, if you suffer for long enough, it'll stop bothering you so much and you'll be able to look back almost fondly. Perhaps you know of Bob Hopes trip to the Vietnam War veterans. Many veterans look back on that day as one of the most important and positive days of their war career. Why? Because it raised their spirits. How did it raise their spirits? Bob made their predicament into a joke. And, they loved it.

    If that's not enough for you and you need Google-verifiable scientific explanations, then considering that the same neurotransmitters and neural pathways that are used to find humor are the same that are used to numb yourself to your problems. Endorphins numb you similar to a painkiller and a steep Dopamine increase gives you the "death knighting" (official English class term for movies/books which have the character become desensitive to his/her own problems) and "devil may care" attitude needed to survive. Dopamine (as well as Serotonin) are also what makes you want to laugh and feel happier when you so. Therefore, it's natural to assume that if someone finds humor in death and suffering, it's caused by the body's learned response to cope with such problems by producing massive amounts of Dopamine to give these atttiude changes which also result in an almost comedic view of the situation. Maybe you can find this information of Google, but I know its in my psych book but I wouldn't even know that because I know I have this as well, and have perfected it. That's also why many suicidal people usually never give a sign that they're depressed, they're running a rush of these neurotransmitters.

    Likewise applies to joking about suffering in general. If I didn't go out of my way to offend them, then I couldn't care less if it does so. It's their problem. If I get shot in the head walking out of my door tomorrow morning, you best believe I expect whoever finds my body to find hilarious humor in the irony of me being randomly shot on my way to school working for a better life.

    But, then again, I've always handled stress and struggles more efficiently than anyone else I know. My father did as well. Maybe its genetic. Either way, everyone should be like me if they have any kind of trials.

    As for "explaining" that you're joking, if you explain a joke then you're diminishing the effect. If the reader doesn't get it, oh well. Maybe it wasn't meant for them. If they get offended, then it's an opportunity for them learn to not be so sensitive. Contrary to popular belief, that's a valuable skill that has far reaching positive benefits in just about every aspect of life. Otherwise, you might as well not even ever tell a joke for fear of offending someone and thus doom everyone to a world dull from the loss of humor.
    TF, while much of your argument if validated and correct in the right situations, it comes down to one simple point. There is a time and place for everything. I think the issue with this subject has nothing to do with the ability to identify the humor or placement of humor. It's that there is a time or place for everything to be expressed. Likewise, there are times and places where things should be suppressed.

    In many cases, simply changing the tone or approach of your discussion can take a subject that's not acceptable and produce an acceptable result. I believe part of the issue we have with people who get infracted in these forums for when "their sense of humor is misunderstood" is almost universally on the fact that they think that things are acceptable in these forums in a crude manner. I'd say that almost any time that I see something inappropriately stated here, I get the joke while I'm assigning the infraction.

    While I know I won't be able to fully explain my side without an example, take the following subjects.

    One of my good friends died about 2 years ago. He was the joker who would randomly do the random shit that people wouldn't see coming. At his funeral, as a group of friends sat there looking in the casket, one of us looked in the bottom part of the casket and just walked back. We questioned him what he was doing.. the response "I wanted to see if he dropped any epic loot". It was hilarious to us because the target audience were all of the same nature. If you do the exact same thing to his mother and father, despite having a great likewise attitude, they wouldn't have found it funny at all. It'd be a high level of disrespect for THEM, even though it was almost (in some weird way) respectful to the memory of my friend. Later on afterwards at a dinner when we were sharing good memories of our friend, we were able to bring up that exact situation in a form that "even after he's passed away he's getting us to laugh".

    In that same fashion, part of the reason that Bob Hope was so successful out there was because he knew the audience well and crafted his jokes around it. If the audience didn't have that perspective on life, his comments could have easily triggered depression in the soldiers. He also had an experienced eye on how to deliver it in the right words with the greatest amount of tact. This plays a great amount into it. He didn't go out of his way to bring up the best friend of them that died the day before, stating how it was a better world because of his death. That'd be tactless and offend people. You never saw a comedian cracking jokes about 9/11 on 9/12 to the families waiting for results. I don't know of one joke from a comedian about the heroes working round the clock to prevent nuclear disaster over in Japan, but many of them may make jokes regarding the situation itself in a non-personal manner.

    There are times and places for everything... and sometimes the best way to create a time or place is to add a little more thought and editing before you hit the "submit reply" button.
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  5. #25
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Gifted, you murderer. You set force the law of Murphy which has caused a tragic bit of a irony. Apparently, a fellow classmate died last Friday 'after going into cardiac arrest following a routine dental procedure'.

    No joke.

    Anyways, needless to say, I won't be cracking jokes in class next Tuesday (classes tomorrow were canceled) for several reasons. Most notably are, when I make a joke, I have to be certain that everyone understands my personality and that I like to lighten the mood about such things. And, also, because there's undoubtedly people who were close to her and 'overcoming a problem' (i.e. joking about it) comes after grieving. A person needs time to grieve regardless of their ability to find humor in a given problem.

    Anyways, here's what I had typed before:

    I, too, have an example that would probably demonstrate my criteria better than a list of 'rules. In high school, I had a friend who was prone to wrecks. The environment created a mentality among many of my peers of high risk behavior for whatever reason. Anyways, after six relatively minor wrecks, the seventh wreck put my friend into a coma for three days due to a serious concussion. When he awoke, I made a few jokes including something like 'only you could get a concussion on your 7th wreck" (7, of course, supposedly being lucky, if only it were the 9th, I could've made a nine lives jokes ) We both made a jokes, for exammple, did he see any angels? No? You're going to Hell better go to church and what not. I can't remember them very clearly as I have High School Amnesia.

    But, the point is, I never made these jokes around his father. For one, his father was already concerned enough about his risky behavior and I knew jokes would make it seem as if he was suicidal. I knew he wasn't. But, the reasons that are relevant to this are similar to your example, he wouldn't understand the jokes. Even though pretty much everyone from any time period makes jokes about death and danger, they do so in different ways. The jokes were made are decidedly a newer generation type of humor. He wouldn't understand. Plus, of course, he was still in the grieving period. Regardless of a peson's ability to find humor in a siutation, there's still a necesssary time to grieve.

    That being said, my comments of "if they don't get it, oh well" pertain to impersonal, not-as-serious-as-death situations over the internet. Most times when someone misinterprets my posts, it was meant as satire or was a harmless joke that I didn't mean to offend anyone but they did anyways. Its during these times I tend to simply say 'toughen up'. Again, not because I'm an asshole, but because toughening up has benefits in real-life situations such as when you need to accept constructive criticism and handling assholes. I'm having a hard time explaining myself but basically it's something similiar to 'whatever I do, I do for your benefit' although I don't mean that as self-righteous as it sounds. Just can't find any other common sayings to use.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  6. #26

    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Quote Originally Posted by TychusFindlay View Post
    Gifted, you murderer. You set force the law of Murphy which has caused a tragic bit of a irony. Apparently, a fellow classmate died last Friday 'after going into cardiac arrest following a routine dental procedure'.

    No joke.

    Anyways, needless to say, I won't be cracking jokes in class next Tuesday (classes tomorrow were canceled) for several reasons. Most notably are, when I make a joke, I have to be certain that everyone understands my personality and that I like to lighten the mood about such things. And, also, because there's undoubtedly people who were close to her and 'overcoming a problem' (i.e. joking about it) comes after grieving. A person needs time to grieve regardless of their ability to find humor in a given problem.

    Anyways, here's what I had typed before:

    I, too, have an example that would probably demonstrate my criteria better than a list of 'rules. In high school, I had a friend who was prone to wrecks. The environment created a mentality among many of my peers of high risk behavior for whatever reason. Anyways, after six relatively minor wrecks, the seventh wreck put my friend into a coma for three days due to a serious concussion. When he awoke, I made a few jokes including something like 'only you could get a concussion on your 7th wreck" (7, of course, supposedly being lucky, if only it were the 9th, I could've made a nine lives jokes ) We both made a jokes, for exammple, did he see any angels? No? You're going to Hell better go to church and what not. I can't remember them very clearly as I have High School Amnesia.

    But, the point is, I never made these jokes around his father. For one, his father was already concerned enough about his risky behavior and I knew jokes would make it seem as if he was suicidal. I knew he wasn't. But, the reasons that are relevant to this are similar to your example, he wouldn't understand the jokes. Even though pretty much everyone from any time period makes jokes about death and danger, they do so in different ways. The jokes were made are decidedly a newer generation type of humor. He wouldn't understand. Plus, of course, he was still in the grieving period. Regardless of a peson's ability to find humor in a siutation, there's still a necesssary time to grieve.

    That being said, my comments of "if they don't get it, oh well" pertain to impersonal, not-as-serious-as-death situations over the internet. Most times when someone misinterprets my posts, it was meant as satire or was a harmless joke that I didn't mean to offend anyone but they did anyways. Its during these times I tend to simply say 'toughen up'. Again, not because I'm an asshole, but because toughening up has benefits in real-life situations such as when you need to accept constructive criticism and handling assholes. I'm having a hard time explaining myself but basically it's something similiar to 'whatever I do, I do for your benefit' although I don't mean that as self-righteous as it sounds. Just can't find any other common sayings to use.
    *nods* I think we're on the same page. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was stating that you were lacking the tact of timing (I think you know what I'm trying to say with that).

    Just with your full explanation, the lacking inclusion of this very important point (time and place) was what I wanted to comment on. As said above, I think we're on the same page as your post is essentially saying so. My condolences on your friend.

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  7. #27

    Default Re: BP-spill cleanup workers leathally poisoned

    Quote Originally Posted by rise View Post
    Remember to consider the notion of tact while sharing your opinions about world events.[...]You're free to disagree with other poster's opinions, and you're free to have opinions that are unique; however, the onus is on you to question the validity of your own commentary before you post. A poster is responsible for his or her douchebaggery.
    Quote Originally Posted by TychusFindlay View Post
    Don't blame Todie. A European can't help but make wild assumptions about America. It's in their blood.
    i cant help but feel associated with these claims of tactlessness.

    i dont see it stated outright, but we might agree that it can be tacky to continually argue an ideological point founded on an individual case of human suffering; referral to a broader array of sources and causal relationships would be preferable in supporting a point in a respectful and politically correct manner.

    nevertheless, when faced with the horrible, not only can it be necessary to have a sense of tactfully expressed humour about it, but also, to ask and try to answer: why? how?

    ...No matter the subject or medium, people should never hesitate in sharing their opinions or the reasoning behind them, regardless if they're hesitating out of humility, bitterness or what have you; if people keep being quiet; keep self censoring their opinions, the very meanings and foundations of community (or society) become undermined; the less we communicate, the less able we will become to understand other viewpoints and come to progressive agreements, in the present, and increasingly, in the future, as established biases are cemented.

    Silence and passivity favours ignorance and ideological polarization; in world-politics AND in Starcraft.

    //needlessly deep rant on liberal obviousness
    Last edited by Todie; 03-29-2011 at 07:29 AM.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

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