personally i liked all the voice acting.
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personally i liked all the voice acting.
Ah, but it's ok for Blizzard to make a story that will dissapoint their fans, even if most people are ok with that? Weren't they known for their attention to quality?
Also, "good story" is not enough. This game was supposed to be epic. To be a worthy successor to SC1. To make splitting the story in 3 more than worth the money.
thats a good point, if SCII was released prior to WoW i think it would of been epic, but now that they make more money than some countries through zombie subscription payers, they just dont have to care, if the game doesnt sell as well as they hope they still have WoW.
this is the same reason why my hopes for diablo 3 are miniscule, all i hope is that you can name your character what you like, anything else is just a bonus.
Interesting. I didn't know about it. I think such a boycott must be more loud to succeed, maybe have its own website dedicated to it explaining the hows and whys of the boycott. More presence in the community as a definite cause, essentially.
Although, on the other hand with Blizzard's earnings this kind of a boycott must be pretty large to have any economical leverage. It would need around 160,000 people participating in it for Blizzard to lose one million dollars. Which is still at most just a hundredth of their earnings from StarCraft 2. So perhaps it is a futile gesture one way or another.
honestly? even Dawn of War II has a better story hah
Eligor made a great point
the game is split in 3 parts, Pardo said that they want those campaigns to be epic and that is the reason why they split it in the first place...but am I missing something or the game was meh? I mean it looks like they started writing then stop doing anything and in the end they started making missions
for example docking tubes to Dominion's Flagship BC? 2 men army kicking ass?
if I would be the writer I would have this idea I came up with some day
Matt Horner
Sir Dominion's Battlecruisers are warping in, Mengsk Flagship is leading them!
Tychus
Sweet mother mercy!
Raynor
Matt get the hell us out of here!
Matt
Sir! The Bucephalus is firing an EMP round we won't make it in time!
*Raynor is checking his revolver if it's loaded, it is loaded with one bullet, meanwhile darkness appears as the EMP hit it's target"
silence
*Dominion Marine squadrons are pushing through Raynors ship to the bridge*
*Raynor, Tychus and few other Marines are preping themselfs to repeal the attack, Dominion Marines are breaching the door throwing down stun grenades, Tychus is raging throwin down 3 Marines and killing the 4th one, while Jim is laying covering fire blindlessly, finally Tychus has a Ghost pointing a gun to his helmet and he gives up, Raynor throws down his weapon (still having his revolver, a shape comes in, it looks like a general...Raynor sees a familiar decal on that guy's clothing, it seems it's Mengsk himself, Raynor pulls his weapon of choice and points at Mengsk...*
Shape
So we finally meet, the infamous Raynor.
Raynor *doesn't recognize the voice*
Who are you?! And tell me why I shouldn't kill you right now?
Shape
I own the Mobious Foundation and I think that I don't need to reveal myself, I dont answer to you. Do you have the artifacts as we previously arranged?
Raynor
I ain't giving you nothing
Dominion Squad Leader
Put the gun down!
Raynor
Not until I get some damn answers!
Dominion Squad leader
I said put the gun down.
Matt
Sir, please do what they say, it's pointless.
Raynor
I said no!
Shape
Now I know why my father sees a greater threat in you than I thought you are.
Raynor
Your father?
Shape
Yes, I am Valerian Mengsk, now, you got your answer, put the gun down.
Raynor
No, I still don't know what the hell is going on. Tychus did you knew about this?!
Tychus
Oh man I swear I didn't know anything.
Valerian
It's true,*Jim isn't pointing the gun anymore* now Jim let me explain.
Raynor
You trash in to my ship just to let you explain all this? I will explain you one thing *Jim points the gun again*
Valerian
I can help you do what you always wanted to do, I can help you rescue Kerrigan.
*there is a silence, Jim puts his gun down not beliving what he just heard*
and now we get to the point when Valerian is explaining how the artifact works
Your post is BS. I've done several threads about the story, maybe you should check your own facts and eyes and see for yourself the majority of responses and don't give me the BS about content people don't reply, what kind of crap is that? Where the frak did you pull that off, your arse?
I don't want to argue about stuff but i think that wings of liberty was almost as good as it could get for a Terran campaign, Zerg and Protoss is of course the major part of the Starcraft universe and i'm sure it will get pretty mind blowing with the stuff thats coming 4 Hots and Lotv.
Wol only surrounded jimmy taking on the world so of course everyone will not get satisfied, the hybrid action, cerebrates and characters as Samir Duran and maybe some new infested Terran characters will make the Sc2 scene more complex for Hots.
But back to topic voice acting could be better but it's hard to get same people acting 10 years later, they might not even be in the business anymore.
Artanis need to change though!
I just wish Artanis sounded more like this:
http://sclegacy.com/_staff/gradius/s...nissample5.mp3
http://sclegacy.com/_staff/gradius/s...anis2.done.mp3
Those are not the original SC sound bits. They were made by fans w/ no special voice acting skills. It's not remotely hard to reproduce the original Artanis voice.
I actually played through first 4 campaigns in SC1 (installed from my raynor dogtag usb)^^
And u just got to love the Artanis voice but not that mush anymore!(for sc2) :(
The fan made voice was indeed cool but not that good that i would want it in the game! :(
Obviously nobody would since they're not studio quality and nobody spent the time to make the fancy mothership background sounds to go along w/ them, not that anybody suggested it should be used in the game. The point was that Blizz totally missed the voice direction for Artanis.
It pains me to say this, but that's both more believable and interesting, for the price of what, another 30 seconds? The dialogue is clunky, but that's easily fixed. The important thing is that the concept is solid.
It never did sit right with me that Valerian's entire plan was based on the idea that A) Raynor doesn't attempt to run, B) Raynor doesn't get killed in the ensuing battle, and C) Raynor doesn't shoot Mengsk (Jr.) before asking questions. A) and C) seem pretty at odds as it is -- only reason Raynor wouldn't run is if he wants Mengsk to die that badly. If he wants Mengsk to die that badly, is it really that good an idea to stand around with your back turned HOPING he'll say something before opening fire?
At least I'll never be accused of double standards...
TL; dr. (Not a 6-page thread on ephemerals.)
Some of these characters won't even be in Heart of the Swarm. Tosh isn't appearing again, for instance.
I personally thought that Kerrigan's and Valerian's voices were particularly bad, besides the mishaps so many have pointed towards in the thread.
But this whole SC2 being bad/dissappointing/subpar/etc. reminded me that as far as I know SC:Legacy still hasn't published their grand review of the game. I've been looking for it but couldn't find anything.
Any reason for this long delay?
Speaking of delays, where's the "demo" Chris Sigaty promised in the last developer chat before launch? Did I miss it?
And to join the "bashing", SC2 was to me simply poorly written. Storylines didn't unveil themselves pretty well and didn't follow a storywise "hierarchy". And the fact that Metzen said to Blizzcon this year, that they still haven't figured a lot of the story out for HotS makes me worry a lot.
I say it with all honesty, with a group of fans I know that are devoted to the SC universe I could do it even better
the idea of such events was one of many that came to my mind, it's not that I was thinking of it over and over again, I writed this in few minutes and I had already dozens of other theories of how that situation could differently be writed
it's not that hard and if you PW said that it's more interesting and more belivable than Blizzard's version than I have no more need to defend/support my claims that Blizzard failed totaly the campaing
also any approval from purewasted is worth 100x more of any member I know closer here
I wish I had some influence on the ideas of WoL story so that it would not suck that much, it had it's potential mainly because of research upgrades, permanent upgrades for units, non-linear story (at least in some way)
I hope to god you're wrong, Kimera, though you're probably right. Tosh was a really cool character, probably my favourite of the new additions, and he could have fantastic scenes with Kerrigan if they'd only allow that. They did say that helping Tosh was the 'canon' path, so here's to hoping they give this guy some more airtime.
On an unrelated note.. or is it related. Whatever. Really good idea there, Spychi. That whole scene was horrible. But I have one that's even more plausible, I think, albeit much more anti-climactic.
The Bucephalus jumps in.
Raynor: Pull up docking tubes, we're going in!
Tychus: Alright, finally some action!
Comm Officer: Sir, they're hailing us!
...
Raynor: On screen!
Valerian: Greetings, Commander Raynor, my name is Valerian Mengsk. I own the Moebius Foundation and I've come to collect the artifacts you have gathered for me.
Raynor: What the.. Tychus, did you know about this?!
Tychus: Jimmy, I-
Valerian: I believe I also have an offer for you, one you won't be able to pass up. I offer you a chance at redemption. For you and someone dear to you.
Raynor: Spit it out, Junior!
Valerian: I would rather we meet in person... Jim.
Raynor: Then get on a shuttle and we'll roll out the red carpet. And you'd better hope I like what you have to say, kid.
There. I never understood why Valerian would risk so much just for a chance to be dramatic. He threw away his men's lives, not to mention wagering, like Spychi said, his own life on the fact that Raynor would actually say something before shooting him. This way no one gets hurt, Raynor feels safe, because he'll have Mengsk's son on his ship, and I think Valerian is arrogant enough to be sure that his offer really is irresistable to Jim that he'd put himself in a compromising situation. Especially considering the actual cinematic puts him in a MUCH worse situation.
For thous how have not heard all the Kerrigan Quotes here u go!^^ I think she has pretty cool phrases! :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY7-CE_6228
Yeah, it seems easy enough... until you hit little bumps like the limitations of mixing gameplay with story, non-linearity and character development, lore consistency and trying to make it all fit in with the trilogy concept. I'd say it's comparable to fighting with one arm tied behind your back. As for the ridiculousness of the Valerian meeting with Jim, it's a bit of a coin toss for me as to whether or not it's a new standard of ridiculousness. Can think of a couple of moments from both BW and WoL where my opinion of Blizzard took a turn for the worse, prime examples been everything about Kerrigan and Zeratul of Shakuras and the battlecrusier docking. So I guess that Blizzard just like to throw logic out the window and go for the rule of cool sometimes.
The docking scene needed better execution, but I think that the game did a fine enough job at preparing us for something as conceptually ridiculous as that. Consider this: Jim, just before the meeting had retrieved the fifth piece from a burning planet about to go supernova so that he could fund the revolution. If he's going to go that far for funding, then it's a good bet that Jim would do something irrational like dock with the flagship. And between Jims rescue of Narud and Kerrigans search for the artifact, I believe that Jim had more than enough reason to believe that the artifacts could be weaponized. It was Valerian who needed the extra character development, or to just not be so reckless.
You mean Kerrigan letting Zeratul go after he killed Raszagal? How exacly was that ricidulous? It was one of the best character moments in StarCraft.
Which was the point of several posters all along. It doesn't make it any better that Valerian behaved in a silly way, it's still silly. Although I believe that Blizzard had the right general intentions with the scene, to show that Valerian can keep his cool in extreme situations and isn't easily intimidated by threats, I just wish they haven't gone about it in such a contrived way.
I agree, it's much better.
As it was done in the game, it was kind of suicide from both sides, because with so many BCs Raynor and it's people would get killed before getting close to the ship, and allowing them to board the ship was nearly like playing russian rulette with an automatic.
Also, the scene when Raynor says Arcturus is ridiculous, because it's clearly seen it cannot be him. They should had put Valerian in shadows.
Aldaris: Hey I think Kerrigan is controlling Razagal... I know! I'll start a rebellion and not tell anyone why!
Aldaris: Oh Hey Zeratul, my bad for starting the rebellion and all, it's just kerrigan has masterminded some scheme and has this deep dark secret. Right, so her secret is as follows. Your matriarch is been controlled by- oh shit lurker spines!
Kerrigan: Stands around taunting Zeratul for five minutes
Zeratul, forgetting the deep dark secret: Begone, you are no longer welcome here!
And apparantly we're supposed to think that this was Kerrigan been clever. And that none of Aldaris' followers were informed as to the reasons for the rebellion in the first place.
The scene where Zeratul killed Razagal was a good moment but everything that led to that moment was weak. Also, we never hear about the Zel'Naga uber weapon that we gathered the crystals for ever again which might have been a writing oversight considering that Razagal had to be kidnapped from Shakuras.
I believe that we were supposed to accept the fact that the shields were down to be a golden opportuinity for Jim to dock with the flagship. You said it yourself, that if the Hyperion would have open fired that it would be hopelessly outgunned and would be unlikely to destroy at least three battlecruisers because sheilds or no shields, those things would need a lot of firepower to destroy. By docking they can just engage the guards in narrow chokepoints which is something which a small strikeforce can take care of. I don't think the other cruiser captains were going to risk blowing up the Hyperion when it could also mean killing Mengsk in the collatoral damage.
Maybe Blizzard just didn't make it wild enough? I only thought of it just now and it's probably a bit too exaggerated in the context of facing down at least three enemy cruisers. Suppose that instead of docking with the ship that the Hyperion somehow breaches the hull of the ship and then lauched a bunch of drop pods into the opening before going into hyperspace? We've already seen marines in zero or low gravity before haven't we?
Actually it all made good sense, as Zeratul most likely believed Aldaris to be mentally unstable and the idea of Raszagal being mind-controlled by anyone was for him in the realm of the inconceivable (remember that she was his respected and honoured matriarch probably since the moment of his birth), so it comes as no surprise that he dismissed what he considered to be the ravings of a deranged mind (the Protoss in general underestimate Kerrigan and don't expect her to be devious enough during that campaign, intrigue isn't their forte). Aldaris' actions, on the other hand, are quite characteristic of his dogmatic and sharply black and white stance. Once he perceived Razsagal to be mind controlled by Kerrigan he did his equivalent of jumping ten feet away and pointing a gun at her which was in his mind the Right Thing (with capital letters) to do, he would've felt as if he'd gone back on a principle of honour had he done less and in his eyes his actions would've just made it extra sure that everyone listened to what he had to say really well. Protoss tend to underestimate and view as being "beneath them" the things they despise (especially the dogmatic and rigid Khalai), and so Aldaris didn't count on Kerrigan's guile as much as he should have, she was an "exposed sinner" for him and his first priorities were to expose her guilt while doing the correct symbolic gesture. And the latter proved his undoing.
As for Raszagal's kidnapping. The Xel'Naga temple was something that needed to be specially activated with all the Protoss hiding inside it, it's something that can prevent the colonization of the planet by the Zerg, but not a small (or even sizeable) Zerg "task force" landing covertly (or just unexpectedly) on the face of the planet, doing its business and leaving quickly. The temple protects the Protoss of Shakuras from being overrun and annihilated or from a war of attrition, but not from blitz tactics.
Artanis said what? Like 2 lines (when he arrives and when he dies)...Not enough to place a decision.
In any case, the actors were all decent at worst. I didn't find any of them totally bad but I wouldn't mind replacing Zeratul and Kerrigan. What was bad was not the actors but the lines they had to read...Especially Zeratul.
It would be totally impossible to approach the ship unless they allow it. It was what? half the Dominion's fleet? If i were Raynor, i would suspect that the ship is full of C4 ready to be detonated as fast as i board it, but hey, maybe Raynor isn't as brillant as that :rolleyes:
Maybe he's so sure Mengsk won't kill him that he will prefer to die instead, even when it would be totally ok to kill someone that is boarding the emperor's ship by force? :rolleyes: Even if that made Raynor a martyr somehow, who the f*ck is going to know who killed him and where? He will just dissapear.
We saw three cruisers, not half a fleet. I don't need to be master tactician to tell you that hostile ambushes normally happen from behind and are rarely so half assed that they'd forget the shields. Also, Mengsk knew the meeting location, so it's kind of conventional wisdom to simply wait for Jim to arrive rather than jump in later on after getting his bearings.
So I guess Jim could assume that it's either not an ambush or that Mengsk really is that incompetant. But most likely Jim was probably blind with vengeance or was just sick of living. Or maybe a bit of both. Also, he was probably slightly drunk.
Anyway, you can argue that Jim was been dumb, but Jim kind of makes a living from it, doesn't he? Violates confederate protocol to be arrested for attacking a command centre infested with some aliens he's never seen. Invades said alien planet with the Sons of Korhal deserters to invade said alien planet cause he had a dream of some girl he had a crush on. Enables Kerrigan to kill everyone plus Fenix because he still had a small hope that she might be reformed and a safer choice than the UED? Collects an artifact from a burning planet?
Too bad Matt Horner is XO. The boy scout. What would you do if 3 Dominion Cruisers just warped in?
Is Yamato Cannon in your vocabulary?
The whole story line was riddled with cliches and B+ writing.
The voice actors were fine, even Kerrigan/Tricia Helfer. It wasn't nearly as bad as you guys put it out to be. It was maybe mediocore...but so was the storyline.
I'm not hating, just saying my opinion. Even Dustin Browder had some retrospective insight on how they tried to do a Mass Effect thing but it didn't quite work out.
Haha and to everyone who has been telling people to STFU about complaints on the game, this is a forum :rolleyes: . You know it's one thing to go to a line up for Twilight and tell the fans the movie is shit, it's a completely different thing when going into a thread on a forum that's critical of some aspect of the game. Oh and comparing SC2 to another RTS and thus hailing it as "the best" is a weak argument. RTS have bland storylines in general, but this particular one didn't feel up to par. That standard has been set by StarCraft and WC3.
Give me more cinematics where the clouds part and the sky is clear on a volcanic world (Char) , then some heroic speech by a badass space cowboy...
Right....
and P.S. - they cut back the budget on the single player obviously
Why do they have real time cinematics? It's cheaper to do it in game and not waste computing time/pay the cinematics team. Do you think Dustin Browder/Metzen, geeks here, want people with low-mid end computers to see a dumbed down version of a cinematic? (Dustin talked about this problem in an interview) I ran the game on Ultra and the in-game cinematics were "pretty good" but nothing close to the legendary Blizzard standards of cinematics.
My ship to ship tactical expertise is kind of rusty atm, so I don't know. Apparantly there is a lot of inconsistency between the lore and what we see in game, and that there always has been. All I know is what I was told in the cinematic, and that the Hyperion was apparantly closing the distance rapidly. Maybe it takes like half an hour to prepare the yamato cannon to fire or something otherwise it would have been an easy matter of blowing a whole in the Duchepalus bridge before it's escorts destroy the Hyperion before it can warp jump. So with my powers of suspension of disbelief I basically just assume that Jim had some kind of plan and that he didn't care much about the consequences as long as he thought that he had a chance to kill Mengsk. See, I don't often care much about the technicalities as long as I'm given an explanation for why shit happens. I understand why Jim did it and it's consistent with his resume of the crazy shit that he's pulled off, it's just Valerian sacrificing his troops for no apparant reason, and apparantly trusting that Jim wouldn't pull the trigger immediately that irritates the hell out of me.
Seems like people want Tricia gone and also strong support for Zerathul actor to be chopped.
I must say that I absolutely disagree about Zerathul. I think his "bad acting" was because of predictable and cheesy bad lines. Also the after effects on Zarathul voice are crap and they need to add a different kind of effect.
About Tricia Helfer, I think she is a great actress, that just can't replace Glyn for Queen of Blades, but I have a feeling that she will own the Sarah Kerrigan part and bring her AAA+ acting for her. She was Oscar worthy acting is a lot of BSG episodes and I have a feeling we are going to see that level of acting from her, when she portrays Kerrigan.
I think apart from the obvious "would have wanted all original actors to return" to at least keep the current actors so there is a continuity for the characters for the SC2 trilogy.
They can be a lot better and I'm hoping they will all get better for the expansion.
If I didn't know better this talk of ruining Kerrigans would have given me the impression that she had a role, a character arc and an apparant purpose in the WoL plot. Lucky for me that I've personally played the campaign to know that this is not the case.
What did they do with Kerrigans character exactly? Let me guess. You're pissed off that she didn't "win" as usual, and that she is apparantly lost the green skin to an artifact? She needs like, development and stuff.
Whatever, I've kind of lost the will to debate over SCII so I'll just say that her whole nihlist emo personality was introduced by BW and consistent with WoL, we don't know what the artifact has done and I'm going to leave it at that.
EDIT: And by this I mean that the characterization was fine. The script wasn't.
In SC 2 she claims (apparently quite sincerely) that she accepts her destiny, is ready to die when the end comes and there's nothing to do in the face of the coming storm. And yet she mobilizes the Swarm, starts looking for the pieces of the artifact, so enthusiastically as to search for it herself in person, then resists her de-infestation at all costs yet seems perfectly alright with it once it happens, all the while having little in the way dialogue, much of which is mediocre, and never really feeling like a threat of any kind or providing any stakes besides "get the artefact piece before Kerrigan gets it". If that's good writing or character development to you, well, I rest my case then. In BW Kerrigan is interesting, her actions make sense, she's a character to be reckoned with. In SC 2, not so much.
Yeah okay. BW plot also felt rushed due to cramming three stories into one. They're not doing it that way for SCII, so wait for HotS.
I don't think anyone needs to be chopped atm. We haven't had enough contact with the SC2 world to make this judgement. Sure, much of the dialogue was weaker than what we expected. I'll agree to that. But overall the story was very good, if a little contrived at times.
As for charcater development, I have a few notes:
Returning Characters:
Raynor, Mengsk, Zeratul: No further pure character development was needed, simply an update on their whereabouts and activities in the interim time period. This was handled very well.
Kerrigan: the above applies to her as well, with two notes: (1) General character development was very unnecessary due to the abundance of development elsewhere (SC1, novels). It sufficed the SC2 plot simply to know she is still in charge and is still as ruthless as ever. (2) Saying anything about her feelings toward the artifacts at this point is pure speculation and must be treated as such. We simply were not given anything to even speculate on for that matter.
Tassadar: The opening notes apply here except he was handled to easily, and it showed. Being a race of psionically endowed people, it is not surprising to me in the least that he would have found a way to exist in the Khala without a physical shell. I would have liked a more in depth explanation other than it simply "is". I would forgive this transgression if an only if we find that it is a platform from which further, more meaningful story is derived. That, said, one could argue, as I will for some of the new faces, that time was not given for further development of Tassadar's character, however expectations for such a character demanded that time be made. That interaction should have been a full cinematic.
Overmind: We already knew the OM slaughtered the Xel'Naga, but nowhere were we told why. While this element of the story is also weakly done, it does fit into existing gaps in the lore, whether we want it to or not.
New Characters: here is where character development really fell off. We must ask "Why?" Because none of these characters were truly integral to the plot as yet. Most of the Protoss heroes simply appeared as Zeratul's allies, so there was no time to do so. Jim's crew members simply acted as fillers and data outlets with the exceptions of Dr. Ariel Hanson, Tychus and Tosh. I personally think Tosh was the best written of the three, although the least used.
I am going to end with a general story note that I think we should all bear in mind: the toughest part of the SC2 story to swallow is the mediocre continuity from level to level. The addition of choice is an undeniable contributor, and I can cite several RPGs that have the same failure (Final Fantasy 12 anyone?), but came out as very decent games nonetheless. You do not have to do the branch/side quests. It is perfectly reasonable to just do the main branch and leave it at that. Try it. Let the main story flow without the side notes and rejudge the story accordingly.
I would say that the ideas of:
- Using the Adjuntant to reveal what Mengsk have done.
- Kerrigan is needed to avoid the Hybrids to take over the Swarm.
- Using a Xel'Naga artifact to de-infest Kerrigan.
by themselves aren't the problem. The problem is how all that was revealed and how it was done.
The bad dialog. The anticlimatic, or less than credible situations. The meaningless missions and decisions. You couldn't decide anything in SC1, but the decisions taken by the characters where critical. If they would need to do the same with WoL """you choose""" philosophy, they would have needed to do several games, and link them together. For example, in SC1, what if you stick to the Conclave? What if you go with Tassadar, but change your mind when the DTs are involved? When playing as Raynor, what if you don't destroy the infested CC at the beginning? What if you decide that Mengsk is a SOB before? And so on.
Massive lol @ "Blizzard owes us" mentality.
The majority of cinematics being real-time isn't evidence of a SMALLER budget, it's evidence of a BIGGER budget. Other games (Blizzard games included) would not have had non-pre-rendered cinematics, period.
Remember WC3? How many cinematics did that game have, again? Or did it also suffer from lack of campaign funding, I wonder.
Tricia Helfer seriously wasn't that bad. She IS NO Glynnis Talken, but like others have said - Metzen loves BSG..and he loves Tricia...GG
Kerrigan barely even spoke in the game, I mean asides from the retrospect cinematic...she had all but a few lines.
Tychus has good voice acting but they made his character pretty 1 dimensional and left us knowing he was a mole from the start (intro cinematic). ZzZzzzZZzZZzz......
I won't bash on SC2 that much, since it is only a RTS. I never expected much, but I won't lie - I was slightly disappointed.