Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
What does the Psi Index measure, anyways? If it's raw power, i don't think a Ghost can be near a Zealot on it. The Zealot's blades and Shield are powered by the Protoss inside it. Protoss pilots also power their own ships.
If it's some kind of measure of the abilities he can "cast", then it could be. Zealots are just starting their psionic ascension, and it seems logical that such a longevous species won't haste training that much. Probably they reach adulthood later.
It would be very good, however, if Blizzard first settled the basic lore, before giving it to the writers, as that would make things run much smoother. In sc-fi you cannot fix things by saying that "a wizard did it", after all :D.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
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Originally Posted by
Norfindel
What does the Psi Index measure, anyways? If it's raw power, i don't think a Ghost can be near a Zealot on it. The Zealot's blades and Shield are powered by the Protoss inside it. Protoss pilots also power their own ships.
No they aren't, not entirely. All protoss tech is powered by both the protoss inside and the psionic matrix. Breaking that matrix (eg smashing all the pylons) should (in lore) power down some tech to some extent.
As for shields, that is definitely wrong. It explicitly said that very few protoss could create shields on their own, hence the shield generators.
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If it's some kind of measure of the abilities he can "cast", then it could be. Zealots are just starting their psionic ascension, and it seems logical that such a longevous species won't haste training that much. Probably they reach adulthood later.
Zealots are full grown. Artanis, at 262, is a young adult. Fenix was nearly 400 and still a zealot. That's just ... making stuff up.
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It would be very good, however, if Blizzard first settled the basic lore, before giving it to the writers, as that would make things run much smoother. In sc-fi you cannot fix things by saying that "a wizard did it", after all :D.
Sci-fi settings are always harder to write, and StarCraft has very little lore.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
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Sci-fi settings are always harder to write, and StarCraft has very little lore.
Not too bad though, considering it started out as a 1998 RTS game.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
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Originally Posted by
Kimera757
Um... what?
I thought I read something somewhere about Ghosts being able to pick up Protoss orders (but I probably didn't). Not sure how much clearer I could have made that.
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Queen of Blades is a crappy source.
Blizzard said that basically everything they release is canonical, so as far as I'm concerned it's as good a source as any other book.
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First of all, Infested Kerrigan was a stronger psychic than Sarah Kerrigan, even before she broke the ghost conditioning....
Pre-infested Kerrigan was never that powerful
What does that have to do with my post? I never implied or said anything of the like.
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Second of all, in that book, Raynor is capable of deciding entire battles by shooting a scourge....
He shot an Overlord, not a Scourge. The Overlord then crushed an entire row of Scourge between itself and another Overlord.
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Nowhere does it say that psi-blades have a minimum PI rating (though they probably do).
Of course they do. You can't expect a non-psychic to channel psi-blades. Sure, there's a slim chance that there might not be a relationship between the two but since we know that Psi Blades are created by channeling psionic energy, we have to assume there's some kind of a direct relationship between PI and the ability to channel Psi Blades. It's really the only obvious conclusion at the moment.
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Originally Posted by
Norfindel
What does the Psi Index measure, anyways?
"Psionic ability"
I take that to be raw power (without the use of tech ofc).
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Originally Posted by
Norfindel
If it's some kind of measure of the abilities he can "cast", then it could be. Zealots are just starting their psionic ascension, and it seems logical that such a longevous species won't haste training that much. Probably they reach adulthood later.
Though the SC manual defines Zealots as "warriors who have yet to reach the upper levels of the Khala," that doesn't mean that all Zealots will eventually reach the upper levels of the Khala.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
I wonder why the Protoss don't have a Ghost equivolent themselves (besides the Dark Templar, who aren't really like Ghosts because that's just the way they are).
High Templar can hover like we can walk, pretty sure they can make some pretty killer assassins.
Is it an honour thing? Pride? They see it as dirty and underhanded?
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
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Originally Posted by
Gradius
I thought I read something somewhere about Ghosts being able to pick up Protoss orders (but I probably didn't). Not sure how much clearer I could have made that.
In New Gettysburg, Kerrigan implied something like this. However, she's an exceptional ghost.
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Blizzard said that basically everything they release is canonical, so as far as I'm concerned it's as good a source as any other book.
In any event, Kerrigan was only doing that kind of stuff post-infestation.
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He shot an Overlord, not a Scourge. The Overlord then crushed an entire row of Scourge between itself and another Overlord.
Still crazy impossible.
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
I wonder why the Protoss don't have a Ghost equivolent themselves (besides the Dark Templar, who aren't really like Ghosts because that's just the way they are).
The protoss didn't bother learning to cloak, in part because they were always connected to the Khala, so it wasn't as effective. Dark Templar, who aren't connected to the Khala, the Tal'darim (same) and the protoss from the Aeon of Strife could do this this (in the latter case, they had to hide behind bushes and stuff, but could still hide their thoughts).
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
Well, this phrase don't even talks about Zealots, they compare Ghosts with a generic Protoss, directly:
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Originally Posted by Shadow Hunters
And from all accounts, even the most gifted, most finely trained human telepaths were pitiful compared to an ordinary, run-of-the-mill protoss.
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Originally Posted by
Kimera757
No they aren't, not entirely. All protoss tech is powered by both the protoss inside and the psionic matrix. Breaking that matrix (eg smashing all the pylons) should (in lore) power down some tech to some extent.
That's true, they receive energy from the psi matrix, but the don't need to be within Pylon range to work. I think they receive the energy directly to their suits, and the Pylons power the buildings, which require lots more energy.
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Originally Posted by
Kimera757
As for shields, that is definitely wrong. It explicitly said that very few protoss could create shields on their own, hence the shield generators.
However, the suits aids the Zealots to form the Blades and Shield. The suits don't just create everything by themselves:
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Originally Posted by battle.net/scc
The power suits worn by Zealots enhance and channel their already formidable Psionic abilities, allowing them to form a protective shield around themselves and project massive energy blades from their forearms.
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Originally Posted by
Kimera757
Zealots are full grown. Artanis, at 262, is a young adult. Fenix was nearly 400 and still a zealot. That's just ... making stuff up.
Of course they are, but they are just starting the path of Khala. I said it, because it would made sense for them to not have learned a lot of tricks, yet.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
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As for shields, that is definitely wrong. It explicitly said that very few protoss could create shields on their own, hence the shield generators.
The only lore I remember concerning this topic is from the StarCraft manual, where it is stated that warriors replicated the feat in psi-induced automatons. However, I cannot remember the exact context. It may be that very few Protoss knew how to channel their energy into a protective barrier and simply need to be taught; though it is clear the psionic matrix and psi-induced technology help.
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I thought I read something somewhere about Ghosts being able to pick up Protoss orders (but I probably didn't).
What Kimera said. Kerrigan implied she could. Despite being an "exceptional Ghost", however, she still couldn't quite understand how she knew.
Other Ghosts likely could detect a similar "flavor" in the psychic messages floating between Protoss, at least picking up on the animosity and hostile intent.
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Nowhere does it say that psi-blades have a minimum PI rating (though they probably do).
This is true. However, there is likely a minimum level. We don't know how the Psi Index works, but it likely takes several different factors into consideration, including raw psionic potential. Ghost minimum requirements start at PI 5; Gestalt Zero manifested blades at PI 7. That provides a rough range for ya.
Re: What is it about Ghosts that actually let them stand a chance against the Toss?
It was mentioned before about how infested Kerrigan is far stronger than Sarah Kerrigan. It made me think about the mental conditioning of ghosts and their neural inhibitors.
Most, if not all, of the Terran ghosts that you're taking into account in this discussion are being held back from their full power by inhibitors. When Nova had her outburst that killed so many people, that was a reflection of her true potential. I believe:
Normal human < Khalai Protoss < Zealots < avg. Ghosts < HT/DT/powerful Ghosts
I think that the most powerful of ghosts, those reaching PI 10 have as much power as High or Dark Templar. However, because the Terrans have still yet to evolve, even average ghosts are incapable of controlling their power without inhibitors, like the Protoss are able to. Although the ghosts are held back from their full power, I still think they have as much potential as Zealots or the higher Templar warriors.
