Reapers?

[flak4321]

I tend to think of Reapers as an early game-centric unit. However, if you are effective with your scanning and spot Stalkers alone or mixed with Zealots, consider Reapers over Hellions for a harass (direct or drop) as they seem to do equally well vs. Stalkers and Zealots whereas Hellions don't do so well against Stalkers. At least that's my observation. I could be missing something.

One thing is for sure, Reapers are much better vs. buildings. Opt for reapers for better expo denial if you catch it just after Hatch/nexus/CC completion, though this requires you get the speed upgrade.

And they do have a nifty late game tactic that Hellions can't match because of the dmg vs. buildings. Send a few to the back of an opponent's main mid-late game while your main army draws his/hers out and focus down suppys/pylons/tech buildings, defenses that may be in place not withstanding.

[MulletBen]

I think we need some reaper favoring map-features, like a little cliff inside an enemy base where a reaper can jump up to and not be seen. Not like the insanely OP reaper cliff in that one 4v4 map back in beta, but something so they can't hit the mineral line or the main building, just retreat and hide.

Of course, this would all be shut down by queen/overlord/stalker/observer/marine/marauder/scan. Until the opponent manages to get sight over the cliff, using reapers could be an effective harass and scouting tool.

The cliff would also have to be smaller than a thor, so nothing reminiscent of the LT cliff scandal happens.

[hyde]

Funny thing about reapers is people only think to use them early on in the game. Nobody considers switching tech mid-late game into reapers to harass mineral lines or scout. This is at least from my own experience as a majority team-game player.

After about 7 minutes into the game I forget about the reaper altogether and don't even think to use them.

In 1v1's, the cost of building the barracks/gas of the reaper is just too much when you can slap on reactors to 2 starports and pump out a raiding viking fleet that also serves as strong AA.

I love the reaper unit too but it's just a pain in the ass to assemble them without sacrificing your normal play/units. And if you do have the economy to support them + your regular operations ; your enemy is doing something horribly wrong haha.

[Caliban113]

Big fan of the Reaper, and am convinced they have a late game use. (for people with better APM ) 6-8 of those things can clear out a mineral line faster than anything else in the game, even Mutas - I'll throw a couple into a 3-rax build, and send them around the back while the main group attacks the front - In 3v3 play, I love using them on maps like, 'Monsoon' - where if you spawn on one of the side bases, you have quick way into one of the other team's side base, and you can pretty much just take a tour all the way across to the other side. Also great for when someone tries to take that gold right next to you.

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[SinsWage]

Blazur and Caliban have it right, the reaper is a great unit to use once people think the danger of them coming has passed.

[Todie]

Reapers?

No.

in all seriousness though, this:

Funny thing about reapers is people only think to use them early on in the game. Nobody considers switching tech mid-late game into reapers to harass mineral lines or scout. This is at least from my own experience as a majority team-game player.

After about 7 minutes into the game I forget about the reaper altogether and don't even think to use them.

Reapers with speed remain awesome, while fragile and costly in both resources and buildtime.

However, i dont find the idea of midgame reapers too farfetched, as dedicating some rax & techlabs to reaper production for a minute or so shouldnt need to set the terran back much more than 6-7 marauders; a setback in momentum that -lacking any pre-existing momentum advantage- can be compensated for with defensive measures (Bunker, PF + building upps), while the host of 5+ reapers creates enough super-mobile map control to force the enemy to either get really defensive or extremely dedicated to causing real damage whenever he makes a map-move (as a reaper counter-attack WILL hurt him, swiftly!)

I guess that was a bit abstract and theoretical, am i making any sense?

... But even presuming reapers can still be awesome, its also clear that making raper use awesome demands two things of the terran player:
1) Plan for the momentum-setback that reaper production comes with.(i wouldnt close my eyes and cross my fingers hoping to get away with producing reapers)
2) Multi-task properly during the use of the reapers; there is vastly more at stake and more options of movement and targeting during reaper harassment as compared to helion, drop, or even banshee harassment.. This isnt saying it cant be done at a lower level or with lower APM's (its all relative i wouldnt recomend it to ppl below diamond who wants to "improve")

... In any case, you need to learn your limits; understand when doing what is worth your time more; if you can only multitask well enough to control your reapers 10 seconds of every minute while keeping macromanagment at a reasonable level, then thats what you should do. (while making sure the minimal time spent microing reapers keeps them alive and distracts the enemy)

... its difficult to strike this balance, especially while staying on track with some sort of longer term gameplan

I feel that they are the worst vs zerg because of their queens.

in low numbers, yes. in numbers of 4-5+ and/or with upgrades, single queens and even crawlers quickly become overrun.. but midgame, mutas and lings that outrun speedreapers on big creepspread becomes a problem i guess. (though i bet terrans can play an aggressive earlygame to limit the creepspread) ... i have a feeling speedreapers are able to outrun mutas, and reapers wih an upgrade advantage on lings would be interesting to see... Finally: what about reapers in bunkers? that would smelt lings about as fast as a PF...

I tend to [...] consider Reapers over Hellions for a harass (direct or drop) as they seem to do equally well vs. Stalkers and Zealots whereas Hellions don't do so well against Stalkers. At least that's my observation. I could be missing something. [...]

(i hope im not misquoting you here.)

You have to take their cost into account. 50 gas is a tremendous investment. with this in mind, Reapers are very far from being cost effective against stalkers, as they dont deal any bonus damage against them, only 4x2 (3x2 vs the hull). Reapers are great at kiting zealots (and in theory dive in for sentry kills) but as soon as there are some stalkers out and about, they need to avoid direct confrontation; given reaper fragility comapred to its cost, even taking a few stalker shots really stings.

Compare that with helion, who cost only minerals; its often an acceptable sacrifice to try to run some helions by a stalker formation, hoping it'll land some probe kills, because the helions only cost minerals.

Reapers might still be a neat trick vs P, you just need to steer clear of big stalker formations (and be otherwise able to avoid getting devastated by that P army with stalkers n shit in it, despite having spent on reapers)

... if you can create the situation, reapers can hop in and wreak havoc if they are able to outgun (or ignore) any defense left behind (stakers, canons) .... The main obstacle here is warped in defenders; as is, both stalekrs and HT's might get warped in and ruin your day. after patch, it'll only be stalekrs...

i can think of two solutions;
1) Have the reapers on standby, spot the warpin timing and move in just in time to abuse the warpgate cooldown. this should buy some 15ish seconds before shit warps in (-> retreat)
2) raven cover is thx.... (point defense drone = the gotdamn ultimate way to buy time vs a lesser number of stalkers) this is far-fetched, and a heavy investment in gas and tech to have a raven with energy and enough reapers (with speed) out and n position. i wouldnt deliberately aim for it, or build a gameplan around trying to implement the tactic, but its still cool to keep in mind; think of what circumstances might allow for this.

..... Really, this is the type of cute tactical situation that attracts me to the terran race.


Thanks for reading.

[RamiZ]

Blazur and Caliban have it right, the reaper is a great unit to use once people think the danger of them coming has passed.

It really isn't. The reaper has the least counters in early game, where in mid/late game, everything can counter Reapers. Still, Hellions > Reapers in harassment and cost. And while you can just make one Factory with Reactor and pump Hellions, you can't do the same with Reapers, and while you are making them, you are not making other units that are needed in combat like Marines/Marauders/Ghosts.

Reapers are basically useless in combat, ok not useless, but highly situational. You are taking the big risk by switching to Reapers, and if you do switch and enemy has scouted, you are already dead. I'm not saying that Reapers aren't viable, but you will certainly do better with other units.

[flak4321]

@Todie: I agree that a large group of Stalkers and warp-in units would be problematic. I think I have to check the Stalker and Reaper unit profiles. It was my assumption that they are considered light, making reapers get the same dmg bonus hellions would get, as they both seem to get it vs. Zealots.

Any late game reaper tactics would have to be planned for and would not be worth betting the bank on. I look at these situations as opportunities to buy time to rebuild following the main battle I mentioned forcing to distract away from the reaper play. Alone these tactics would become costly and suicidal, but not as costly as it would seem.

The 50 gas is made up for by the lack of gas needed elsewhere by terrans. Terran assault air is gas cheap compared to Toss: 100 ban, 300 bc, 75 vike, 200 raven, 100 medi = 775 (plus 150xports w/ reactor and 125xports w/ techs) vs 150 void, 100 phoenix, 250 carrier, 75 obs, 300 MS = 875 (plus 150xNo. of stargates). Factor also the terran ability to switch add-ons for some savings. The gas cost is not made up vs Zerg in any facet, so this would be a vs P only situation.

[imdrunkontea]

on the public server i tried a 5-reaper harass/rush straight for the zerg main (he FE'd) and took out several drones and his roach warren, and kept coming back every now and then just to keep him on his toes. as previous people said, terran only needs minerals for the majority of its forces, so i just massed marauders/marines with a couple tanks, and there wasn't much he could do, since he had started to invest in static d and roaches to counter the reapers.

altho, im sure a better player could defend against this more easily, but then again i'm not that great myself.

[sandwich_bird]

Making their speed upgrade not require the factory would go a long way in helping them. Just switching the factory with the engineering bay would help a lot because of the gas that the factory cost.