Infestor Musings...

[Eligor]

This is partially a repost and an extrapolation of already posted ideas (previously appearing in the "5 Suggestions to Improve SC 2" thread), partially an attempt to look at the how's and why's of these ideas and Zerg gameplay in general. People have been complaining about the Infestor for quite some time, with Disease and Spawn Infested Terran coming under heavy criticism and much scrutiny, so here's a suggestion of mine for a different couple of abilities to go together with Neural Parasite, thoughts and musings following.

Toxic Creep: the Infestor gains an ability to generate a trail of toxic "creep" while moving underground. The creep would not only cause steady continuous damage (of around 5 HP per second) to the enemy units on it, but would slow the movement of any non hovering vehicles as well. The Toxic Creep would dissipate after 5 minutes or so, it would not affect your troops but will hurt any enemy Zerg.

Notes:

-Toxic creep would be unbuildable, nor would it boost the movement of Zerg units on it.

-Distinguishing between yours and your enemy's toxic creep would be done through a team coloured vein pattern in the creep's texture.

-The Zerg have no other abilities that specifically target Heavy Metal, and this is also a rather appropriate way for the Zerg to hamper the enemy's mobility, Infantry will not suffer from any slowing effect but would be more affected by the damage dealt having overall less HP.

Infest: An ability to temporarily infest Bunkers, Missile Turrets, Spine and Spore Crawlers and Radar Towers, making them unable to attack and detect for a set amount of time (around 45 seconds).

Notes:

-The disruption of detection isn't as useful for the Zerg themselves as for potential Terran or Protoss allies in team games.

-It would fit well with the aggressive and harassing nature of the Zerg, allowing them among other things to more effectively breach Terran defensive perimeters.

-The infestation would be signified by a graphic of writhing tentacles twining around the structure.

-Units inside an infested bunker would not be able to leave as long as the infestation lasts.

-Infestation obviously won't be a channelled ability.

General notes (why these particular abilities):

-The Zerg overall tend to have more "saboteur" type spellcasters than either the Protoss or Terran, in and out quickly and preferably unnoticed, the abilities themselves serve to weaken or hamper the enemy without much brute-force, direct-damage, single blow effects (Spawn Broodling being the only exception) and tend to affect groups of units (Dark Swarm, Plague, Ensnare). The spellcaster itself is always an aid to the army, a tool to augment and be used alongside the hordes of Zerglings and Hydralisks dealing the the main bulk of the damage. Ground control in the widest sense of the word is important, the Zerg are perhaps more than any other race dependent on a shifting and fluid frontline, with blockades and out-thrusts appearing in every conceivable place, often unpredictably (Spine and Spore Crawlers have a good reason to be mobile), thus an ability like toxic creep would prove very handy, not only in quickly and spontaneously hampering the advance of the enemy but in shepherding them exactly where you'd want them to be, helping shape a malleable line of defense. Infest on the other hand will help Zerg breach defensive lines, something they need much more than did the Protoss in BW with Disruption Web, thus the Infestor becomes a crucial unit in controlling frontlines. Furthermore, both Toxic Creep and Infest would play to the Infestor's strength of moving while burrowed, allowing the player to sneak upon enemy defenses and perhaps do such things as lay a patch of toxic creep right across the enemy's economy line, so versatility is inherent. And finally, these seem to me like fun and interesting abilities to use.

[Blazur]

Decent ideas. But really anything is an improvement over the current Infestor abilities.

[Eligor]

Decent ideas. But really anything is an improvement over the current Infestor abilities.

This is not only an attempt at the improvement of abilities per se but also at giving some direction (and a more defined niche in the techtree) to the Infestor, which at the moment is probably one of the more muddled units in the game (MUCH more so than the Thor for example). The abilities themselves obviously already appeared in the game in one way or another, but this seems to me at the moment the ideal way to implement them.

[n00bonicPlague]

The idea of a "building lockdown" (your "Infest" idea) intrigues me and sounds much more fun than the Defiler's Plague; although, I'd rather see it usable on all buildings of all races, not just the few you listed. It would be particularly devastating against the protoss, as all you would have to do is strike a few pylons and a good bit of their base would be shut down. Fortunately, however, it wouldn't be too powerful, because all the protoss would have to do is bring in a few Warp Prisms to temporarily re-power their buildings.

Your "Toxic Creep" idea sounds fun, but I would make some changes:

• cover a medium/large area (radius of 6?)
• dissipate quickly when off or out of range (10 seconds?)

Basically, instead of attempting to make a trail, just make a large carpet of the stuff, which dissipates if the Infestor moves or turns it off. It could still do it underground, and the ability would work like the ghost's cloak in that it spends about 1 EP per second and that movement does not deactivate it. Also, when first activated, it would need to slowly spread out and not instantly cover the area.

This ability would be pretty fun, offensively and defensively. Just plant one or more Infestors at a chokepoint and turn the ability on and boom -- simple and effective area denial. If multiple Infestors are close enough to where their creeps touch, then the creep should spread faster, but it should not stack.

[Blazur]

This is not only an attempt at the improvement of abilities per se but also at giving some direction (and a more defined niche in the techtree) to the Infestor, which at the moment is probably one of the more muddled units in the game (MUCH more so than the Thor for example). The abilities themselves obviously already appeared in the game in one way or another, but this seems to me at the moment the ideal way to implement them.

Might be worth reviving this thread as well which is a brainstorming of alternative abilities for the unit.

http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235

[Eligor]

The idea of a "building lockdown" (your "Infest" idea) intrigues me and sounds much more fun than the Defiler's Plague; although, I'd rather see it usable on all buildings of all races, not just the few you listed. It would be particularly devastating against the protoss, as all you would have to do is strike a few pylons and a good bit of their base would be shut down. Fortunately, however, it wouldn't be too powerful, because all the protoss would have to do is bring in a few Warp Prisms to temporarily re-power their buildings.

Your "Toxic Creep" idea sounds fun, but I would make some changes:

• cover a medium/large area (radius of 6?)
• dissipate quickly when off or out of range (10 seconds?)

Basically, instead of attempting to make a trail, just make a large carpet of the stuff, which dissipates if the Infestor moves or turns it off. It could still do it underground, and the ability would work like the ghost's cloak in that it spends about 1 EP per second and that movement does not deactivate it. Also, when first activated, it would need to slowly spread out and not instantly cover the area.

This ability would be pretty fun, offensively and defensively. Just plant one or more Infestors at a chokepoint and turn the ability on and boom -- simple and effective area denial. If multiple Infestors are close enough to where their creeps touch, then the creep should spread faster, but it should not stack.

I think that the ability to incapacitate production buildings would be too much, as well as more annoying than fun (less about strategy more about just limiting the other player's actions). Not sure about Pylons, they're a weakness of the Protoss as it is.

As for toxic creep, I'd like to have as much freedom as possible in creating any pattern I may think of (if only for a whim's sake), thus a trail. And since the ability is supposed to be defensive as much as offensive I do believe it should stay around for a while even with no enemy in sight. Multiple Infestors should indeed be able to spread it faster though.

Might be worth reviving this thread as well which is a brainstorming of alternative abilities for the unit.

http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235

Merging them sounds like a good idea.

[SanKakU]

the idea with infest is kindof alright i guess....but zerg already got super guardians and ultralisks in sc2...plus lurkers are more anti tank than before...so i don't think what you said about zerg needed defense breaks is so true...certainly lower tier units i suppose might be lacking in that department though, yes that may be true.

but this other idea...the creep from the infestor...it seems like fun, but a really bad idea. it just makes it too obvious to the opponent, "hey look, i have infestors, get detection to kill them!"

well, if it were like the creep isn't visible unless you have the detectors, then that might be ok...

[Eligor]

but this other idea...the creep from the infestor...it seems like fun, but a really bad idea. it just makes it too obvious to the opponent, "hey look, i have infestors, get detection to kill them!"

So does using Ghosts, or Dark Templar or Banshees.

well, if it were like the creep isn't visible unless you have the detectors, then that might be ok...

The whole idea behind the toxic creep is that it's visible and presents the enemy with the dilemma of either having to cross a patch of terrain that can seriously damage his units (not to mention slowing the progress of vehicles and walkers), or seek an alternate route.

[Triceron]

I like the idea, it's a well-themed ability for the infestor. I like how it slows in an area of effect on the ground, making the opponent require detection to prevent being 'ensnared' by toxic creep. This really helps the zerg get a good surround with their mobility advantage.

However I think gameplay-wise, requiring a burrowed infestor near the enemy is too much of a downside when you compare it to abilities like psi-storm (instant cast, ranged, deals lots of damage fast) and the old plague (fire and forget, ranged, does a ton of damage). Against an opponent with detection available, this ability would be almost worthless against the very situations you want to use it against. An overseer watching over an army of lings and hydras wouldn't fear Toxic Creep at all, nor would a force of M&M with a Raven around.

This can't really compare to say Dark Templar because the infestor's main use is its abilities, whereas a Dark Templar, even if detected, has uses other than attacking the enemy army head on. Toxic Creep looks to counter masses of ground troops, and that'd be hard if the infestor is required to get in close range, even if burrowed. Who knows, this might be a good risk-reward ability.

Toxic Creep looks like it'd be a fun ability to use on enemy worker lines, slowing them down while damaging them all.

[RamiZ]

Both Ideas are good, but as Tricerion said, Infestor is a caster. He should be hidden, or in the back of the army. He is support unit, and Toxic Creep is support ability but you shouldnt charge on enemy with your infestors, that is the main reason why they can move while burrowed, to be hidden. Toxic Creep sounds cool idea, and I would like it more if it can be casted like old plague/Ensnare/Psi Storm, on target ground. Then it would be really useful ability with combination of Plague and Ensnare.