Blizzard replies to campaign criticism

[Turalyon]

If it is indeed nostalgia that makes people think things are good, is it safe to assume that WoL's story would also be deemed good in the future due to people being nostalgic about it? I highly doubt that.

[Genopath]

Could someone explain to me how you can explain bad writing and still keep face by saying we did things good but we could better.
If they didn't realize crap writing then, than they won't realize it now.
If you see that you do something wrong and you correct it during development process you do a good job, but if you see or don't want to see mistakes you've made and you don't correct them your work is worth my own made shit.

The whole campaign is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming industry.
I remember calling that they will de-infest kerrigan and raynor will make an alliance with her to beat off a bigger threat... look how that work'd out.
http://blizzforums.com/showthread.ph...ght=deinfested
(lol actually at BF I have even more proof of how the plot I made up from scratches and artworks is covering with the actuall plot in wol)


If I can predict such stuff and write even better scripts for the campaign without having and degree or exp in writing stories than who the fuck works at blizzard!? Drunk monkey could do better.

I hate to say it but, the flaming aside, I agree with spychi post. However, Blizz isn't saying anything about what they really do inside. For all we know they could have fired the entire writing department and are simply posting that to avoid bad press. Quite simply, if they would do this the relevant question would be why did they hire those writers in the first place. Call it speculation but I believe it's something really resemblant of the truth.

[mr. peasant]

If it is indeed nostalgia that makes people think things are good, is it safe to assume that WoL's story would also be deemed good in the future due to people being nostalgic about it? I highly doubt that.

I think it's more about this being in effect.

[spychi]

I hate to say it but, the flaming aside, I agree with spychi post. However, Blizz isn't saying anything about what they really do inside. For all we know they could have fired the entire writing department and are simply posting that to avoid bad press. Quite simply, if they would do this the relevant question would be why did they hire those writers in the first place. Call it speculation but I believe it's something really resemblant of the truth.

Dude as far as I recall Metzen was one of the lead writers, that says something... I see it this way
Blizzard 2007
Yay StarCraft 2 omnomnom, we were working on SC2 for some time k thx bai
Blizzard 2008
yay epic StarCraft 2
Blizzard 2009
oh fuck we forgot to actually make the singleplayer oh well later we will make a story with cheap lines that ends cheap...but wait it will be even more epic StarCraft 2 with a huge trilogy campaign
zomg we are working very hard on the campaign, we hire old Robbie, but we don't hire the most wanted Glyn, k thx roflpwned bai
Blizzard 2010
beta omnomnom, hype hype hype...oh crap singleplayer campaign
writers we did an awesome job

RELEASE
screw fans multiplayer is the most important thing

[Gifted]

Spychi, I can see your concerns, we've talked about them off and on. My argument with you is how you present your side.

The writing could be better, granted.
The plot could have had more coherancy, granted.
Calling it the worst thing in the gaming industry? That's outright bogus and the more you say things like this, the more I realize that you're just airing your emotions and not your thoughts. And as I read later posts I see more emotional lashing out and less concrete information as you go on.

*cracks knuckles* It's time.

Could someone explain to me how you can explain bad writing and still keep face by saying we did things good but we could better.

The writing was not horrible in my eyes but could be improved upon greatly. I'm saying that now. You're saying it was horrible and should have been better. Before we argue back and forth, let's establish that right now. We disagree and nothing either of us will do can sway the other's opinions. Those are our platforms, let's not waste time trying to convince the other they are wrong.

If they didn't realize crap writing then, than they won't realize it now.

This is the moment I start to facepalm on your input. I'll put it here and now, Blizzard is not like you, they are a business who sell products. They happen to have a passion for what they do and want to make the best product they can. You are a person who can be arrogant and sometimes care SO MUCH about letting your emotions come out that you won't listen to facts thrown right in your face and enjoy making up facts to help support your cause. This is not Blizzard.

When they tell you flat out "We know that it can be improved and are wanting more feedback", I'm sure that it's coming in for their reports. This is what they are listening to. No matter how I feel that I enjoyed the story, it'd be naive to act like the entire portion of the VERY VERBAL playerbase that's crying out about the story, all the reviews by the critics, all the reviews by the major media conglomerate won't be listened to. It's very important from a business standard to listen and react to this input. This is what will sell more products, and whether you like to hear it or not, Blizzard is listening, it serves their purposes to do so.

If you see that you do something wrong and you correct it during development process you do a good job, but if you see or don't want to see mistakes you've made and you don't correct them your work is worth my own made shit.

I think it's a case that you are over exaggerating the importance of your opinion. The core feedback that they are receiving that's valuable is simply the fact that it WAS adequate storytelling, but it was NOWHERE near the quality that the community craved. This is because of A,B,C,D,etc. People who had no experience with the first game had an overall positive experience from the game because they are comparing it to other games in the genre, which honestly, it blew all the other RTS candidates out of the water in terms of production value and memorable characters.

I'm going to say something that MAY sound like a flame, but it's not intended that way. It's the 100% truth. Blizzard will care about constructive feedback. They won't listen to YOUR feedback Spychi. (At least how you present it here) This is just based on your platform. When you talk about the story, you care more about getting your emotions understood than caring about improving a product. Your goal is simply not aligned with them in the fashion you speak. (Assuming that every word you said in these forums were the style of conversation you'd throw at them)

You hate their product, others do too. They'll listen to the same complaints you guys wildly throw out in the same form as people who said "Ya know, these are the issues I have with the campaign". Your input is NOT unique, it's not special, you get no cookies for starting a motion. If what you had to say was important regarding a point that needs to improve, there are hundreds to thousands of posts and words that get the point across to the ears who are listening.

Lastly, you expect that the ears aren't listening, and for that reason you are the style of person who won't be listened to.

The whole campaign is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming industry.

This is an exact line that proves my point. Really? What about static price points? How about rampant layoffs? A requirement of unreal deadlines that creates perpetual crunch? Spyrocketing divorce rates for developers? ET for the Atari? The impending collapse of the industry in the 80s? Mortal Kombat? MMORPGs? Social Gaming? Piracy? Losing the little "wheel decyfer" for your instruction manual for the game you wanted to play cause of premature DRM in the 80s? The Retro Movement? Flamewars on forums? DRM?

There are SO MANY points out there that can actually hold a candle to this argument. Saying that the story of a single game is the worst thing to the industry shows a high level of naivety and emotionally wailing. This statement is false no matter what level you look at it. It's simply exaggerated... extravagantly exaggerated.

I remember calling that they will de-infest kerrigan and raynor will make an alliance with her to beat off a bigger threat... look how that work'd out.
http://blizzforums.com/showthread.ph...ght=deinfested
(lol actually at BF I have even more proof of how the plot I made up from scratches and artworks is covering with the actuall plot in wol)

We'll have to see how it goes. No need to discuss this, it's speculation afterall.

If I can predict such stuff and write even better scripts for the campaign without having and degree or exp in writing stories than who the fuck works at blizzard!? Drunk monkey could do better.

Predicting stories is easy in this industry now. Almost all of it has been done. The first storyline that "surprised me" in the past many years was "Braid", only because the story of it was brilliantly hidden and was riddled in metaphor, even then it was subtle. Every story now is generic and is a remix. This isn't hard and is why those rather rare gems that suddenly manage to make you surprised are very worthwhile. Cliffhanger endings are, though remixed often, are considered the best endings now cause it lets your mind fill in the gaps.

To say that you can write better. I challenge you Spychi. Prove it. Write up a full script for SC2: WoL that would have been better. I can't argue with any relevance of the fact that you can do a better job without you actually doing it. In other words, put your actions where your mouth is and prove it. Pick a scene and write it better than Blizzard did. And to take that challenge further... find a drunk monkey who can write a better story. I dare you.

I'm challenging you this because this is another case of you making emotional lashouts and providing fake proof behind them, just in a very small form. It's a flame. An outright flame with no proof to back it up.

*cracks knuckles* That was fun.

[spychi]

To say that you can write better. I challenge you Spychi. Prove it. Write up a full script for SC2: WoL that would have been better. I can't argue with any relevance of the fact that you can do a better job without you actually doing it. In other words, put your actions where your mouth is and prove it. Pick a scene and write it better than Blizzard did. And to take that challenge further... find a drunk monkey who can write a better story. I dare you.

i'm going straight up to this point, other ones we can discuss on vent
The reason I writed that is because people liked my version and scripts for the part when Raynor meets with the Mobious fund alot more

it would take me months to do it, but I am capable of doing it better
the part about kerrigan getting de-infested and uniting with Raynor to fight off a bigger threat is actually more as a fact than a speculation
predicting such stuff might be easy at some point, like Kerrigan's de-infestation but the rest of it isn't at least I didn't see anyone at theorycrafting doing such speculation about how Kerrigan is going to unite with Raynor and others

[Eligor]

My two cents on the whole thing:

Blizzard lost the spirit of StarCraft and is unlikely to capture it again. At least not with the approach they've been taking to writing for quite some time (outsourcing major plot elements into tie in novels written by hired tie-in writers, trying to follow trends and imitate "what's hot" in the gaming and "geek" communities (such as Mass Effect, Serenity et cetera), putting in too many extraneous pop culture references, sacking established voice actors for the sake of (relatively) more famous stars to the detriment of the continuity and so on). They've forgotten what they do best when it comes to story, and since they're popular enough with the purely gameplay oriented majority (which includes both casual and hardcore players, those who care for the story usually fall squarely in between), being self-critical or perfectionist in that department isn't such a great priority for them anymore. Metzen is a great writer and designer, but his standards concerning others' work are rather lax to put it mildly (if they weren't, we wouldn't have had "Shadow of the Xel'Naga" or most of the other tie-in novels either for that matter).

With the growth and the financial success they had this is all somewhat inevitable, and it's difficult enough to maintain artistic integrity when you're thinking of what you're doing as a "product" anyway. All of this isn't such a great tragedy, or at least, not one worth mourning over for too long, since there is little we can do in any case (except not buying the games we don't like and offering thought out and articulate criticism when it's due (and any criticism of a story HAS to go far beyond "it sucks!" or "it's crap!", it HAS to identify the problems and get to the very roots of their causes, or at least try to, and do it with verve and intelligence, otherwise it's worthless, sound and fury signifying nothing!)). This is specifically pertinent to spychi's posts: The game is out for quite some time now and it has been successful, can't change that. Any arguments you bring against it must amount to more than short and hastily edited (if sincere) forum posts (and even then you don't have a guarantee that it'll have the desired effect).


Ultimately, all things must end and we had our period of well written and carefully crafted Blizzard games, right up to "The Frozen Throne", and it was a different company that made them. And shoddy sequels don't spoil great originals just as crap adaptations don't spoil great books, we still have those on the shelves and (most important) in our hearts.

I think I've already said this all before (and others probably have too), but as the topic keeps resurfacing again and again I guess trying to sum it all up one more time won't hurt (for myself as well as for others). All of this is also the reason why I don't post here much anymore. I'm still looking forward to Diablo III (and perhaps even that mysterious unnamed MMO), but considering the direction StarCraft II went, the multiple retcons and the general lack of attention and care to the story and world building on Blizzard's part lore seems hardly to merit serious consideration or interest to me. And gameplay discussion is better left for pros. So that's that. Apologies if the post comes off as rambling and self indulgent in parts (it's just one poster's thoughts on the subject with some attempt to coherently organise them) and thanks for reading if you got this far, hopefully it all merits at least a cursory consideration.

[broodmywarcraft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w

Eligor, you blew my mind with your righteousness!

I salute you!!

[phazonjunkie]

If it is indeed nostalgia that makes people think things are good, is it safe to assume that WoL's story would also be deemed good in the future due to people being nostalgic about it.

Yes, basically.

[Turalyon]

Yes, basically.

Please explain your reasoning. I doubt the original game's story had this much venom spewed (not just general dislike, mind you) against it such that I doubt that people would give SC2's story praise even after another 12 years has passed.

I think Peasants reference to "First Installment Wins" is a better explanation.