Zerg ultimate.

[flak4321]

I don't think the Zerg needs an "ultimate" nor do I really think any of the races has a true ultimate by the definition that opened this thread. The MS's speed makes it a liability to use in the open field every bit as much as the corruptor, making vortex potentially costly, especially vs. vikings. Because of the changes in certain building hitpoints, nukes are not as devastating as they used to be, nor are they quite as easy to use now, though using one on an opposing terran's front door to emulate a baneling bust on his suppys before sending in your main army can be painful.

[deloctyte]

Alright, that "Top Tier" is the Broodlord, Carrier, Battlecruiser trio, just sayin'.

As for the topic. The Ultimate is one of the special traits of the Protoss that Blizzard tried to make work.

In my opinion, it didn't work out so well, but that's just me. The whole idea behind starcraft is to have three quite different rances against each-other. No mirrors. Well, no straight-angleled ones, anyways. Even if giving everyone an Ultimate would be a good idea, I doubt Blizzard would go with that, given how even their current one isn't used that much.

While I DO agree that Zerg are lacking somewhat to the other races diversity-wise, I'm hoping the expansion will fix that. ^^

As for Nyduses, they're cute, but I stoped using them past Beta. They just don't seem to be worth the effort that much...

[TheEconomist]

Zerg are about swarming in numbers. An Ultimate similiar to the Mothership would be the antithesis of that.

[Arkalis]

Zerg are about swarming in numbers. An Ultimate similiar to the Mothership would be the antithesis of that.

Then the Zerg ultimate should be the pinnacle of swarming numbers...maybe something that spawns a high number of units? Kinda like the Brood Lord...

And should this be in the strat section?

[kyr200]

Has anyone mentioned the Raven yet? That thing can reveal cloaked units, point defense drone, seeker missile, auto turret. If your talking about comparisons then lets say that
Auto turret = infested terran
seeker missle = psi storm = emp = fungal growth
point defense drone = guardian shield
I know that these spells can't really be compared. Just making sure the Raven is noticed in this thread.

[TheEconomist]

Then the Zerg ultimate should be the pinnacle of swarming numbers...maybe something that spawns a high number of units? Kinda like the Brood Lord...

And should this be in the strat section?

It would still be one powerful unit.

[B~E]

A macro mechanic then.

[TheEconomist]

.... Just what the game needs ...

[deloctyte]

Well, the best I can come up with for "mechanic" instead of unit would be a T3 tech research that would damage every enemy unit on creep...


But come on, that would be ridicculus, no?

[YourockLoL]

You misunderstood me. I'm saying the key spellcasters are some of the "ultimate units". There's obviously more than one. You can consider colossus, siege tanks, broodlords, etc ultimate units. Ultimate in the sense that they're really good and are tech units and in the late game you want more of them and less of lower tier units. Some units are just so good they can be ultimate without having to be the "highest tier". If you wanna go top tier units then the ultimate units are infestor, broodlord, ultralisk, carrier, mothership, dark templar, high templar, colossus, thor, battlecruiser, ghost(maybe).

And about mothership/nydus argument. How long does it take to get 1 mothership?? How long does it take to get a nydus?? The point of the nydus is that you have more than 1 of them. Mothership just only have 1. If you can have more nyduses then obviously you'll do the things like have sight, slow unload, costs resources etc or it would be completely overpowered.

EDIT: And really colossi right now are more the ultimate unit for protoss than the mothership. They do really good damage with splash and long range. A mothership on full energy can case 2 vortexes/mass recalls. But just 1 ghost of 1 HT can just take away all the mothership's energy and it becomes just a big slow target. Hmmmm...yourocklol your profile says gold league. Kinda explains why you started the thread talking about motherships and nukes.:P It's been a really long time since I've seen a mothership or nuke in ladder play but I haven't been playing much lately.

I know what you mean about the spellcasters, i agree that infestors are great , i used to lock down expansions with infested terrans just by bringing 1 overlord there to spawn creep so the infested terrans could give chase to a flying orbital command.

You can chronoboost the mothership, making it faster to spawn , you can have alot of nydus , because 1 initial building can spawn alot of worms, but if the building gets sniped with your units inside, you just lost alot of units mothership recall has half of the risk(EMP or Feedback , which can't happend in ZvP)

Lets think for a moment about units:
i consider ultimates only game breaker units or spells
Colossi , Ultralisk , thors , those are massives ( i do know that the mothership is a masive aswell , but is an unique unit)
Zerg needs 2 things , and only 2 things(either one or the other) to be balanced(and i know i took the thread to the balance issue/talk):
1)Something to lock down assault units such as Tanks , Thors , Colossi, immortals , the best assault units vs zerg are the siege tanks + the thors , dealing with siege tanks(of course you can throw a billon of zerglings to deal with the mech , but is a big loss, aswell as corruptors for the colossi , the colossi is the only assault unit that can be counter well by zerg players) in the middle game is sooo hard for a zerg player, so what i am thinking is: lets give zerg something that they can bring into mid game if the player rushes to tech it, that can counter those type of mech.But in order to not be overpowered it can't be a regular unit cuz if a zerg unit can absorv the damage from a tank then is pretty much imbalanced, and now is when it comes to mind the ultralisk, but all the other ground massive units are Ranged which makes the slow ultralisk weak, because when it gets to the target it's already on half HP.So having an ultimate that can lockdown the mech at least for 10 seconds is all that a zerg player needs.
2)Give the zerg a very effective assault unit , but really expensive (even with high cost but with better quality than an ultralisk)

Regarding broodlords , those are really Gas intensive units, which makes hard to give air support to them , you need a really high economy to morph in corruptors at the same time that you are producing broodlords out of corruptors that you already have, cuz if you don't have air superiority join in the fight with the broodlords , they eventually die.

Regarding my ladder position , i am more of a 2v2 player , and i do not have that much time to ladder.

Has anyone mentioned the Raven yet? That thing can reveal cloaked units, point defense drone, seeker missile, auto turret. If your talking about comparisons then lets say that
Auto turret = infested terran
seeker missle = psi storm = emp = fungal growth
point defense drone = guardian shield
I know that these spells can't really be compared. Just making sure the Raven is noticed in this thread.

thanks you , i completly forgot about ravens , even do i use them alot, they are deadly on 2v2 with the seeker misile and strong defensive units with that PDD , aswell as annoying with the turrets.
and the sentry , the good old sentry , sooo overpowered in ZvP early/ mid game.

Alright, that "Top Tier" is the Broodlord, Carrier, Battlecruiser trio, just sayin'.

As for the topic. The Ultimate is one of the special traits of the Protoss that Blizzard tried to make work.

In my opinion, it didn't work out so well, but that's just me. The whole idea behind starcraft is to have three quite different rances against each-other. No mirrors. Well, no straight-angleled ones, anyways. Even if giving everyone an Ultimate would be a good idea, I doubt Blizzard would go with that, given how even their current one isn't used that much.

While I DO agree that Zerg are lacking somewhat to the other races diversity-wise, I'm hoping the expansion will fix that. ^^

As for Nyduses, they're cute, but I stoped using them past Beta. They just don't seem to be worth the effort that much...

i agree on almost every point , but the mothership in the hands of an expert like KiWikaki is lethal.

But just 1 ghost of 1 HT can just take away all the mothership's energy and it becomes just a big slow target

having in mind that we are taling about Zvs ... everything , so there will be no EMP or Feedback on the mothership when it comes to ZvP , the only thing in zerg favours is neural parasite on the mothership , which is hard to make since it's a flying ranged unit and it's slow , so it will be on the back of the army.

PS: once again i apologize for my english.