I hated that Map in WC3... :p
But, it looks like it would be fun in SC2.
Printable View
I hated that Map in WC3... :p
But, it looks like it would be fun in SC2.
Fungal not working on Mutas, Phoenix, Banshees, and Vikings is one of the single stupidest and most crippling nerfs to Zerg I could have ever dreamed of. This change will DESTROY ZvZ and ZvP.
yeah, i have this feeling, and some posters supporting it, that P air has just kind of gone underused for a long time for no particular reason. these changes will poularize it and revamp the ZvP MU to a great extent. probably in P's favour.
Anyone notice the new art changes to blink and burrow for roach and a few other things?
For example, gateway crystal now doesn't disappear when you cancel, it slowly grows.
Lots of tiny polish put in.
Also new graphic for burrow icon.
Flight dynamics have also been changed, units are now way more responsive in 90degree turns. Banshee almost hovers sideways when you're microing against drones.
Why did it take them roughly 5+ months to make these chat channels? If anything this is barebones at best. I'm thoroughly surprised how slim the features are thus far for SC2. We JUST get chat channels which are pathetic, and we STILL don't have clan features. And I will add that both of these were present in WC3 at launch. Typical shit.
Most of Blizzard devs are obviously working on WoW with limited developers for starcraft 2 since it isn't exactly a cash cow.
I think the problem is that developers now cost a hell of a lot more money and anyhting that isn't giving a lot of money back is put on the back burner. So Starcraft 2 gets slowly developed over a long period, vs WoW that gets patch notes bigger than expansion sets themselves.
Creep spreads evenly in all directions.
This is the single greatest patch since release. If this patch does not restore your faith in Blizzard as a company, go play some CoD.
No, I don't think bunkers should build faster, no I don't think fungal shouldn't affect air units too, and I will miss the days of key repeating, but I think we can all agree that this is a simply magnificent patch. Chat channels, the awaited pro league, Void Ray buffs versus Massive, hallucination research decreased, cheaper observers, SCVs share targeting priority, ultralisk splash changed, phoenix buff, even creep spreading to avoid positional imbalances in ZvZ, and to top it all off, they introduced stalemate detection. Holy crap!
Blizzard listens.
Probably? Phoenii are going to be a nightmare...Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
You're right. I'm complaining about the fungal change but I should say it again in this thread (because I've said it a few times elsewhere): this patch has tons of awesooome content.Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletBen
Would anyone agree with me that the reason they're not buffing Carriers and not allowing more than one Mothership is a sneaky way to reduce lag for people with mediocre pcs?
I just see no reason why not try to diversify unit use and hence allow for more diverse and fun builds.
Yes yes. We're all excited Blizzard finally got around to including features that should have been in since day 1, on a project with a deadline they claimed "would only be done when it's done." Bravo.Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletBen
What are you talking about? Carriers do not need a buff. If you can tech to them and produce enough without getting owned (which was hard in SC1 too mind you), then you will roll over most armies.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianSpy27
However, carriers, like BCs and many other late game units are not used as often as SC1 because as Blizzard has said at one point (Can't remember where but I know they covered it), games in SC2 just don't last as long as games in SC1. Not to mention, there's way too many new tier 2.5 units that fulfill their roles much more easily and effectively.
Why make battlecruisers when you can tech and produce thors much more quickly? Why make carriers when you can tech and produce collosi, immortals, and void rays much more quickly? All tier 3 zerg units are used because they received no new units to fill this role, and they don't require mass production facilities to switch to them.
I think you're living in the past if you want to see carriers, battlecruisers, and motherships (i.e. Arbiters) used often in SC2. That's just not guna happen unless there's some major changes to gameplay and build orders in the future that are currently being overlooked.
However, I do agree that the "only one mothership at a time" rule is seemingly dumb. I don't think it would be OP to allow more than one, but then again maybe they tested it and it was.
If you think about it for just a second, you would know that more than one Mothership would be overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber Wookie
Have you ever faced 10 carriers with an MS and 2 dozen plus stalkers? Not even the vaunted bio ball can stand long against this, especially with an upgrade situation favoring the aggressor. While I would like an MS with more solo play versatility, I can't really complain too much about its current state as a support unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianSpy27
I commented on fungal growth in another thread and will refrain from commenting too much here. All in all, a decent patch, but not perfect.
Someone commented on nailing 2 flies with one go and asked why blizz can't do this. 2 birds with one stone would be nice where applicable. Others have commented that some instances dictate one or the other, and Blizz has given us both. Could we call this trying to nail 2 stones with one bird? poor bird never new what hit him.
well, creating that kind of army is definitely costly and requires a long time to be effective...Quote:
Originally Posted by flak4321
that's not a kind of unit composition you can get straight away and also requires multiple bases...
i'm not trying to argue.. but if this somehow would get ''countered'' or repelled by a simple bio-ball...eh, then there would be something terrible wrong with the bio force... i'm not saying i fully support a buff to Protoss air but a nerf, i'll say, is not a sollution...
I hear you. I understand that people can opt to make colosi and thors instead of carriers and BCs. I'm not contending that it's the fact. I am contending, however, that we don't have a patch allowing people more ease/incentive in creating capital ships.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber Wookie
For example, reduce carrier B.time from 120 to 100 and/or make it 4 armor or reduce its price or have it start with 8 interceptors and with the upgraded carrier launch speed right away and I don't see why this unique, heavily armored, AA/AG unit that with good micro can have 14 range wouldn't be used.
Would it make pros suddenly yell and switch to carriers? Probably not, but it will allow for greater versatility and options that wouldn't hurt in this strategy game.
They musta been reading this thread. :)
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1306100875
the itnernet is bigger than that.
Todie - I see your batman cat, and I raise you, Joker cat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2kjisMm3M9...+joker+cat.jpg
Wehere is chat channulz? WHERE IS TEHY?!! *cat-punches joker-cat
can i haz?!
Is there a current SCL chat channel up cuz I haven't been able to find one?
I'll admit this army comp does take some bases and time. I've been on both sides of this, and have to admit that, as the losing side, you have to be a real turtle among turtles to let this happen more than once a game. I also admit to seeing it much more often in team games than 1v1s, but it is not out of the question in a good 3 base v 3 base plus match-up. Facing a sizeable group of carriers can be fun and arduous (focus-firing necessary).Quote:
Originally Posted by senervo
I'm actually in favor of maintaining the status quo, if any sizable changes would turn into too much. I'd wouldn't mind a minor change to the marauder/concussive shells, as the ability makes them really tough, but as Todie has said elsewhere, nothing spectacular is going to happen.
Btw, Blizzard made statement that they have reverted changes for Fungal Growth and Bunkers from this patch. Everything is fine now... :p
Teamliquid is reporting that a new version of the PTR is up. I didn't see anything when I started up StarCraft II though (no offer to download anything, that is).
I heard. I'm really glad they listened to community feedback and responded promptly. Good job on that one Blizz. Also, I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I still think they need to reduce the 100% salvage from bunker to 50 or 75%. It seems unfair that terran can just construct these incredibly effective defense buildings without any repercussions, especially when they bunker crawl into a contain. There should be some penalty to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
I keep saying that from the first day of Beta... It is so retarded that Terran can turtle up with so many Bunkers that you can't even break, and ofcourse salvage them like nothing happened. 75% or 50% would be just enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber Wookie
Tested out the new patch, and so far, I am liking the change for Phoenix build time. I tried the exact same build on Patch 1.1.3 and I failed to cut muta numbers down because I couldnt make the damn Phoenixes fast enough.
Also, I love what they did with the repair priority for being targeted :D FUCK Thor rush abusers. I mean even DT wasn't even able to dent that when the Terran pushed. Now, the balance of things is back to normal where DT rape Thors reasonably fast if they don't have support.
Another thing I'd like to report is that probes no longer tilt when moving. They now rotate like SCVs and drones. Small change.
What i like about this patch is that observer cost decrease, it will be a lot more easy to get them earlier. On the side note, i think force field need a nerf. Maybe they can give force field 800 hp , which you can destroy. I can help protoss to hold on to early rushes yet it won't be op in mid-late game.
Indeed, Protoss needed more of an scouting Mechanics, or should I say, better way to scout. Decreasing Observer's cost and Hallucination's research time will help that a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by dusthoof
Also, I agree, and I was saying that from the Beta(just like for the Salvage, LOL!), Force Fields need nerf. 75 Energy Cost, or they could have shorter life-span, whatever, there are plenty of ways of nerfing them. It is so funny when commentators screams "Wow great Force Fields" and all that Protoss did was spamming them all over the place and end up winning.
Does anybody else feel that the Phoenix build time decrease was a bit excessive? I think -5 seconds is fair enough. I do like the decreased obs cost and repair attack priority. Not sure how I feel about the VR buff as I think 20% increase is a lot. Maybe 10-15% is better to start off with. I dont care too much for the flux vanes upgrades as Ive never used it in 1v1. Only in team games where Ive massed VRs have I found the upgrade paying for itself but I dont take team games seriously.
Perhaps a little excessive, but all my matches in the PTR that I used Phoenix never seemed to be imba because of the Phoenix numbers. They still get raped by Hydra, Marine, Corruptors and well controlled Viking Squads. They are really only useful for killing Muta, Banshee, worker harass and for picking off stray Medivacs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
Muta could easily out produce Phoenix and kill them by sheer weight of numbers. And Banshees can cloak and laugh at Phoenix while they proceed to kill worker lines. The reduction allows you to pump enough Phoenix quickly to deal with swarms of Mutalisk and early enough to deal with cloak-less Banshee. Is it too much of a reduction? Maybe, but even now they still don't seem THAT bad, although you do get them in pretty significant numbers.
Lvl 1 Charge: 6 +4 vs ArmoredQuote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
Lvl 2 Charge: 8 +8 vs Armored
with a 20% boost it makes it:
Lvl 1 Charge: 7 +5 vs Armored
Lvl 2 Charge: 9.6 +10 vs Armored
Basically, even with a 20% boost, its no more then +2 damage each damage cycle. Barely any difference at all. The reason why Flux Vanes aren't seen very much, is because Void Rays themselves aren't used very much. Outside of rushes, they generally aren't part of any major Toss match up. Removing Flux Vanes is more of a preventative measure, then anything else, since it deals with human psychology.
When Roaches had 3 range, they were hardly ever used, maybe mixed into an army, but after the beta they really weren't used as a mainstay in the army. Roaches get buffed to 4 range, suddenly Zerg is doing nothing but going mass Roach and is pushing Toss around and giving Terran a lot of headaches. 1 range didn't really change much. Roaches still could have done pretty much the same thing with 3 range. It's simply the mental aspect of "oh this unit got a buff, let me try it out", then they like it and start using it all the time...
Having Void Rays do MORE damage will make people want to use them in much broader terms then they did before. Thus there is more of a chance to get Flux Vanes. And large amounts of Void Rays with Flux Vanes are REALLY hard to deal with, unless you have Mass Vikings or Hydra. Flux Vane's removal was more of a way to prevent Void Rays from once again being broken later down the road then anything else...
I personally feel that this is not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper
There are two things that limit the time that a pheonix can be made. One is the build time, the other is the resources. On a single base, no matter what the build time of the pheonix is, about 2 can be built a minute. The only MAJOR change is that pheonix can now be more easily created on one stargate and if you have a stockpile of gas, you can more easily react to an opponent's tech switch, such as mutalisk.