With Voids nerfed, cant do this (me vs #2 rank in world)

So, with this recent bullshit patch, totally going to ruin the game balance.

I'll share a game I played recently, vs AlLabOutyOu, the #2 ranked player in the world at 2500 diamond (www.SC2ranks.com)

Besides the point he tried 7raxing me, and the fact he did the lame floating hellion crap, he also got up 2 bunkers and barricaded himself in his base. If the void rays were as they are in this new patch, theres NO way I would of been able to do anything, I cant expo because his army would just walk over mine, and I couldnt attack because his bunkers are retardedly strong (Not to mention, you can salvage bunkers for 100%, how balanced is that)

Anyways, goodbye to beating any decent terran now I guess. Ground units all suck vs marauders, and now voids suck too.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community...-33-157620.jpg

I will go on and agree with you, alot of Terran players that would switch to P or Z would suck soo fcking hard because Terrans are mostly no-brainers and they push with their Marauders like god damn cunts
blizz favoring T starts to piss me off

its just you cant fight them as a ground army because marauders ruin everything protoss has on the ground.. and now you cant fight them with an air army either. Not to mention bunkers, they can build 10 bunkers at their expo if they want, knowing full well they will get ALL that money back as soon as they feel like it, and shit if any protoss ground army can break 10 bunkers filled with marine/marauder..

it will indeed be harder to use VR to bust entrenched positions like this, but the unit will also be more versatile in back n forth fights across the map, where the low L1 damage previously made it utterly useless.

.. this is some new ground, and im not qualified to srsly judge, but 100% buff vs armored before charge-up has to have some impact!

But why would you expect to beat the #2 player in the world anyways?

I don't quite understand the correlation between the replay and your assumption that the matchup is imbalanced. Isn't he a better player than you?...Hence the rank?

edit: well, I just watched the replay and it displays pretty clearly how much this change was necessary

I just tried this strat in a custom game. The difference is quite severe actually. I don't plan on mixing voids into my army anymore tbh.

I've heard good things about kcdc's 1-gate FE build, so I'm going to go check that out.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

Besides the point he tried 7raxing me, and the fact he did the lame floating hellion crap, he also got up 2 bunkers and barricaded himself in his base. If the void rays were as they are in this new patch, theres NO way I would of been able to do anything, I cant expo because his army would just walk over mine, and I couldnt attack because his bunkers are retardedly strong (Not to mention, you can salvage bunkers for 100%, how balanced is that)
http://www.gamereplays.org/community...-33-157620.jpg

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I'm sorry, but I don't understand this at all. Perhaps you uploaded the wrong rep or something, because your description of the game isn't even close to what that game actually was.

First he never at any point came close to going 7 rax. He only made 2 Barracks in the entire game, then teched to cloak banshees. That first sentence is a baseless claim. And truthfully, that "floating hellion crap" was the funniest thing I have ever seen. He literally takes his factory from his base to yours, plants it right next to your pylon and then builds a hellion! It's not like he proxied you or anything, he even did it in your full sight range. It took you 30 seconds before you even attacked it, so then the first hellion poped out and went after your probes. Then after taking care of the hellion, you proceed to leave the factory alone! You literally just walk your units out of your base, leaving the factory to continually pump hellions and still in full sight of your pylon! I'm actually shocked that you only lost 3 probes to that, because it should have been far more significant.

Between 6:07 and 6:48, you didn't make a single probe and only made 23 probes by the end of the game. Sure you lost 3 to the Hellion harrass, so even if we bump that up to 26, you never at any point in the game had full saturation of one base. Of course you wouldn't be able to expand, you didn't have the probes to support an expo.

Not to diminish your victory or anything, its a great achievement to beat that guy. But I have to agree with Hammy here, between reaction time, general macro and decision making, there should have been no way for you to win that game. He had higher and consistent production, both in SCV's and units, he also had near equal tech to you with the techlab starport with ravens and banshees with pending cloak. Matches like that are a case study as to why blizzard did what they did to VR's.

Edit: Now that I am done with the post and watched the rep over again, I would say that you actually did a good job attacking when you did. It seemed like he was going way too many things at once and you caught him in transition. I know the post sounds pretty harsh, but I'm not trying to diminish your victory. I'm just saying, that if you were ontop of your production on both probes and units, you likely wouldn't have needed VR's to win. He was very passive the whole game, even taking a very late expo despite his turtled position. Although it felt like his army was scary, he never left his front door, so he might as well had no army. Really, you were free to expand for quite a while.

7 rax = barracks at 7 supply :)

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

7 rax = barracks at 7 supply :)

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Which he didn't do either. His first rax came @ 12 supply.

I totally agree with Skyze, the marauder just steam-rolls all protoss ground units, voids were necessary

he sent his FIRST scv out to my base.. if my probe wasnt there to see it (because I know every terran just does that lame 7rax crap on scrap station) then I would of died in 4 minutes to mass marine proxy. Maybe you guys aren't familiar with that abusive strat, which is EXACTLY why supply depot before rax has been added to the game, because any terran could kill a protoss in 3 minutes with how abusive 7rax marines + bunkers are. I stopped it obviously when I spotted his scv and he reverted to normal play, but you cant tell me something fishy wasnt up when he sends one of his first 6 scvs to my base..

The Factory wasnt in my vision range at all until I went over there with my units, and I even had 2 stalker and 2 zealot there and couldnt even come close to catching the hellion. A Hellion is instantly guaranteed at least 2-3 hits on scvs earlygame when you float a factory over, because protoss doesnt have enough units to stop it (unless the terran micros horribly) .. How is that balanced? Its the same as when a terran gets a reaper into a zergs base in the first 2 minutes and they only have normal lings, gotta pray they mess up their micro or you are gonna be screwed. So that was lame, not to mention he was NOT expanding, doing that + building up a marauder ball army.. I had no other choice but to counter, because if I expo'd he would run me over once his marauders reached 10 (no ground army can deal with that much marauders) and if I attacked without voids, his bunkers (which are salvagable for 100%) would hold every ground unit no problem, then he can cancel them to get 100 minerals back even if they had 10 life left.

I agree that marauders can't be stopped now ,but at least 7 raxing ,wont be possible either.U better ban terran maps for now i guess.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

he sent his FIRST scv out to my base.. if my probe wasnt there to see it (because I know every terran just does that lame 7rax crap on scrap station) then I would of died in 4 minutes to mass marine proxy. Maybe you guys aren't familiar with that abusive strat, which is EXACTLY why supply depot before rax has been added to the game, because any terran could kill a protoss in 3 minutes with how abusive 7rax marines + bunkers are. I stopped it obviously when I spotted his scv and he reverted to normal play, but you cant tell me something fishy wasnt up when he sends one of his first 6 scvs to my base..

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Take note that you also sent your first probe to his base. By that same logic you were trying to cheese him. Cannon rushing is much more deadly and faster, so could it be possible, given the long walking distance, that he was trying to see if you were going to cheese? Besides don't you play random (could be wrong here, your sig says you play random, so I just assumed). With such long walking distances if you don't know what your opponent is (ie, him playing random or you not checking what race he was in the loading page), early intel is VITAL. Besides, you don't HAVE to chase his SCV to prevent it, its not like a pylon that takes 17 seconds to build. Its a barracks that takes 60 seconds to build and a bunker, which takes 35 (probably only 30 at the time, since this match seems a little older?). There is plenty enough time for your first scouting probe to be in his base, notice that something is up, and for you to check your base. All it takes is 1 probe to kill a defenseless building SCV, you can even send 2 if you REALLY want it dead. Kill the SCV and the rush fails, even if the rax is complete and he started making marines, your gateway should nearly be done and you can chrono your zealot and kill the building off with a zealot and a few probes.

And yes I am familiar with the strategy, and it's very flimsy, considering that you can just kill an SCV and the whole thing is dead in the water. It's only deadly if you don't scout and never look around your base in the early game. Played against it many times and the only time it killed me, was when I was greedy and went the forge fast expand build against terran. And I don't believe that THIS build is the sole reason they did that nerf. IMO proxy rax with nitro reapers is the primary culprit, because its far more deadly and doesn't have to be built in your base to kill you. This build might have been a participant in the nerf, but it is definitely not the sole reason for it.

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The Factory wasnt in my vision range at all until I went over there with my units, and I even had 2 stalker and 2 zealot there and couldnt even come close to catching the hellion.

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Two zealots were there only because they had just poped out of the gateways. The rest of your army was @ the watchtower, so had to walk half way across the map to deal with the factory. Personally, I don't understand why they were there in the first place. If you were so afraid of M&M balls with stim and concussive shells, why would you put a small group of attacking units at the watchtower? They would just be fodder, and you would have lost that many units when it came to defense. There is no reason for them to be there, unless you were planning to attack him. A probe and pylon is enough to scout out an incoming attack, without sac'ing any attacking units. If he had done an actual committed attack, with a medivac drop and marines/marauders in your base, instead of a hellion, you would have died because your units were needlessly far away.

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A Hellion is instantly guaranteed at least 2-3 hits on scvs earlygame when you float a factory over, because protoss doesnt have enough units to stop it (unless the terran micros horribly) .. How is that balanced?

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Not in the least bit true. You only had two gateways, cuz you were void rushing, and were not constantly producing out of them. So of course your unit count is going to be pretty bad when the hellion pops. Let alone that you didn't even start research on warp gates until after the 7:00 mark of the game, which is usually when it finishes! So yes, of course you didn't have the units to stop it dead, but that's not a terran imbalance. He didn't even rush it into your base, he floated it up and down his base for a bit, then sent it up to yours.

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So that was lame, not to mention he was NOT expanding, doing that + building up a marauder ball army.. I had no other choice but to counter, because if I expo'd he would run me over once his marauders reached 10 (no ground army can deal with that much marauders) and if I attacked without voids, his bunkers (which are salvagable for 100%) would hold every ground unit no problem, then he can cancel them to get 100 minerals back even if they had 10 life left.

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Did you even watch this game at all? Because you make a lot of wild accusations and sweeping generalizations, but the game shows something completely different. He expands at 8:48 at which point he has 4 Marauders, 5 Marines, 1 Viking, 1 Raven. He was in no position to push against anything. He never once scaned, or even sent an SCV to your natural, if you had fast expanded, or even just normal expanded instead of teching to VR's you would have been just fine.

He only had 1 rax with a techlab and the other with a reactor, there was no way he was getting this magical "10" marauder army (which is BS by the way, not the army the label that 10 marauder's auto win) early enough to do anything. You barely built probes, you didn't expand, you didn't constantly produce units. He didn't back you into a corner, you backed yourself into a corner, one that only VR's could possibly get you out of.It's not that I don't agree that marauders are kinda imba, or that the VR nerf wasn't heavy. It's just that your getting yourself into a frenzy and putting up mental barriers that this terran was doing something that he wasn't. And yes, its probably true that terran are imba, but play good, get your fundamentals down, then when you can't win, THAT is when you complain.

Okey, lets be honest, Protoss doesn't have the speed of Zerg nor the defence of Terrans. Protoss has just a slow ball of units that needs to be bigger then the opponents to win. Fun race! ^^

In my oppinion Terrans has a hard counter to everything, thats whats making them so hard to beat. Not to mention the EMP, I feel like a right placed EMP makes an 200 army into a 100 army in one shot xD

Have never used the VR much late game so I dont have much to say to that other than that I don't look forward to the next patch, wonder whats being nerfed next :S