PTR Patch 1.3.0

[protoswarrior]

PvT is High Templar-less now...

What a surprise...

Gogogo mass gate/Colossi on 2 forge upgrades. Oh wait, that was the same for all other players that did not go HT, only now, every Protoss is going Colossi. Just looks at TSL 3...

Yeah, HT are broken now.

[Todie]

give it time. im no expert in the matchup, but i think the predictability of colossi-stubborn strategies could open up for more marine drops and raven/banshee play in TvP lategame, witch, again, might cause a swing back to complimentary, defensive preemtve HT use.

also, given that the pure colossi centric into HT-centric transition can no longer be as effective, How will P's be reactng to sitautions where terrans are able to gather enough momentum to forcefully compose vs colossi-centrism with the right nubmers and ratios of Vikings marauders and even tanks?; in situations where it is momentary futile to field more colossi, how will P's react? how will they spend their gas?

... at first sight and shorterm, observable in metagame, this may all just seem like a setback for protoss, a disadvantage and little more. But i think its important to see that P's can and will adapt; the use of lategame gas becomes much more of an open question; you can make phoenii to take back the skies from vikings and allow more colossi dominance later, you can opt for a DT/archon transition more often, you can reinforce your sentry count and keep using FF and even hallucination on increasingly large scale throughout the game, you can try to fit some VR/Carrier/MS into your composition (assuming you're able to control the air around them well enough with phoenii and/or stalkers), you can get immortal heavy, and, you can still actually use HT's; perhaps while relying more on their defensive capabilities and synergies with other P units, than as so often previously; transitioning into HT's as the main gas-sink for the shear damage potential of warped-in storms .


... these conceptual strategic alternatives are not at all as clear-cut ad probably significantly harder to wield to full potential, but as protoss players get more used to it, i think it'll lead to more dynamic gameplay, often to their advantage, as it'll be less predictable.

[protoswarrior]

What you say may be true in SOME situations, but there is an assumption that the gateway core CAN sustain the Protoss army long enough to use those alternative lategame strategies. The FACT that core gate units are shitty as fuck, really weakens ANY lategame strategy that does not involve AoE mass damage like Storm or Colossus.

The thing about lategame Protoss is you are still using what is available as lategame tech for tools to win. That is a limited set of options.

What lategame tech can be used interchangeably in a synergy that does not involve massive gas sinks that screw you ultimate winning card later? So far, I only see a very surprise mass transition to 4 stargate voids with colossus support similar to what we saw in Beta from KiwiKaKi. The problem with that is it used to hinge on a HT heavy late midgame. DT are too expensive and too weak for cost against MMM + viking heavy tech. Add in 1-2 Ghosts and it is impossible to beat Terran with DT/chargelot/Stalker/sentry unless you dealt a heavy heavy blow that crippled Terran early enough to ALLOW the time to get superior numbers. That's wishful thinking though.

Again, I ask, what lategame tech option does Protoss have that can deal with the linear infantry tech path of Terran supported by 1-2 midgame tech units?
Ghosts are midgame Tier 2 tech, btw. Also consider that after having an army heavy on bio + viking and maybe a ghost or 2, you add in 1-2 ravens as tier 3 support casters on 4+ bases and you get yourself an army that requires Protoss to have some sort of killer tech:

- Carriers? No. Directly countered by existing Viking counts out for Colossi
- Voids? Same as above, unless it is a massive change in tech that is largely dependent on timing and luck.
- Archons in mass with maybe DT tech? EMP + marauder slow = gg to that.
- HT? Painfully no.
- Immortals? Emp > shields...
- Phoenix? EMP and or vikings nullify them pretty handily. SOOO many PvT's where Pnx colossus was attempted failed so miserably...


So we're really left with mass mass colossi with a lot of gate support (like 16 WG), or mass Col/Void at a very SPECIFIC timing.

I don't know. As I said, Blizzard just broke HT beyond repair, and in the process murdered lategame PvT for Protoss. Terrans going bio right now can easily get into a mass mech mentality supported by bio à-la-Mvp, and steam-roll Protoss with midgame drops that delay and hurt enough that P is forced into attacking into siege lines with Immortal/chargelot/Colossi/Stalker and most likely lose.

[IchibanBaka]

All terrans I match up with just blindly go from vikings in the mid-late game...

I always wondered why the medivac doesn't require a tech lab. It would be nice for terrans to actually invest in a tech switch to combat the colossi...

[JackhammerIV]

All terrans I match up with just blindly go from vikings in the mid-late game...

I always wondered why the medivac doesn't require a tech lab. It would be nice for terrans to actually invest in a tech switch to combat the colossi...

Wrong thread. I think you meant to post here....
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthrea...t=12408&page=3

I've noticed the same thing too.