"There is no place for Lurker" WTF is mothership then?

[TheEconomist]

@dustinbrowder and Wankey: They are world renowned developers who have proven their abilities to design and balance RTS games and have spent thousands of combined hours testing. Yet, you with no game design experience and nothing to lose by making wild changes are a better developer just because you theorycraft for a few minutes?

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They are world renowned developers who have proven their abilities to design and balance RTS games and have spent thousands of combined hours testing.

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They are world renowned developers

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They are world renowned developers

Understand now?

Dustin Browder is one man. Regardless of his positon, the game does not succeed or fail solely based on him.

I had assumed you would understand this but I guess not. Then again, you think you know better than someone who does this for a living, quite successfully too.

[Triceron]

It's pretty simple, really.

The world editor is out. It lets you do anything from change the damage of a zergling to add a completely new unit with completely new abilities.

You really think you can design better than Blizzard? You're free to try.

[RamiZ]

It's pretty simple, really.

The world editor is out. It lets you do anything from change the damage of a zergling to add a completely new unit with completely new abilities.

You really think you can design better than Blizzard? You're free to try.

It is not that simple at all. People that think they know how to balance game and what changes should they add, will not see anything except "successful balance".

I know people that said Stalkers need 7 range(!?) or any kind of buff, and if they try it out in Map Editor, they won't see something imbalanced, they will see that it is easier to play, and that they have less problems when using Stalkers on the some fields, but they won't admit that it is bad change.

I mean, we will see it, but we can see it anyway, even before some of the changes are implemented, they won't, and they will think they are good as/better than Blizzard.

[SinsWage]

It just doesn't matter what game you play there's always this ignorant contingent who thinks they can armchair design a better game in a couple hours with only a few pro games and their personal experience as their source material.

[hyde]

I have to say though....
I think the lurker could be added back.

I'm only a casual 1v1 diamond with around 1000++ points, but my TvZ opening is pretty lethal IMO

-blocked ramp
-4 hellion + blue flame +
Usually causes a baneling bust on me
-Micro hellions and then proceed to BBQ drones
-Start Amory/Transistion to 2nd factory+Reactor = Thors + Hellions
-Force Zerg player to transist to Roaches due to the hellion harass
-Finish the game

Is pretty strong. I don't see any counter to this except an all in early zergling rush. Turtle'ing doesn't work either due to thor cannons. Roaches get BBQ'd by the Thors. Baneling/Speedlings can't touch the hellions. A transistion to Mutalisks takes too long, especially after being BBQ'd by hellions. Plus with some marine support, 1 thor can easily take out 3 Mutalisks so long as you bring SCV's to repair.
I've beat several 2500+ Point Diamond zerg players with this, and I'm probably a solid 80%+ Win rate against Zerg.

The only unit I really see that could counter this is the lurker... BUT with the existence of the thor, it won't be that hard to just "Assault" lurkers (Unlike Brood war). Especially with the 250MM cannon stun, the lurkers are sitting ducks.
But they could ward off hellion rush abuse. But I can see the design team's concern. With the inclusion of Marauders/Thors, the lurkers will only tickle them and still prove ineffective.

[Triceron]

It is not that simple at all. People that think they know how to balance game and what changes should they add, will not see anything except "successful balance".

I know people that said Stalkers need 7 range(!?) or any kind of buff, and if they try it out in Map Editor, they won't see something imbalanced, they will see that it is easier to play, and that they have less problems when using Stalkers on the some fields, but they won't admit that it is bad change.

I mean, we will see it, but we can see it anyway, even before some of the changes are implemented, they won't, and they will think they are good as/better than Blizzard.

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Balance can't be found through theorycraft. It needs to be tested, and actually doing something is always one step closer to learning about how balance works. Even if it changes the gameplay, it's a good way to figure out what works and what doesn't, and why.

I do see your point that it would bolster the ideals of those who just don't get it, but it's not like not like anything else is going to be any more effective at proving it wrong. Theorycraft vs theorycraft ends up nowhere.

[TheEconomist]

It just doesn't matter what game you play there's always this ignorant contingent who thinks they can armchair design a better game in a couple hours with only a few pro games and their personal experience as their source material.

For the first time, I understand why people call you my sidekick.

You counter illogical posts and bring forth reason. We are a match made in heaven.

[Quirel]

For the first time, I understand why people call you my sidekick.

You counter illogical posts and bring forth reason. We are a match made in heaven.

Let the wedding commence. Demolitionsquid is in charge of decoration and catering. Do we have a registered minister here?

[TheEconomist]

Don't make me go Bridezilla on your ass. I've put a lot of thought into this and my day WILL be purrrrrfect.

Sarov is decoration and catering. Gradius will be the minister.

[Gradius]

Indeed, I am ordained in StarCraftism. I will bless you in the name of the Zerry, the Kerry, and the Holy Raynor.

May Christ Metzen look favorably upon this upcoming matrimony.