Starcraftwire/incgamer - Lategame Protoss/Terran Gameplay Impressions

I put these in the beta repository. I wanted to share the input as a lot of new impressions from difference sources than Mr. Minty came out :) I also wanted to see if there was good discussion to be had. Be sure to glance at the repository, I sometimes ninjaupdate it.


incgamer: --> Protoss Late Game Experience
incgamer: --> Terran Late Game Experience

Seems like the Archon's attack has finally got some polishing:
http://starcraft.incgamers.com/galle...519/archon.jpg

Thank you Gifted,:) is there an Zerg one?

Wow, I can't believe how exciting it's sounding to play as the Terran. Really digging their versatility and variety of options. Wish they could give the same sort of TLC to the Zerg which honestly don't sound interesting at all. They need more options and strategies available to them, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Seems like the Archon's attack has finally got some polishing:

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It's funny you should say that because that's actually from a now-old screenshot, back when Archons still had legs. Incidently, I think Archons both looked and attacked 'cooler' back then :P.

The Engineering bay gets quite a few neat new things to research. We already heard about the Neosteel Frame bunker upgrade (increase capacity) a while back, but the building armour upgrade is news to me.

Also, they seem to confirm that Vikings in mech form can be carried in Dropships which is amusing to say the least :P. I'm also happy to hear that the impression these guys had was that Vikings are effective in Mech form. They're one of my favourite units in SC2. :]

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Seems like the Archon's attack has finally got some polishing:
http://starcraft.incgamers.com/galle...519/archon.jpg

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Not really. Most of the screenshots in that article are very old. The one you linked specifically is probably about a year old already. The archon model has already been retouched and the effect looks completely different (looks a lot more curved in a few of the newer screenshots and looks less like lightning from Warcraft 3)

The Planetary Fortress gets an upgrade from the E.Bay. Apparently, it gets a +1 range increase and turrets.

I still don't think that's competitive with the OCC, but it's something.

Wow, for once someone actually thinks the viking is good. That's good news.

9 range? Wow, that's long, I'm potentially seeing micro against shorter ranged air units.
Also, he confirmed for me my question about whether walker mode vikings could be loaded or not. 8 Vikings in a medivac? Wtf? That doesn't make much sense IMO.

Wouldn't it be neat if Vikings could launch from a Medivac in air mode (particularly if there's no ground)? That gives a new name for "Carrier" ;)

lol, it's going to be the new way of completely surprising your enemy by hiding your viking numbers.

Just wait, you'll see it in an SC2 pimpest plays. Some gosu dude is gonna send like 5 dropships and his enemy will think it's like 40 marines, instead it's 40 vikings.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Wouldn't it be neat if Vikings could launch from a Medivac in air mode (particularly if there's no ground)? That gives a new name for "Carrier" ;)

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That would be damn cool. Great for defending a lone medivac from air assault and for surprise attacks. It's unrealistic as hell but still would be awesome to have.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

The Planetary Fortress gets an upgrade from the E.Bay. Apparently, it gets a +1 range increase and turrets.

I still don't think that's competitive with the OCC, but it's something.

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SCArmory reported on that one (among others). Its called Hi-Sec Auto Tracking and increases the range of: Missile Turrets, Auto-Turrets, Defensive Drones and the Planetary Fortress by +1.

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Originally Posted by SCWire

...it (Salvage) takes 5 seconds to deconstruct and needs with no interaction of an SCV...

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Well....that answers that.....Bunker push 2.0 FTW!!!

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

9 range? Wow, that's long, I'm potentially seeing micro against shorter ranged air units.

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9 range is insane! They went crazy, and are giving 9 range to everything! :p. With that range and attack, no doubt they're going to be very powerfull on the sky. Even if their ground mode is for harassing only, or escaping AtA units, it will be very worthy to build them.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Also, he confirmed for me my question about whether walker mode vikings could be loaded or not. 8 Vikings in a medivac? Wtf? That doesn't make much sense IMO.

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Yep, it makes sense to be able to transport them, as they're ground units when on the ground, but 8? I hope that's only because it's beta, as they don't look as small as a Marine.
It would be cool if they could survive even if the transport is destroyed (maybe damaged, but alive, they're air units, after all). But maybe they could get inside bases too easily with that.

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Originally Posted by GRUNT

It's funny you should say that because that's actually from a now-old screenshot, back when Archons still had legs. Incidently, I think Archons both looked and attacked 'cooler' back then :P.

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Seriously? I seen something, but i didn't think that was the legs. The glow hides them almost completely.
So, they actually modified the ray into the 1 pixel thing we seen later? Weird way to go...

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Originally Posted by Caliban113

Well....that answers that.....Bunker push 2.0 FTW!!!

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Pretty much everyone up to and including Dustin himself has commented on how OP Salvage is currently and it looks like it'll be getting the business end of the nerf stick at some point.

I'd also like to see cancelling buildings being nerfed back to the regular SC1 75% rather than 100%

What really excites me I think is the news about the small little upgrades you can get, like +1 turret range, neosteel frame for bunkers, etc. It just feels more like multipurpose global upgrades is the way to go to help give incentives for customizing and mixing armies.

on the protoss one, talking about colosus's, he mentioned "Grrrr" playing? wtf, Grrrr is playing SC2 in germany (or wherever they were)??


Edit nevermind, guess its some german dude using his screenname. Doh, was hoping it was "THE" Grrrr

@Norfindel
That's the old Archon model....

now what is this point defense ability for the raven??? is it like the predator's ability to intercept and shoot down incoming projectiles?

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In addition you can research the cloaking field for the Banshee. You can also research Hunter Seeker Missiles and the “Materials” upgrade for the Raven, which increases the lifetime of the auto turrets, point defense drones and the HSM.

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http://starcraft.incgamers.com/artic...experience/P3/

Exactly, the Point Defense Drone can intercept projectiles using energy, said to be 100 max and 10 energy per intercepted missile.


-Psi

@perfecttear - Zerg is "coming soon" according to their website, I'll keep an eye out for it buddy :)

@skyze - It was a member of the website team. HOWEVER, Confirmed by Tasteless interview that Grrr is practicing for SC2 and hoping to make a comeback in some form. Not neccessarily hardcore pro, but he is going to be playing hard enough for the Korean betting markets... at least that's his goal. I think it's a link in the beta link repository, don't remember.

Nice articles

EMP only does 100 damage to shields? Hardly worth it, I predict it will continue to only be used against casters (yes I understand they want the ability to work against all races equally but I disagree that that is necessary).

Well, the ghost does come much sooner than the science vessel. Although I think they cost about the same gas, 255 or something like that?

I find it curious why EMP was nerfed, but psi storm was buffed. Smart casting makes spells easier to use, so nerfing makes sense, but it's not consistent in this case.

Alright so the SC wiki says it costs 50 gas.

So there you have it. Ghosts are way freaken cheaper than science vessels. Giving EMP the same power would be imba.

Hrm... inconsistent data then about it's cost.

The ghost on SC2armory was 100/200 before they went out there on June 22nd. It is now 50/150 according to sc2armory. I would like to believe this more as Gearvosh stated he would update all the stats as part of his trip intention.

On another note about the emp nerf... I think it is consistent. If you are going to have ghosts, you will create them much like you'd create High Templar. I expect at least 3-4 in an assault force. That means you can have at your disposal 8 EMPs theoretically. If emp still had the "remove all" Then a majority of those EMPs would never be neccessary. I think that this is actually a good counterbalance of psi storm in a sense. You have to use storm to kill some units, and 2 storms to kill a majority. 3-4 storms kill larger units. I think it's a good idea to give that sort of feel to EMP.

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Originally Posted by Gifted

@perfecttear - Zerg is "coming soon" according to their website, I'll keep an eye out for it buddy :)

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I hope it's not a Blizzard "soon" they are talking about;)
Lol, this is the first time somebody called me buddy :p

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Ghosts are way freaken cheaper than science vessels.

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Even if they're not, they're way earlier. And can cloak, which Vessels can't. And can EMP while cloaked.

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EMP only does 100 damage to shields? Hardly worth it

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There aren't that many units that have more than 100 Shields. Not even the Immortal, the prime non-caster target for EMP, has more than 100.

EMP is now on the very unit that can cloak and launch nukes. Launch nuke + a couple EMP before the nuke hits = GG Nexus expansion.

I think Snipe is going to be an awkward ability though. It's just a high damage shot, something a Siege tank could provide. To me Snipe was better when it was the caster-killer ability, but now it's just a high powered shot that uses energy. It just feels like a tacked-on ability with no real purpose. There aren't many high-priority targets that can't be killed by more conventional means.

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I think Snipe is going to be an awkward ability though. It's just a high damage shot, something a Siege tank could provide.

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Siege Tank can't cloak or move as efficiently as the ghost.

But yeah, my favourite version of the spell was 40 (to any organic) +40 to light targets.Perfect for caster killing, but also good as a damage buffer.

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EMP is now on the very unit that can cloak and launch nukes. Launch nuke + a couple EMP before the nuke hits = GG Nexus expansion.

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Nukes only do 500 damage to buildings now, so you'll have to nuke a nexus twice to kill it even if it had 0 shields.

As for a hive don't even bother. You'd have to nuke it 5 times just to kill it.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Nukes only do 500 damage to buildings now, so you'll have to nuke a nexus twice to kill it even if it had 0 shields.

As for a hive don't even bother. You'd have to nuke it 5 times just to kill it.

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If they made nukes more accessible and at the same time less destructive I'd be a very happy person. Nukes were, in my opinion, the pinnacle of SC. Successfully pulling off a devastating nuke on your opponent was an exciting rush. I'd like to see a higher prevalence of these in SC2.

Last I heard nukes can be fired from inside bunkers. I'm not too fond of this, but with a reduction in effectiveness it makes it more bearable.

It's not like a bunker is going to be more effective than a cloaked ghost.

"OMFG WHERE'S THE BUNKER?"

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

It's not like a bunker is going to be more effective than a cloaked ghost.

"OMFG WHERE'S THE BUNKER?"

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Yes, but a cloaked ghost can be detected and targeted for death much quicker than a bunker can be destroyed along with the ghost inside. Not only that, with salvage currently returning 100% resources what's to stop people from building multiple bunkers to hide the location of the one true ghost?

I don't know about you, but if I scan a ledge near my base and find a friggin bunker up there with ghost present which I cannot destroy in time to stop the nuke I'm gonna be pissed.

Part of the thrill with nukes is trying to find the culprit or hoping the player doesn't discover you. With the bunker, even if you're discovered they still need enough firepower to prevent it from landing.

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Yes, but a cloaked ghost can be detected and targeted for death much quicker than a bunker can be destroyed along with the ghost inside. Not only that, with salvage currently returning 100% resources what's to stop people from building multiple bunkers to hide the location of the one true ghost?

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Yeah you have a point. We'll have to wait till beta to see I suppose.

For the EMP issue, remember it also still strips a caster unit of all energy. IMO that will be the main purpose of the spell, rather than the shield damage. Although it's true as Nicol Bolas pointed out that most units don't even have 100 shields...

Yeah.

Also, you'll notice that in professional games that pros don't EMP to drain shields.

They never do. The whole purpose of EMP is to drain high templars and arbiters of their energy. Shields die fast enough as is so it's a waste of energy.

However, IIRC Blizzard has stated shields work differently now, and don't take 100% damage so... maybe EMP will actually be used for shields now. Especially for units like the immortal and such.

And yeah, again as Nicol pointed out not a lot of units even have 100 shields.

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Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade

For the EMP issue, remember it also still strips a caster unit of all energy. IMO that will be the main purpose of the spell, rather than the shield damage. Although it's true as Nicol Bolas pointed out that most units don't even have 100 shields...

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Ghosts are going to send High Templars home crying.

As a Protoss fan, the new Ghosts sound very scary to me.

If you want something mobile, make a bunch of banshees to 'snipe' soft targets. Ghosts might as well use EMP vs casters. Their damage is significantly better than before too, I don't see why they need this ability other than being an APM sink with a little reward.

Again, there's no targets worthy of being sniped that can't be dealt with an EMP.

Not really.

Mutalisks, Marines, Marauders, Reapers, Dark Templars and Infestors can all be easily dealt with snipe. And EMP won't work on them (except for the infestor, but why EMP him when 2 snipes will easily kill it?)

Even workers might be worthwhile to use snipe on if the situation presents itself.

Although for drones and probes the ghosts can just 2 shot kill it.