Retconning Weakens Starcraft 2 Story

Dear Comrades,

One intelligent poster on Battle.Net named Andrew had written a well-thought-out critique of the weaknesses of SC2 plot. The thread has grown to be about 80 pages long as of today and is one of the longest threads in the SC2 official forums. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374721415

Please post on the thread, if you'd like. I believe we need to keep it up to show Blizzard that the concerns are widespread.

The weakness of SC2's plot was agreed upon by at least ten acclaimed critics, as was posted here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1118393195 , but I am sure you do not need to be persuaded of it.

~ The ret-conning of the overmind's character from a powerful villain to a programmed puppet
~ Extremely weak dialgue and script compared to the original game and BW
~ Creating a recap of the history of SC during WOL's installation where events of Brood War are entirely skipped - the same voice with images can be found on Blizzard's official "story so far" section. Ironically, the second half of the voice-over is placed on a page dealing with Brood War, when it mentions nothing about Brood War - http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/lore/story-so-far/4

~ Weakening and inconsistencies with the characters of Raynor, Kerrigan and even Zeratul.
~ Inconsequential and unconnected branching optional quests
~ Lack of motivation in characters
~Ignoring the plot of the UED and Stukoff (yes, my Russian buddy ).

The list can go on and on...Andrew's post (essay) does a much better job critiquing the story.

What are your thoughts on it? If you have a moment, feel free to post on Andrew's thread and critique his arguments, if you can, so we can better serve the SC community and hope for Blizzard to improve the sequels. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374721415

After almost 80 pages on the thread, we finally got Blizzard to post a tiny message that the writers are aware of our concerns, but no dialogue or a writer post is yet forthcoming unfortunately.

Thanks so much!


~RS

This is more a response to the battle.net critique than the one here, so:

-I don't see any Overmind retcon. The only possible retcon is the Overmind perhaps knowing about the protoss before destroying the xel'naga, but it was only given a directive to do so. Learning about the protoss was effectively a means to that objective. Another thing is that the Dark Voice hijacked the Overmind from the start. It's hijacked personality rather than alternate personality. What we saw of the Overmind always was the Overmind. It's the case of a becoming b, rather than b with elements of a. Indeed, the decision to infest Kerrigan makes much more sense in the light of freeing the zerg rather than the vague belief that it needed humanity's psionic potential to defeat the protoss.

There's also the issue that there were numerous hints beforehand. The Khala protects the protoss from infestation, so the Overmind's assimilative desires have a strange irony to them in the Dark Voice's plan. And outside interferance with the zerg was directly hinted at in Twilight. In essence, I felt the greater insight into the Overmind served the character well. I'm kind of reminded of Mal's words from Firefly:

"A darkness...darker than the space in which it moved through. He probably tried to turn away but they wouldn't let him. Faced with that kind of will, the only way to deal with it...is to become it."

(or something. Essentially the Overmind was made 'evil', but from the start. And it makes sense that the xel'naga would fall to that rather than a stuff-up after repeating the cycle into eternity).

-Firstly, four years passed since Raynor's promise. It's explicitly mentioned in lore material that he turned away from his path of vengeance against the zerg and turned against the Dominion, not to mention the poor effects on his physical state. Then there's the issue of Kerrigan having to live to save Creation. So no, I don't see Raynor's deviation as coming out of the blue. The material was set in stone years ago, developed in the story and concluded at its end.

-What relevance does the UED have to Wings of Liberty? Very little. There's simply no real reason to mention them, as they have no bearing on the story as it's told. Besides, mentions of the UED-Koprulu relationship would essentially be red herrings. It's explicitly confirmed that the UED won't return anyway.

-I think Mengsk was characterized well in Wings of Liberty. He's reached the end of his development and it shows. I, Mengsk flehsed it out better than I can explain, but he's gone through many phases in his life, and despot is the last one. He has no need to be charismatic, because he no longer has a goal that his charisma has given him. It suits him well IMO.

-Obviously the user can't tell the difference between manga and novels, that neither the Dark Voice or Voice in the Darkness appeared in the DTS and thinks that they were once one and the same. They could have been, but it's the same level of evidence that backs up Duran and Routhe being the same individual. Possible, but hardly concrete.

-Firstly, the colossi had been called back into service before Zeratul did so. Secondly, the Nerazim had nothing to do with the Kalath Intercession, so he bears no personal guilt. Thirdly, yes, it could have been mentioned, but it's stated that he's only heard tales of them. He may not even know about the intercession and it's quite likely he doesn't know that much. It's not something a Khalai would be willing to bring up.

-The Conclave were arrogant...so arrogant that they believed they were winning the war until their fall, as is clearly explained in BW. So it makes sense they wouldn't use the colossi. An enemy force may invade your country, but that doesn't mean that nuclear weapons are your first resort in fighting back.

-Um, I don't think the protoss really worship the xel'naga as gods. Yes, the Tal'darim do, but as fanatics, it makes sense. The whole "by the gods" thing strikes me as more of a cultural legacy, how one can say "oh my god!" without being religeous.

-Oh yes, prophecy was brought into Wings of Liberty Let's forget the first mention of prohecy in the series was in 1998 and has been mentioned numerous times afterwards. And it's effectively a xel'naga prophecy I think-certainly they'd indirectly predicted the Great War beforehand.

So yes, there's very little I agree with. I also feel that if the 'complaints' are acted on, the game will only get worse. Everything in WoL (or rather, the mentioned points) had prior material to build on. It's as if certain people want to scrap everything that came between BW and WoL.

Andrew is Gradius lol.

I dunno, Gradius seems a bit more knowledgeble than Andrew.

Anyway, I'm not against people expressing their opinions. They have theirs, I have mine. It's just that it often seems that so much of the opinion stems from ignorance in a sense. The prophecy example is the most pertinant to me. It's been used/mentioned so often throughout the series, yet it's only an issue in WoL? If so many people loathed the idea of prophecy, then why not complain back then? EU material? Yes, but if people care about the story enough to complain about prophecy, then surely they would have cared enough to gain some basic understanding of other material.

Hi Hawki,

Firstly, I want to thank you for responding. You obviously know how to respond in a logical and coherent matter and I have enjoyed thinking about your points. Why won't be so kind as to cut and paste your reply using your battle.net account on Andrew's thread? So far he has been very reasonable in debating points in a logical manner. If you're saying his point is based on ignorance, why not let him know? He legitimately cares for improving SC plot and has said time and time again that he welcomes harsh critique of his points because his goal is not to bash Blizzard but to better understand and help improve the story, even if (like you mentioned) he should have gotten to doing it earlier.

To reply from my end:

1. There was no mention of any Dark Voice or any tempering with the Overmind in SC/BW - the DV was made up later in order to fit the current story. Overmind wanted to create a powerful psionic, semi-independent servant to increase the power of the Swarm. Her power was apparent from the start when she was able to cal to her companions across vast space.

2. I know it's mentioned that 4 years had passed, but to me it looks like a poor way to escape Brood War's character build up of Raynor. Could it be that that's the reason Brood War is NOT mentioned in the "story so far" voice during the installation and the one posted on their site?

3. UED? UED set in motion an entire series of events that comprised Brood War - conquering the entire sector, enslaving the new young overmind, setting events that led to Kerrigan needing Protoss and the death of Raszagal. It's no fluke that the writers and artists of Brood War have chosen to focus on the UED in the opening and closing cinematic of the game! Admiral GugaLe tells his wife that "by now the news of our defeat have reached the earth." We are told that UED - the huge Government force on Earth and its colonies was formed as a direct result of the alien discovery in the C. Sector. Ending of the Terran Cinematic showed propaganda on Earth television about the dangers of the Zerg. (Yes it might have been "Soviet style" overblown propaganda, but obviously deemed important by Earth!). So to assume the UED on earth would find it plausible to forget about the region is not persuasive at all.


4. Mengsk was charismatic during SC and BW both at times when he was rising to power (early SC), when he achieved absolute control (Terran ending video) and when he was defeated and still needed to regain power (BW). Charisma had never left the originally brilliant dictator.

5. I posted links to SC and BW scripts on Battle net both in Andrew's forum and on the front page in a separate title. Please feel free to provide references to where Prophecy was mentioned in SC/BW.

6. I think you're indeed making a good point here about Colosi. If anything, Zeratul exclamation as to how much of an abomination a hybrid is...a if he saw one for the first time is more troublesome.

Once again, thanks and please consider posting what you said on Andrew's battle.net thread.


~RS

1. Gradius posted a retcon article on this site just a few weeks ago.
2. Gradius real first name is Andrew.

I saw that article and posted it on Andrew's thread, at which point he made no reference to being the author. At another time he mentioned that he did not read many of the books, I believe.

So unless there is a deliberate attempt to hide one's identity (which I see no reason for given similarity in views), the first name is probably a coincidence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RussianSpy27

I saw that article and posted it on Andrew's thread, at which point he made no reference to being the author. At another time he mentioned that he did not read many of the books, I believe.

So unless there is a deliberate attempt to hide one's identity (which I see no reason for given similarity in views), the first name is probably a coincidence.

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How deliciously ironic then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RussianSpy27

1. There was no mention of any Dark Voice or any tempering with the Overmind in SC/BW - the DV was made up later in order to fit the current story. Overmind wanted to create a powerful psionic, semi-independent servant to increase the power of the Swarm. Her power was apparent from the start when she was able to cal to her companions across vast space.

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Different people have different definitions of retcons. Some people are fine with new information, others aren't.

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3. UED? UED set in motion an entire series of events that comprised Brood War - conquering the entire sector, enslaving the new young overmind, setting events that led to Kerrigan needing Protoss and the death of Raszagal.

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Alas, none of that was actually relevant to Wings of Liberty. Raszagal was only mentioned in Zeratul's unit quotes. The stuff about the Second Overmind would probably needlessly confuse new players.

Quote:

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Please feel free to provide references to where Prophecy was mentioned in SC/BW.

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There was evidence in lore, but not the game itself. Prophecy was briefly mentioned in Queen of Blades and also the Dark Templar Saga.

I'm not denying the almost certainty that the Dark Voice was brought in after the Overmind's initial story conception (though is likely hinted as far back as Dark Origin). As for Kerrigan, I think her birth really has double meaning-the Overmind created something to aid the Swarm, yet in a way that would fulfill both his and the Dark Voice's aims. This is perhaps the only time where the Overmind deviated from its directive, though I can understand the loophole of how it could do so really.

I dunno. The whole "Kerrigan needed to defeat the protoss" in the original game seemed a bit iffy to me, especially since it was never really made manifest. Granted, the Overmind learning of Aiur's exact location may have made it a moot point. Maybe I think the Dark Voice serves better as the "ultimate evil" while the Overmind is more along the lines of a magnificant bastard. Created to be evil, but not born as it. Or something.:confused:

-If this makes sense, I'd say that each war in the SC series has its own 'essence' if that makes sense. The 'essence' of the Great War is zerg vs. protoss with terrans caught in-between. The 'essence' of the Brood War, I'd argue, is Kerrigan vs. Daggoth with everyone else caught in-between or in the case of the UED, an outside factor. A strong one, but still outside nonetheless. As strong a role as the UED plays in BW, I still feel that it was really a zerg-centric conflict.

Once again it's down to opinion. Yes, the UED could have been mentioned in WoL, but didn't have to be. Kind of like the Guild Wars-mentioned for Meinhoff and Redstone III effectively, but it didn't really affect the story. Since the UED won't play a role in the trilogy, there's only really so much you can do with them without making it feel superflous. Maybe that's why the Brood War was skimmed over-the Great War sections in the prologue were followed up, such as Tassadar and the Overmind. The UED could have, probably should have been mentioned, but in the story itself, it wouldn't have that much relevance.

Anyway, it's been confirmed that the UED intends to do more at some point in the future. StarCraft III perhaps?

-Charisma never left Mengsk when he needed it-as you said...until the end of BW. Since then, he's had goals-hunt down Raynor, get revenge on Kerrigan, but I think that has to be mitigated by actually running an empire. It was mentioned in an interview that Mengsk's story has essentially been told, how he's gone from revolutionary to dictator. He can/could do what he wants and people will go along. Once again, down to opinion. But I did get the feeling from WoL that Mengsk is indeed reaching the end of his development. Valerian, who's an interesting character in his own right, seems ready to take the throne. Hopefully Arcturus will get what's coming to him in HotS. Still, again, opinion.

-Zeratul and the hybrid...I think I effectively missed that line in the mission, but I can understand the reaction from fans. Cynically, I'd point out that Duran being mentioned at that point may do more harm than good for newcomers. But for fans? Well, there is the fact that we know that Duran isn't the only one who's made hybrids-Ulrezaj is one, the Dominion another and I think Zeratul knew about the former via Zamara and Jake. There's also the issue of schemantics-I can say "who gave me a bad mark for an exam?" Obviously the marker, but which one? Kind of like, who, working for Duran, did this?

Weak, I know. Indeed, there seems to be quite a bit going for Zeratul and his lines, saying how I must do x to accomplish y all the time. Thing is, I'd say that's really for the player, instead of the narrator format instructing the player in Warcraft III. Pros and cons I guess, but I wouldn't say it's Zeratul going senile. If anything, he's thinking the lines rather than saying them. Heck, for a telepathic race, speaking and thinking are pretty similar.;)

-Technically prophecy was first mentioned in Retribution-I think the next one, this time directly from Blizzard was in its battle.net maps. Either way, it came into play pretty early.

-I'm a bit surprised, come to think of it, that the issue of Tassadar wasn't mentioned. For the record, I'm about 50/50. His return wasn't exactly a surprise-it was hinted at in a BlizzCon, again in Twilight with the Anak'Sun concept. Some have compared him to Medivh and I can appreciate the similarity, but with Medivh, he came back for redemption and I felt it was handled well, how he went from villain in WC1, to fallen hero in WC2, to redeemed individual in WC3 (further fleshed out in The Last Guardian-one of the best WC books IMO).

Tassadar seems to have a different angle. One of the DTS vibes that was expressed directly and indirectly is that the protoss seem to be in their own cycle of disunion and reunification. Aeon of Strife, Khas saves them. The Discord, Adun saves them. The return of the Nerazim to Aiur, Tassadar uses both Khala and Void energies and saves them. Something else is going on I think. I even wonder if the Dark Voice might be related to the mini-cycle sometimes.

On the other hand, I think Raynor could have at least acknowledged the fact that Tassadar returned. Yes, he now knows that Kerrigan can save them but...come on Raynor, surely Tassadar deserves a mention?:( Still, again, opinion.

-I'm a bit reluctant to post on b.net, to create an account for a single post and likely never post again. Still, feel free to copy-paste or something.