StarCraft II Trilogy makes "Worst **** moves ever pulled by gamers" list

[TheEconomist]

for me was watching soup opera

Mmm'mmm'mm'mm'mmmm

Where can I get some?

[hack59]

well, to be honest, in my opinion the C&C Tiberium series were good and interesting, until EA bought Westwood. After that the game and storyline were kind of...dumb -.-

You know, I used to think that, but then I thought about the history of C&C again. And I'm afraid I'm forced to conclude that the writing of C&C has always been problematic. Heresy, you say? Well, let's see:

1. Westwood make Tiberian Dawn as a matured version of Dune 2, freed from the Herbert franchise. The invention of Tiberium as a replacement McGuffin for the spice spawns a terrific story and a brilliant universe.
2. Initially, Westwood must have had some ideas how to continue after TD, but it's unclear how fleshed out those ideas were. There's little information.
3. TD becomes a smash hit. I'm 100% sure that Westwood was taken by surprise, and in a knee-jerk reaction to take advantage of the situation, they forgo a Tiberian sequel and instead re-release the original C&C, painted red, under the title Red Alert. The reason I'm confident that this wasn't planned is because none of the story makes any sense. In RA1 you get these half-hearted attempts at creating a connection to the Tiberian universe, but neither C&C2 nor RA2 pick up on those. Clearly the idea was abandoned and cannot have been thought up from the start.
4. Time comes for the Tiberian sequel. Gameplay and atmosphere are fantastic. But... what do we get story-wise? Kane is back? Why? Well, we're never told. And what exactly happens in the game? Do we learn anything new? About Tiberium? About humans? Characters? I'm forced to admit that as much as the atmosphere and the visuals are impressive, I can never really put my finger on what actually happens in the story, and why that story had to be told. How can Kane just come back without any mention of the how and why? Or why would he (in the Nod campaign) destroy all life on Earth? Seriously, why? A super villain that only wants to be evil for the sake of it is hardly good writing! At some point you got to tell us.

So you see, when you take it from there, you're really not in a good spot to begin with. Sure, C&C3 hacked up lots of stuff, ruined Tiberium, got the timeline totally wrong (remember that in Firestorm we're told that the atmosphere would be lethally toxic within a year?), and ffs we had to introduce aliens, because really there was nothing else left on Earth that could have possibly made for an interesting story. (Before you object: I mean sentient aliens. I don't mind Tiberium being of extraterrestrial origin.) But setting that aside, having Kane come back from death without any comment isn't EA's invention. Tiberium Wars looks great and has a good atmosphere, and somehow it's hard to see how one could have done the writing any better.

Here's my theory: Lots of pieces of speculative fiction writing simply suffer from one simple, fundamental flaw: They're not thought through. They make sense for one chapter, but the authors never thought about the complete backstory from the start. They simply have no explanations that make sense. When the first chapter is successful and they have to create a sequel, they don't just continue writing what they already had in mind, but rather they have to contrive something that more often than not ends up devaluing the original. Take for example the Matrix movies. First part was great, but there was just no way to go on with it. You can't tell me that the whole thing had been planned in one piece! Most times, I think this is simply because the author gets carried away by something that's so cool and awesome that it makes for a great initial story, but when you think it through it becomes hard to see how that leaves room for anything. (Neo is god, that sort of stops him being interesting.)

I'm conjecturing that the same happened with C&C: Nobody had thought about it. Tiberium served its one and only role as a spice replacement. The story turned out to be great in TD, but there was no depth to it beyond that. That's why C&C2 avoids talking about any sort of facts altogether, and why C&C3 abandons any type of creative effort and pulls out the old alien invasion.

[Wlof]

Mmm'mmm'mm'mm'mmmm

Where can I get some?

Hmmmm...
on Spanish tv channel

@ hack59

I will have to disagree on some of your arguments.
In mine personal opinion I like how they keep Kane in mystery,in that way people can always discuss who or what is he until next game where they will get another bite of his history,attentions and personality....

in TD we saw tiberium and that was focus in next part of game we see more world corrupted by tiberium and mankind struggling with it.
And we see more about the character....Kane,he is protagonist and antagonist of the story.
And also Kane didint want to destroy all life on Earth,he used his "Technology of Peace" to mutate all life on earth,as he said something like this:
"More then alien,more then human,the next step in our evolution as a specie"
And he is not evil just to be evil as I said,in every game we know him better and his plan his motive...

"remember that in Firestorm we're told that the atmosphere would be lethally toxic within a year"

that is explained...
GDI had tacitus in the end of Fire Storm and they crack it and use that data suppress tiberium and os on...
If you remember Westwood planed aliens even in c&c2 i think that is third or fourth mission when you see wreck of "Scrin" ship.

In mine opinion c&c3 have maybe best story because we see more of Kane and more of Nod but I like how c&c2 was dark.

[hack59]

Thanks for your reply, Wlof.

I like how they keep Kane in mystery,in that way people can always discuss who or what is he until next game where they will get another bite of his history,attentions and personality....

in TD we saw tiberium and that was focus in next part of game we see more world corrupted by tiberium and mankind struggling with it.
And we see more about the character....Kane,he is protagonist and antagonist of the story.

Well, we see more of the character, but not really more about him, do we? What is is that we learn about Kane in TS that we didn't already know? Likewise, we don't really see people struggling with Tiberium -- they just sort of live with it, but we never see that they engage with the problem. No ideas are put forward, no environmental experiments, no solutions. In fact, Tiberium hardly gets mentioned at all in TS, just like, say, air doesn't get mentioned in the real world.

I'm glad you were satisfied by TS, but I've always felt it lacking in those areas.

And also Kane didint want to destroy all life on Earth,he used his "Technology of Peace" to mutate all life on earth,as he said something like this: "More then alien,more then human,the next step in our evolution as a specie" And he is not evil just to be evil as I said,in every game we know him better and his plan his motive...

Do we know him better, though? This whole thing about evolution never plays out! I have no idea if he really had something in mind or if he was just deranged, because the game doesn't tell us. Again, I'm happy for you if you think that all these omissions are strokes of genius on part of the authors, but personally I just think it's poor writing, and I think it's because they simply didn't know any better. They really just didn't have an idea how you could possibly explain Kane's return within the serious framework of the universe, so they preferred to not talk about it at all. Solomon's "I don't believe in ghosts" is as much as anyone is ever willing to discuss Kane's apparent immunity from death.

"remember that in Firestorm we're told that the atmosphere would be lethally toxic within a year"

that is explained... GDI had tacitus in the end of Fire Storm and they crack it and use that data suppress tiberium and os on...

Yeah, maybe, I just wish I could have experienced that. Sounds like it could have made for an interesting story, doesn't it?

If you remember Westwood planed aliens even in c&c2 i think that is third or fourth mission when you see wreck of "Scrin" ship.

Yeah yeah I know I know. That doesn't mean that putting aliens in a story isn't the lowest form of non-creativity, though. It's pretty upsetting. This isn't "Life in Kansas", it's Command & Conquer! You'd think that there'd be something worth telling about what's going on on Earth! Again, this is an argument why even Westwood was already struggling with the franchise. Arguably EA didn't invent the idea of aliens. The writers just had no clue how to take the Tiberium idea further without resorting to aliens.

This is doubly upsetting exactly because TD had so much going for it. Watching all those human goings-on was actually interesting. I was never bored by it and wished to see some alien massacre, I actually did care about the humans. Why couldn't we get more of that?

During TD I had always imagined that Tiberium was like some sort of foreign virus thingy. We weren't used to it so it took us by surprise and overwhelmed the planet, but it didn't have any inherent malevolence or purpose. Just think how much more human and relevant that would be: Most of our day-to-day problems do not come from some evil villain's malevolence. Problems simply exist and we have to deal with them. That's what's interesting in a story.

[Wlof]

We see how Kane didn't die and also didn't aged for 30 years but he have scars when he was buried or stricken by Ion cannon (deepens on what ending)
We see how is he very interested in Scrin ship more precise on tacitus and how he know about that and what tacitus contains.
We see that he also wanted to solve problem with tiberium infection with his own way,mutation.

Maybe I cold find some more reasons but as I said in every game we slowly get something about him and his plans,maybe not to much but anything is better then nothing.

Then in TS we see how Nod people are accepted tiberium as their salvation and Kane as their savior as they accepted Technology of Peace.
We see how and Nod accepted and using tiberium for weapons and technology in second and third tuberium war.
In TS we have focus to see how tiberium changed earth with all new kind od Flora and Fauna which is threat on human life.
We see all new kind and faction the Forgotten,mutants that are rejected by peoples because they are like that,we see their struggle.

"Do we know him better, though? This whole thing about evolution never plays out! I have no idea if he really had something in mind or if he was just deranged, because the game doesn't tell us"

It is because GDI campaign was canon and I really dont like that,on storyline GDI stop Kane and his plan and that is just that,no more explanation about that too,I agree that we needed more details.
And as I said Kane is maybe a alien or maybe biblical figure....on that time we dont know and we speculate.

I know what you want to say but in some case tiberium is some kind of parasite not just mineral and it is alien origin and maybe some one think how is that good explanation for aliens
but I support what you say,we needed more details about everything.

[Turalyon]

How did this thread suddenly turn into a C&C lore discussion?

[TheEconomist]

I have no idea, but TC does not object

[Wlof]

How did this thread suddenly turn into a C&C lore discussion?

Sorry,my mistake

[Sarov]

Try to stay on topic guys. Pretty sure that's way off topic.

[Kimera757]

We see how Kane didn't die and also didn't aged for 30 years but he have scars when he was buried or stricken by Ion cannon (deepens on what ending)

And so forth. True, but the additional info was added afterward. (Westwood didn't bother explaining Kane's immortality at first since they never expected a sequel. He was just supposed to die.)

Alas, adding additional info is often seen as a "retcon". (Well, sometimes it is!)