Variation in Units

Females?
I don't see why not.

Why not? It'd be nice to see virtually every unit have variations after each production, like some randomizing element that is purely cosmetic and doesn't hurt the gameplay.

Age of Empires II had this element for their villagers. Albeit women practically only appeared as Villagers in that game on multiplayer.

I'd like to see Black female Banshees, white male Scottish dropships(although they already exist in one way), Indian male SCVs, Black female Marauders, etc.

Prison don't discriminate.

And why stop there? Why not male and female Protoss units? Selendis is a pretty good Carrier.

Female Dark Templar? Female Furinax Zealot? Male Sargas Phoenix?
Help me if I'm wrong, are the Protoss tribes different in appearance?

I don't think it's a bad thing to add, assuming that it doesn't affect game mechanics.

Besides, if the story involves the potential destruction/assimilation of all three races, shouldn't there be a combined effort, universally, to overcome this threat? Kerrigan can't do it by herself.


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EDIT: If you don't like the idea, how about the game has an option to have varying or non-varying units? So that if you like this idea you can play with this setting, and if you don't, you can play with non-varying units.

It would be nice if it could be done so that this addition does not adversely affect anyone who does or doesn't like it.
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I realize after searching female units that this kind of thing got people riled up at one point and then they started not caring anymore. I just hope that it doesn't happen here and there is some thoughtful discussion.

To make my point clear - I think it would be nice, but I know it's not necessary.
So if you're going to troll be my guest, just know you're wasting your time.

I want to keep my women sweet, beautiful, and out of combat making life less gruesome as it is.

Seriously, in a game it's about character, imo. Let the real girls decide. Tom-boys can join in anytime, but keep the Thatcher cute. I love the Thatcher.

Iconic units are more memorable.

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Originally Posted by Wankey

Iconic units are more memorable.

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Why not make the variation iconic? While I admit certain units are more interesting being simply male or female, plenty of other units would be interesting to see mixed. This could become a Blizzard way of doing things. Imagine the option to choose your sex in Diablo 3 for all classes. The mind boggles!

Protoss seem to share the same characteristics, but Shakuras and Aiur protoss are different due to their lifestyles. Protoss tribes also have different traditions and cultures. A good example out there is the Zer'atai and the Lenassa tribe from the Dark Templars.

I was actually a little disappointed that there were no other units that varied, apart from the Dark Templar. I realize this would probably take time and effort to do, but it would be incredibly cool.

Maybe they could add variations just for the more basic units. Like have a few different models for Zealots, Stalkers, Marines, Marauders, Reapers, Zerglings, Roaches and Hydralisks. Hell, there are already a bajillion portraits for Marines, why not make a few for the other basic units?

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Originally Posted by The_Blade

Protoss seem to share the same characteristics, but Shakuras and Aiur protoss are different due to their lifestyles. Protoss tribes also have different traditions and cultures. A good example out there is the Zer'atai and the Lenassa tribe from the Dark Templars.

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Ah right, of course!

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Originally Posted by Wankey

Iconic units are more memorable.

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I agree, but what about iconic classes in general? You can usually tell unit classes apart from their garb, quotes and obvious function, no?

A big Scandinavian woman driving the Thor would be pretty iconic imho.

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Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk

I want to keep my women sweet, beautiful, and out of combat making life less gruesome as it is.

Seriously, in a game it's about character, imo. Let the real girls decide. Tom-boys can join in anytime, but keep the Thatcher cute. I love the Thatcher.

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Thatcher?

The less there are the more iconic it is. Diablo and WoW are role playing games so those are bad examples.

Starcraft has to be easily readable and each unit has to have character. Adding genders will only dilute that character.

Imagine if there was a choice of male and female versions of every character in starcraft, would anyone even remember Kerrigan as a guy or a girl?

Characters are what they are, and genders define them. Each unit in Starcraft ins't just a unit or a role, it's an character and that's why SC does so well compared to other RTSes where each unit is just a role.

I remember back in Alpha when blizzard was trying to decide weather to use the Zer'atai or the Lenassa. People then thought it would be a good idea to use both, but also include a Male/ Female version of Ghosts for Terran. Makes sense IMO.

Also fairly feasible, they already have that cool looking Nova model. They could even completely cop out and just throw that in with a small code string that gives a 50% spawn rate upon Ghost creation. Same as they did with DT models. They already have a cool model, it would take an hour... two at the most for a single programmer to put such a thing into action. The only actual work they would have to do is get a female voice actor to read all the ghost lines.

Which would take... maybe a day... two tops? IDK, if they were so willing to put in different random DT's but leave out random different Ghosts... feels kinda silly to me...

I don't really think male/female versions should be made for ALL or even MOST of the Terran/Protoss units. As Wankey said, recognizably is the key, having marines that look different would be strange to look at. But units that are highly specialized and you don't see in large numbers, like DT and Ghosts, would be kinda nice IMO. Especially since the Ghost archetype itself has the largest variety of strong female characters compared to any other role in the Terran army, they would be the shoe in for the male/female model split, if one should occur.

Considering the concept art they showed for HoTS with jungle adapted zerg maybe they're considering introducing some variation in the models. Probably not the portraits or voices. Same like they did with the DT. Maybe we can get some variation in the models but it seems to be the extent that Blizzard is willing to take it. More voices and portraits that are randomised seems to be something they are reluctant to do. I'd be happy for some small cosmetic variations in units.

I support the idea of randomly train male and female ghosts, like the DTs have different tribes

I'm 100% sure Blizzard isn't introducing unit variations. They'll probably add additions to units to show off their research but that's as far as it is going to be.

SC has never been about useless variations that don't affect gameplay. All comestic variations in SC are meant for something. Wings mean speedlings, spikes on roaches mean they can now burrow and regen faster. Yamato showing up means BCs can now use yamato.

I would like it more if they did that for every unit for example, Thor doesn't get guns until you research them or their guns aren't fully installed or on (lights are off or something)

It seems to me the design idea behind the comestic additions are basically for unit movement changes, unit health increases and unit ability toggle changes. I think they'll be adding a lot of new models to each model for the various abilities that might show up. I'm expecting this for HotS.

I don't think the DT design choice was a very good one. They should've stuck with one DT choice and not two. The whole design by community always produces poor decisions and I feel the whole Templar thing was just dumb. They should've simply made a really great scythe dt model and used that only.

At the OP, you came across as really sarcastic. I agree with you, however.

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Originally Posted by Articorse

I was actually a little disappointed that there were no other units that varied, apart from the Dark Templar. I realize this would probably take time and effort to do, but it would be incredibly cool.

Maybe they could add variations just for the more basic units. Like have a few different models for Zealots, Stalkers, Marines, Marauders, Reapers, Zerglings, Roaches and Hydralisks. Hell, there are already a bajillion portraits for Marines, why not make a few for the other basic units?

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There are different models for some units. The goliath sticks out in my mind; I've seen at least three different models in the campaign, in the same mission.

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Originally Posted by Keeganomical

Why not make the variation iconic? While I admit certain units are more interesting being simply male or female, plenty of other units would be interesting to see mixed. This could become a Blizzard way of doing things. Imagine the option to choose your sex in Diablo 3 for all classes. The mind boggles!

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If I recall correctly, you can pick your sex in D3.

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Originally Posted by Muspelli

There are different models for some units. The goliath sticks out in my mind; I've seen at least three different models in the campaign, in the same mission.

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What would a female goliath look like? They are in mechs.

There are already female units in the game... so why do you need a variation for each unit and how would you show that variation? Also, looking at just the units... how exactly would a female unit work in many cases? Look at how bulky and strong simple marines are, and they are all criminals arent they? Can you imagine a bulky/strong female convict in a marine suit?

In almost all cases it just seems off both appearance wise and lore wise.

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Originally Posted by Wankey

I don't think the DT design choice was a very good one. They should've stuck with one DT choice and not two. The whole design by community always produces poor decisions and I feel the whole Templar thing was just dumb. They should've simply made a really great scythe dt model and used that only.

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While I agree with most of what you said, I don't do with this.

I think having male/female ghosts like Lenassa/Zerathai Dark templars is bad at all.
Having an exception once in a while isn't bad.

About the winged zerglings... do you think that model was going to be a cliff jumping zergling or something and they just backed off to keep races different and that thing's sake?

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Originally Posted by Josue

About the winged zerglings... do you think that model was going to be a cliff jumping zergling or something and they just backed off to keep races different and that thing's sake?

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I think the whole notion of cliff jumping lings was a fan made speculation because the lings had wings. Anyway... could you imagine lings being able to jump cliffs like reapers? Pretty effing broken no matter how you slice it, I don't think its something that even crossed blizzards mind.

IMO the lings were designed to have the wings always, but there was a vocal minority that were upset with it. So they changed it slightly so that only speedlings have them. Makes sense, and gives you a nice visual que about what tech an opponent is going, just by looking at them.

Variable unit portraits? Yes.

Variable unit models? NO.

I have to agree with DSquid on this one. Even if variation ideas sound good they are not always the best for gameplay. For instance a great idea in the past was to add a skin pattern to zerg units as a decal. Sadly It would affect gameplay dramatically.

I think variation should exist in small, cosmetic differences, and nothing beyond that. The standard portraits and VA are critical IMHO, to making a unit memorable. I don't even know how stoked I am on the "some dts have swords, some have scythes - ain't it cool?" thing. Variation...I can do without. Give me more time spent on one model that is easily identifiable, not several models and portraits that might confuse inexperienced players. Or me.

I think there are no female marines. I doubt female convicts are sent away as male convicts are. They could be sent to do other industry work and not military.

Though, it would be interesting in a campaign. Male and Female versions of certain units I mean in terms of portrait and voice. Most Terran units are in suits, mech, or ships anyway aside from campaign civilians.

i dont like the whole variation in units just as much as i dont like the idea of female units, if i recall girl were happy that in warcraft 3 there was a race basically made entirely of females, but as soon as the dryad showed her face they were saying its offensive how much of a girly girl she was ? now a female marine ? anyone remember the film Aliens, that female marine did my head in so much i have to mute it when she talks, imagine the backlash when they announce its a chunky girl marine, some idiots will start complaining that shes just to masculine, then the argument will be back at square 1.

There are most assuredly canon female marines in the novels.

How about being able to choose between varying and non-varying units in the Options menu? So that those who like the idea can play with it, and those that don't like the idea don't have to.

For example, it comes up when you download the next patch. Or when the expansions come?

I'm fine with the way it is, but if I was a developer of my own game like this I would try it.

Why did this thread devolve from 'How about variations in units?' to 'How about male and female versions of units?'.

I guess changing the gender is one way of adding variation, but it's hardly the only one.

And where are all these strong opinions of whether female units should be good looking or ugly coming from? If they add females, I definitely don't want all of them looking like supermodels and speaking in a Jessica Rabbit voice, that would be idiotic. Yeah, good looking women are nice to look at, but frankly, I prefer realism to eye candy. If there are indeed female versions of units, I'd have them be varied. Some can be fat and ugly, others can be cute, and yes, some can be sultry and seductive.

I really doubt a noticable amount of people would complain if they make the units varied. Hell, I doubt our female forum-mates find all the male units attractive. Probably not even most of them.

Yeah I remember that female marine in a manga or something. It didn't have much of an appeal.

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Originally Posted by Articorse

Why did this thread devolve from 'How about variations in units?' to 'How about male and female versions of units?'.

I guess changing the gender is one way of adding variation, but it's hardly the only one.

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I agree with the whole post.

Mind you I'm keeping to the "varying or non-varying units", not "male or female". I think many are trying not to degenerate it though.

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Originally Posted by Articorse

. . . Hell, I doubt our female forum-mates find all the male units attractive. Probably not even most of them.

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They aren't, quite frankly.

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Originally Posted by GeneStarwind

Prison don't discriminate.

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http://social.jrank.org/pages/1352/Prisons.html

e: I kid, I kid. :P

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Originally Posted by B~E

http://social.jrank.org/pages/1352/Prisons.html

e: I kid, I kid. :P

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Well I would be willing to change my post if I was wrong, but damn 5% of the world is in prison??

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Originally Posted by JackhammerIV

Considering the concept art they showed for HoTS with jungle adapted zerg maybe they're considering introducing some variation in the models.

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Well that would be interesting.

My idea is not about changing a big deal of what any unit looks like, to the extent that models would affect gameplay any differently than the original models.

Would a different shade of coloration, type of portrait or sound, affect the gameplay mechanically? Because I don't want it to happen like that.

If I'm not mistaken, biological units that leave blood have a randomizing element that affects where blood lands, etc.