Terran Versatility -- Why?
No, this isn't a "Terran is OP" QQ thread. I play Terran, so they're obviously UP and rock is IMBA. This is about discussing the rationale behind Terrans having so many flexible extraneous structures that simply give them versatility -- versatility that other races simply don't have. Let's go through the list of "atypical" structures for all races and what makes them atypical.
TERRAN
Command Center -- allows worker units to load and unload to keep them safe, or for transport.
Orbital Command -- an upgrade to an existing structure that turns it into a versatile caster with both defensive (anti-supply block, scan, MULE) and offensive (MULE repair, scan for vision of high ground) capabilities.
Planetary Fortress -- an upgrade to an existing structure that turns it into a high powered stationary defense.
Supply Depot -- can be lowered to allow units to pass.
Bunker -- repairable, salvageable stationary defense that can hold infantry units.
Sensor Tower -- gives Terrans 'sight' in a wide range.
PROTOSS
Pylons -- allow Protoss to Warp-in units within Pylon range. Thaat's it.
ZERG
Nydus Worm -- allows the Zerg to transport units quickly around the map.
Creep Tumors -- burrowed 'structures' that provide Creep and vision. A teensy bit hesitant on these, because hey, if we count them, why not count Terrans' Auto-Turrets?
Spine & Spore Crawlers -- can uproot. Again a little hesitant to give Zerg this because half of the Terran buildings can 'uproot'... and have like 5 times more flexibility while uprooted than these two.
We can argue about the specifics, but there's a pretty obvious trend forming here, isn't there? Now I'm not saying that Protoss and Zerg races aren't interesting by any means -- they have plenty of fun and unique racial mechanics. Where Terran structures burn down, Protoss have shields and Zerg regenerate. Terrans can repair, but Protoss can teleport their units around the map, and Zerg have flexible production via Larvae. I'm not saying they aren't creative.
What I'm saying is that the Terrans are... overly creative in individual cases. And what I'm asking is, why? This is a potential problem, because it gives the Terran player too many options, and it gives the Terran race too much depth outside of its units. Just look at the number of pros who've started using Planetary Fortresses as tools for area denial once they've reached the supply cap. Look at the versatility of the Orbital Command in allowing MULEs to land on the high ledge on LT to repair a Thor or Siege Tank. Supply Depots are now built in the middle of the mineral line, because that allows them to stay safe without getting in the way of your gatherers.
All of these options give players infinite depth to explore... depth that really isn't there for the other races. So, again, why? Was this a deliberate choice by Blizzard, in that it's supposed to be a characteristic of the Terran race to have gimmicky buildings that serve fun/gimmicky functions? Although that IS possible, I find it strange, because nothing about SC1's design hinted at it -- the only returning "atypical" structure being the Bunker with its non-standard mode of attack. All other weirdnesses are completely new and unprecedented. One possible argument could be that the Zerg replace weird buildings with weird units (Overlord, Queen), but it still seems disproportionate for the Terrans even so... and there's no remotely similar parallel for the Protoss.
So what do you guys think? Was this deliberate? Is it a creative oversight influenced by the priority to get Terrans right for the Terran-themed installment of the game? Should Blizzard be thinking about adding superfluous but fun mechanics to the Zerg and Protoss in the future to create more versatility in their respective playstyles, outside of managing units or simple macro?
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pure.Wasted
Is it a creative oversight influenced by the priority to get Terrans right for the Terran-themed installment of the game?
I think so, yes.. much of the more or less gimmicky terran stuff makes lots of sense for the campaign, not least in contrast to zerg & protoss opponents.. combined with the customizability of your unit rooster in SP, it was made to give players lots of options in fairly straightforward ways.. and since they want MP and SP to overlap as far as possible, many of these gimmicks made it into MP (in the mule case it was the other way around but no matter..) this, while Z & P arguably got more straightforward stuff (with P we kind of saw them try and fail; soulhunter to dark-obelisk to tempest to crazy OP MS-version and several other things that have become a blurr)
Quote:
Should Blizzard be thinking about adding superfluous but fun mechanics to the Zerg and Protoss in the future to create more versatility in their respective playstyles, outside of managing units or simple macro?
its hard to answer this without getting specific, yet its sort of impossible to get specific too, but yes, i believe / hope this will be happening, because i can hardly see terran versatility getting "rolled back" in any way.
cant say what will happen, but hopefully expo MP content will bring more opportunities for Z and especially P to be creative with their playstyles.
... This might not be a representative snapshot of the metagame, but to me personally, terran versatility and customizability looks scarier right now than ever; whenever i have less than perfect intel on them, im quite uncertain of what to be afraid of, resulting in inevitable under-preparation for something, &/or over-preparation for something that isnt really comming, or is only comming on tiny scale.
even in high level play, terran early sneaky tech timings cannot be underestimated..
we'll probably figure ways to swing momentum back in our favor or at leat into balance. we have to. else, the sheer fear of terran versatility will make us passive and grant terrans a free general advantage.
... it might all lead into more sublte early action for opnents to terrans to try to at least gather relliable intel on whats to come.
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pure.Wasted
So what do you guys think? Was this deliberate? Is it a creative oversight influenced by the priority to get Terrans right for the Terran-themed installment of the game?
I think a bit of both. Deliberate because Blizzard developers envisioned Terrans as "versatile" and "gimmicky" from the very beginning, and an oversight because perhaps they've unwittingly given the Terran a strategic depth disproportianately greater to that of the other races.
Though the really interesting question is, how do you make Protoss and Zerg as tactically diverse without compromizing their racial identities?
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eligor
Though the really interesting question is, how do you make Protoss and Zerg as tactically diverse without compromizing their racial identities?
One idea I proposed back during the Beta, for Zerg specifically, was to allow them to morph individual Creep Tumors into different kinds of Tumors that would provide passive benefits in an aura around them. IE, allowing all nearby Zerg units to burrow regardless of upgrades, allowing all nearby Zerg units to burrow move, and so on and so forth.
I think there's quite a few ways for what you ask to be accomplished. If people want to use this thread to throw some ideas around, I suppose that's OK. :)
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pure.Wasted
One idea I proposed back during the Beta, for Zerg specifically, was to allow them to morph individual Creep Tumors into different kinds of Tumors that would provide passive benefits in an aura around them. IE, allowing all nearby Zerg units to burrow regardless of upgrades, allowing all nearby Zerg units to burrow move, and so on and so forth.
I think there's quite a few ways for what you ask to be accomplished. If people want to use this thread to throw some ideas around, I suppose that's OK. :)
I remember that one! Something that deserves at least an implementation in a custom map (I'd do it myself but don't have a computer capable of running SC 2 at the moment).
By the way, what if all Protoss units with energy could freely transfer it between each other? They do share a psionic link after all... Is this a totally horrible idea or does it have some merit?
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
I understand that Terran buildings need to move faster to use the addon-swap thing, but why do their CCs need to move that fast? That makes a Terran able to float it inside unpassable terrain, save an expansion that is under attack much easier, etc.
The worst of it, is that the scanner and silo used to be add-ons, so that it's possible to snipe them. Now you must destroy the whole CC/Covert Ops to do the same, not to mention the PF.
I'm more worried about the effectivity of some Terran counters to Protoss units. It makes you think why exactly are you paying extra for your units.
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eligor
By the way, what if all Protoss units with energy could freely transfer it between each other? They do share a psionic link after all... Is this a totally horrible idea or does it have some merit?
cool idea but not sure how to make it work; lwer cost units providign more energy to teh total pool can be a problem, (hello infinite storms with 1 HT in the field, and infinite use of MS-abilities)
... mostly, such a feature would open up for even more forcefield abuse; effectively block all counterattacks by land on main by leaving one sentry behind; since it has infinite energy from all the sentieres(/HT's) in main army.
a cool idea. maybe we can work with it, things that can help balance it out is adjusting the cooldwons on delicate abilities, and maybe adding a slight extra casting-time or cooldown for using that psionic link (when energy is low enough to warrant it)
... i too remember the idea of extending teh creeptumor concept.. its certainly a cool enough gimmick for camaign play, but for MP im not sure: being bound to creep, it feels a bit too limited to defense! maybe if verseers or some otehr unit could plant the special tumors, and creep jsust extended their duration and / or radius?
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
I personally don't think that many singleplayer 'gimmicks' carried over into MP. I mean, the whole Orbital Command deal was done practically for MP alone.
Supply depots being lowerable is, to me, not so much a singleplayer thing so much as just to make the game (multiplayer in mind, as well) more accessible for newbies. You wall with a Barracks in BW anyway, this way it's more intuitive.
Terran buildings being able to lift off is something from BW that they'd have a hard time getting rid of entirely since it's become such a big part of the Terrans' identity (although the Engineering Bay obviously didn't survive the SC2 transition with it).
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Yeah, I wonder why the engineering bay looks like it can fly when it actually can't.
Re: Terran Versatility -- Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eligor
I remember that one! Something that deserves at least an implementation in a custom map (I'd do it myself but don't have a computer capable of running SC 2 at the moment).
By the way, what if all Protoss units with energy could freely transfer it between each other? They do share a psionic link after all... Is this a totally horrible idea or does it have some merit?
Cool ideas and awsome thread BTW.
I can't really comment on Zerg, but what if Protoss could Shield transfer just like your energy transfer idea. Better yet, what if there was a dedicated unit that transfered both energy and shields. Kinda like a mobile shield battery that carried energy as well.
Probably would have to be made out of the robo bay or starport (depending on if its a flyer or not) so that players can't warp them in everywhere.
Mobile shield regen would definitely bring Archons into the light. And Energy transfer would just benifite Protoss play overall
