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Seems to be that way. I just switched to protoss and I've lost every game to mass zealots. It's no fun at all. I refuse to chronoboost my own, because I want to play a fun game, not a mass-vs-mass game. Maybe chronoboosting an early sentry would help?
If you don't want to match him with mass zealots, you can use stalker/sentry to block your ramp and take shots at the Zealots trying to get up. You have to be careful to keep control of the mass of zealots or they can quickly overrun you.
Colossus / High Templar->Archon. (zealots + stalkers kiting, zealots as tanks stalkers to attack-move)
Carriers / Void Ray (sentry to block ramp)
ST;
I'm just curious how you mean to say it deteriorates to it? Do you mean that you are having issue with early game pure-zealot rushes? Or are you speaking about how midgame zealot swarms are your issue. This will help the feedback better.
It's about those five lots that come rushing up your ramp when you have three and one sentry. He's got fourgate, you have twogate. So he can reinforce faster. It's possible to defeat the initial wave if you time your forcefield perfectly, and that often works, but half a second too late and you're screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted
I am bothered by this because it kind of reduces early pvp to 'who can mass most zealots'? I guess it's just another version of the 'rushes are lame cause they dumb down the game' argument, but yeah, they really do.
As to mid-game zealot swarms, those wouldn't bother me too much. You've had plenty of opportunities to see it coming. As for earlygame, I just prepare for mass zealots and try to be creative about it. Of course I scout, so usually I see it coming, but it's still difficult if you just want to tech up and have a fun game with versatile strategy and tactics.
People are probably going to tell me it's part of the game or some shit.
Yeah, I was talking about early-game. In mid-game you have plenty of options to deal with mass zealots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilice
Also, I just switched to protoss so maybe these are just growing pains. Used to play terran.
try teching up to stalker as fast as u can. Skip Zealots all together.
I guarantee that if you do this Zealot rush will never bother u again
:s really? mass zealots own stalkers early game tho. 6 lots vs 3 stalkers is a bad matchup, coz they go straight for ur probes or corner the stalkers eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsickness
u can just kite Zealots all day. Focus fire and use Probes if need be.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinX
Once you've defended that first push its pretty much an auto win because ure opponent is so far behind on tech.
The only way you should have a problem with going fast Stalker is Proxy gates. In which case it is indeed a race for Zealots except you have Probes near by giving you the advantage. Once your opponents gates fall, again it's a auto win.
Well block of your ramp with buildings and a zealot on hold, then just keep massing stalkers to have behind the wall off!
And if you get high on minerals get forge n cannons 2
2 gate in PvP is difficult to survive. Mass zealots is the least of your worries.... you need to learn how to defend against a 4 gate. If your opponent is good, he'll either hide a few pylons in your base and just warp in mass zealots... or he'll just be at your doorstop with a combination of zealot stalkers. You will need a minimum of 3 gates to defend such a rush, with a robo and immortal out asap... and even then its tough.
So summary is, you need to either learn the protoss 4 gate or the 3 gate-robo.... the latter you need to be able to use sentries wisely, but bearing in mind a good protoss can just use hallucinated colossi to crush your force fields (I haven't actually used this... but I heard its a hell of a strat) or use a pylon just outside your cliff and warp in units directly once they even have a few units up your ramp. Even if the protoss 4 gate fails to take you out, they can quite easily expand due to the sheer number of units they can bring out.
One strat I've seen is the 2-3 gate blink stalker timing push. I'm not a fan of it because my micro isn't that great (and I don't suggest you try unless you can get burst APM of at least 100 with protoss). DT strats invariably fail except against newer players. Key is either kill your opponent early, or survive and hope you out-tech him before his economy kicks in from his expo.
Would you post a replay, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sietsh-Tenk
In general, i think your biggest mistake, is that you don't scout. I mean, if your opponent goes for a 4gate mass zealot build, he'll have no stalker out to deny your scout.
After scouting, I'd either go for a fast forge + cannons, or I'd simply try to match his gateway count, and block my ramp.
If you dont have a partial wall off (just enough space for 1 unit) then zealot rushes can be a pain, but with the partial wall it basically nullifies any advantage that they would normally have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sietsh-Tenk
Early game mass zealots is countered by a good quantity of zealots backed by stalkers.
This can be annoying. Always partially block your ramp with a couple cannons behind. This works equally aganst ling rush. Pump a zealot/stalker mix. A sentry for FF if needed. You can also scare'em with a fast void or ht. Note this as a delaying tactic only.
Wait... early game aggression involves Tier 1 units? No way.
PvP is clearly an IMBA matchup.
Hahaha yeah I'm such a douchebag for wanting games with more than one type of unit! Lol dude I just saw the light, it's perfectly awesome to play games that are the same over and over again with mass zealots bashing each others' skulls in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junzou
Look, I'm not saying it's unreasonable to go mass zealots, or ineffective. I'm not expecting Tier 3 units after three minutes. I'm just pointing out how boring it is to have to face mass zealots every time, simply because it's so effective. I think it's more fun to have different unit combinations, which makes for more tactical diversity. That's why I'm posting this: to find out a good way of dealing with mass zealots without going mass zealots myself.
Besides, it's not just aggression of tier 1 units, it's aggression with massed tier 1 units of the same type game after game. No sentries, no stalkers. Sure, it might be the most effective thing to do, but I'm not playing a game to find out what's most effective and then repeating that like a robot. I play for funsies.
It's been quite some time since i've seen mass zeals. Best way to deal with them would be stalker micro or getting early sentries. Either way if you're really worried about it e.g. on a small map like steppes. Then just 10 gate. Fast cyber. Double gas. Sentries with zeals. And check for proxies in your base. Or just all stakers and micro them really well. Still a 10 gate and fast cyber.
That stalker thing is a good way to deal with em but you must also watch your probes...after you played more with protoss you will do that no problem