Toss puts cannons at my ramp, walling me off.
I baneling bust out, but he has an expansion already. I can't run in speedlings because he has cannons in his mineral line.
What do?
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Toss puts cannons at my ramp, walling me off.
I baneling bust out, but he has an expansion already. I can't run in speedlings because he has cannons in his mineral line.
What do?
Scout him earlier and start powering the Zerglings. You should make it a habit to check the back of your nat for proxy action. If he builds cannons en-masse, that's expensive for him.
If the cannons were on the low end of the ramp can just slowly spread your creep and put a spine crawler at the top and break the seal. In the meantime while you are trapped inside just macro heavily with probes. Completely saturate your minerals and gas. Quick tech to lair. Don't focus on making too many attacking units. Possibly put down a second hatchery in your own base to boost production. Then get mutalisks as soon as you can to harass him. The toss player would most likely seal you in to take an expo safely. So by the tactic i mentioned you would have more than saturated your main, quick tech to mutalisks to harass him then when you break the seal take your expo. Take a third base even if you have the minerals for it. Once you break the seal the toss player is unlikely to attack you since he's expecting a strong push coming out. Be sure to get overseers to kill any observers. If it all goes according to plan by that tactic i mentioned then you'll soon catch up on expos and outexpand him while you constantly harass with mutalisks. Kill exposed pylons. Don't go for the mineral line if he has cannons there. Keep killing exposed buildings then he will go mass cannons everywhere and turtle up (most likely). Thus he has wasted a lot of minerals on static defence. Then rush in with ultralisks or something. Tactic mostly focuses on you getting a really strong economy and overtaking him economywise and using mutalisk harass to make him completely on the defensive. This tactic was mentioned briefly by Day9 in the FundayMonday: No Queens daily.
Gradius: I scouted with my 10th drone, and by the time his forge started, I already had my pool building, and he had 2 cannons by the time I got out 6 lings. Kinda hard to power lings after the fact.
As for JackHammer, I will TOTALLY try that next time. The only problem is if he goes Stalkers with blink, makes it difficult to harass with mutas. If he does that, what should I do?
If he does that then he prob went mass stalkers. Mutaling would work nicely. E.g. Attack the back with mutalisks when his stalkers are at the front of his expo. Have the lings at the front and when you see them stalkers move....run back with the mutalisks. Rush in with lings into his main if possible to do dmg. This relies on a lot of luck of nothing blocking choke into main. Or you push the front of his expo. Get his stalkers to commit to a blink forward to catch the mutalisks. Then SURPRISE zergling surround. But best to just keep making mutalisks every so often. Like start with 5-6 then slowly build it up while not sacrificing drones. Keep harassing. Once he gets blink then you adjust your timing. Retreat sooner. Just keep his stalkers on the defensive until you have a huge economy and get infestors with lings or ultralisks. Fungal stops blink now.:P Perfect scenario is you push in a bit with mutas at his natural where his stalkers would be. Retreat. He blinks to catch you. Let him move out more. And by the second blink he would be way exposed then attack his stalkers then with fungal and lings if you haven't spread the creep that far for ultras to rush into the stalkers in time. But honestly that tactic relies on some awesome micro, skill, perfect positioning and an overeager opponent.
The safest tactic is to just keep harassing stopping his stalkers from moving out of his base. Stop him from getting a third base then just overpower him with your huge economy lead.
What would be worse is if he anticipates mutalisk harass when he seals you in so he goes for mass phoenixes. That would make the whole game much harder for you. Would be very hard to pressure or harass him with mutalisks. You might think to counter with mass lings since he invested a lot into AtA phoenixes. But remember he has one base more than you and if you fail at this push he will slowly take the lead and win.
I would think in that situation it would be best to just powerdrone, switch to roach hydra and keep some mutalisks and be prepared to emergency make corruptors if he goes voids or carriers. And if you see he has a huge ground army be sure not to be completely defenseless if he decides to just let you rape his main with mutas while he rushes to kill you. Having 2-3 queens while you're sealed might be a good idea. 2-3 queens on 2 hatcheries in your main. Can handle him possibly going straight to voids. Be sure to test it out with someone. A protoss practice partner. So in case it happens to you again you know exactly what to do.
Well since you baneling busted the contain then you should of gotten an expansion ASAP since the cannons were a huge investment and that is minerals not spent on army. Harass any expansions he obtained with your lings when you were contained.
What alot of players have been doing its putting a drone on patrol at the bottom of their ramp to prevent this from happening. If they contain gets down anyway, some zerg tend to quick tech to hydra to break the contain and place their overlords between their base and the opponents base to spread creep so that the hydra can get there quickly. If they go for an expand and blinking stalkers hydras will destroy that. Either way you break contain, expand to your natural asap. Also remember, that if they are pretty walled off and expanding themselves you can take that drone that you sent to scout with and make an expo somewhere besides your natural. If they are focused on macro they wont have that many units to attack with. It will not always work, but something to keep in the back of your head if this happens again.
Can we see some replays?
You should also grab 3-4 drones off mining to attack the pylon. Keep your overlord by your ramp too so you can do that asap.
Gotta remember to use that overlord. Terran: over the natural to stop bunker rush. Protoss: over he choke to stop Cannon contain.
The replay may or may not have been written over; I didn't save it. Suffice it to say, I busted out, got my expansion, then tried to see if I could ling harass but he had cannons in his expansion. Don't exactly remember what units I made, but his humongous stalker ball ate me before I could respond.
Every time i wall off a zerg after my expo I go 6 gates,get lots of sentries some lots and seal the deal.No way harassing with mutas.Just put a drone on ur choke so he can't put the pylons on the right position to block the choke make lots of lings and you will be fine.Although i doubt he will even try if ur holding the choke.Don't tell anyone I'm a protoss player ;) i dont want zergs to start handling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackhammerIV