Patch 1.1

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Originally Posted by Gali

Marauders need a nerf but really people stay calm. Nerf them too hard or remove them and bio is not viable past 5 minutes or so. Teir 1.5 bling, tier 2.5 tank, and tier three colossi or templar, annhilate marines, and ghosts cant fix that. That would limit terrans to some kind of mech except for timing pushes and lower gameplay depth.

It would especially kill the depth in tvt, unless you want broodwar style 40 minutes siegetank viking battles.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

They should be critical, as critical as making workers. Even low-skilled players of SC1 couldn't just ignore macro. Why should they be able to in SC2?

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Obviously, they cannot ignore macro, but the "macro mechanics" should be only one aspect of it. If a player casts Chrono Boost twice as the other, what kind of micro would offset that?

Anyways, what i mean, is that the macro mechanics are now too central, and it isn't clear if it boost a race, or just offsets its nerfs. Take for example the Thermal Lance upgrade. The Colossus is useless without it, but it takes forever to research. Would take so long if Chrono Boost wasn't into the game, or they did make it slow on purpose so that you can click a few buttons more.

Seriously. Just reduce Marauder damage to 6+10 instead of 10+10, or remove their ability to Stim.

I really think removing marauder stim is needed, marauders have concussive shell, there is no need for them to have stim, especially considering they do 20 dmg vs armored, un-sieged tanks do 25...

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Seriously. Just reduce Marauder damage to 6+10 instead of 10+10, or remove their ability to Stim.

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I agree on the stim part. They should do great damage to armored units, but for example, they win Roaches just by auto-attack. And with stim and slow at the same time, together with Roach's range of 3, you can kite them and they can't even touch you, like only winning by auto-attacking wasn't enough... :rolleyes:
Same goes for Zealots and Lings, units that suppose to counter them!

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That's whats bad about it. What if i don't use chrono boost on gates?
Maybe I'm totally macro player and only use it on workers, why should I now must use it with the zealot reduced build time?

Any other way to fix it is fine, for example gateway build time increase, warp gate research increased, but not the time of the zealots.

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It is not like that you must, you don't need to do anything. You must do it only if we are talking about 6 pool, and if my knowledge serves me well, P players do it today also vs. 6 pool, so what is different?
Gateway build time increase isn't fine because that only works for first gateway and then you can pump Zealots, and the real problem is early game rushes and pushes with mass Zealots. It is too difficult to stop with Zerg player.

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Originally Posted by flak4321

My thoughts :) are:

1) general notes: a) The patch will come after the tournament
b) @Norfindel: I agree some Protoss upgrades/researches are agonizingly slow

2) Terran fixes:
a) The marauder nerf should be the loss of the concussive shells and -10 hp plus a small buff (+1) to the marauder's attack speed
b) Siege tank changes: i. hp +10, ii. both damages -5, iii. New Upgrade: Carnage class shells: 200/200 cost, 45 sec time, allows siege mode splash to damage air, increases splash radius +1, researched from Tech Lab, but requires Fusion Core and Armory
c) Thors only require Armory. Can be double produced w/ reactor. time increased by 25.
d) Viking: -1 range for +1 to 1.5 movement speed, -0.1 accleration

3) 3 Zerg changes:
a) Roach: +1 start range, -20 hp
b) Infestor mods: i. Infested Terran energy increased so that each infestor can launch only 2 at a time, ii. Infestor pop usage increased to 4 or even 6 control.
c) Spawn larvae overhaul: Spell will require a minimum of 2 hatches built to cast as it will now spawn larvae on 2 hatches at once.
d) ling: i. build time increased by +5, ii. ling movement speed to require Lair

4) Protoss changes:
a) Chrono boost duration doubled, cost to 30-35 energy, speed increase up by 25%
b) Gateways/Warpgates can no longer be boosted after construction completes.
c) Warpgate i. upgrade cost upped to 100/100, ii. cooldown increased to 45, iii. unit warp-in time increased by 3 seconds
d) Zealot: i. charge research time reduced from 140 to 115
ii. build time increased by 5 seconds
e) Mothership no longer requires direct resources to build because it transforms literally from a nexus. Player will lose a nexus to create a mother ship. Vortex range increased to envelop everything on screen (about 10)
f) Phoenix damage +1, hp +50
g) Carrier gains second capacity upgrade so it can carry 12 Interceptors
h) Immortal gets a +1 range buff

5) Battlecruiser note: I think this is balanced pretty nicely betweeen corruptors, void rays, and bcs.

Thoughts?

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http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...e-facepalm.jpg

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Originally Posted by flak4321

e) Mothership no longer requires direct resources to build because it transforms literally from a nexus. Player will lose a nexus to create a mother ship. Vortex range increased to envelop everything on screen (about 10)

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Oh thank God.

I thought you were serious for a second there.

Alright guys, perhaps my initial entry into this conversation was in bad form. Lol. The double facepalm was warranted. This is what happens when one types before one really thinks.

The question is, do we really need to change anything? The marauder? I agree that either stim or shells should go or be reduced in effectiveness. This would help Toss players, but would weaken Terran bio vs Zerg ground. We'd have to nerf the roach again, which would require a nerf to the Immortal, which would require another nerf to the marauder and so on. You can't really change one at this point without changing the other two.

The colossus is fine as is. Sure, a buff to the lance upgrade time would be helpful, but if you got enough army variety, this is a very small factor. Use VRs and chargelots w/ your colossi at least. A few HTs and/or Dts don't hurt.

When the hell is the patch coming out?

*Looks at magic ball*

"When it won't interfere with pro tournaments."

Why don't they set a date for the patch release so that tournaments know when to reschedule