Was Tassadar really Tassadar?

With all the complaints people have made about voice work, the one that really stands out for me is Tassadar. It isn't just that the voice is horribly distorted, but it also lacks the very unique cadence of Tassadar's speech that was so nice to listen to in the original game. What if the difference was intentional?
Because I watch so much animation I am very good at identifying voices I've heard before, or similar voices which sometimes indicate that one character is another in disguise. So I started thinking about what other voices Tassadar sounds like. I'll have to play that level again to be sure, but I think he sounds like the Overmind. What if the Overmind is the one that partially survived, and was choosing to create a projection of Tassadar to earn Zeratul's trust?

Or what if they used a different voice actor?

I wished they let him RIP so that we wouldn't have had to hear him again- mention him, yes, but not hear or see him again. Suppose we'll just have to wait and see what they have planned.

The Overmind was performed by Aldaris' VA, and Tassadar was played by Worf (Michael Dorn).

The only thing I thought about was that, why did Tassadar have to be the only survivor? Couldn't the Overmind technically live, since he was also infused with Templar and Void energies? Perhaps their spirits could have merged?

But ultimately, I don't think that's what happened here.

I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar.

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That's when the whole campaign lost it for me....:(

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar.

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Originally Posted by broodmywarcraft

That's when the whole campaign lost it for me....:(

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I'll have to admit, it was the first point in the game where I literally cringed.

(Second time was during Raynor's speech to the faceless dominion marines that we know nothing nor care nothing about, while clouds conveniently drift away and reveal sunshine in corny over-the-top anime style)

Whenever I see, or even think about the ending cinematic, where Jim is holding Kerrigan and walking off into the sunset, I have to fight back a slight wave of nausea; but oh well......

In regards the OP, IIRC the official lore regarding the nature of the Khala, as well as regarding the purposesof the templar archives sort of hints at the possibility of a 'force ghost' being possible.

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Originally Posted by phazonjunkie

Whenever I see, or even think about the ending cinematic, where Jim is holding Kerrigan and walking off into the sunset, I have to fight back a slight wave of nausea; but oh well......

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sometimes "happy endings" (ie not yet definitive end starcraft 2) occur, there must always not be a bittersweet or tragic end

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In regards the OP, IIRC the official lore regarding the nature of the Khala, as well as regarding the purposesof the templar archives sort of hints at the possibility of a 'force ghost' being possible

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yes, but Khala only keeps save memories, I guess that makes Tassadar special is that he managed to keep his mind intact

Perhaps it's the spirits of all the dead Zerg and Protoss ever merged and talking?

Well, Tassadar claims that he's never tasted death...but quickly waves that off as a story for another day. We know that the Xel'Naga intended for the Zerg and Protoss to eventually merge to become their next incarnation...but this was intended to be a significant time in the future.

Tassadar and the Overmind were both extremely advanced when it came to their respective races...and Tassadar seemed to express a very strong, almost intimate, respect for the Overmind's sacrifice...on a level that almost seemed as though he, himself, lived it. Again, however, this was left vague...

It's possible that the two did merge...becoming the first newborn Xel'Naga in the process that was truly intended by the Xel'Naga to begin with...though, still, sped along by the actions forced upon them...the conflict that never should have been. We'll have to see for ourselves in the next installments...but I personally think the resulting hybridization between the two would prove to be quite the "Sage-like" character...when it fully presents itself for what it is. Both the Overmind and Tassadar were wise and exceedingly intelligent beings...both holding an almost "grandfather" mentality. That comforting elder who passes down wisdom to the young...they, in my eyes, already seemed like two halves of a whole that reflected one another for their respective races.

I don't think Blizzard think about such subtleties as using the Overmind's voice actor for Tassadar as a slight hint at what's ahead in the story. If it turns out like that, I'd say co-incidence.

As for who it actually is, I'd put my money on it really being Tassadar. If Blizzard had thought of something more interesting, I feel like they would have hinted more strongly at it. My favourite explanation for Tassadar not being dead (which is a fact that I loathe) is the he and the Overmind did fuse in some way and have thus begun towards the rebirth of the Xel'Naga. But I don't think it's what's happening.

JK

Jelly, Tenebrae - one pet hypothesis/plot point I've toyed with is that the essence of Tassadar and the Overmind would fuse and be contained within the Khaydarin crystal around which the Overmind developed. Given that each individual embodied the racial consciousness of their respective races - the Hive Mind and the Khala - this could be used to great effect for or against either Zerg or Protoss, or used as a catalyst for the development for the Hybrids.


This was the central plot around a campaign I worked on before StarCraft II was released... I never got it finished... ;_;

There's no evidence at all that the Overmind & Tassadar fused to become a Xel'Naga - first time I heard this theory. The Overmind is dead, but Tassadar is alive because of the nature of the Khala. Much like Adun, Tassadar probably ascended to a higher state of reality by gathering so much energy, kind of compared to like how an electron goes to a higher energy state when it gets excited.

My theory is that Tassadar now lives in the psionic matrix, a sort of energy imprint like what you have on Warp Prism crystals, except alive.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar.

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''Tassadar! but... you died...(pause for another long pause)

it could have been different...''sigh''

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

The Overmind was performed by Aldaris' VA, and Tassadar was played by Worf (Michael Dorn).

The only thing I thought about was that, why did Tassadar have to be the only survivor? Couldn't the Overmind technically live, since he was also infused with Templar and Void energies? Perhaps their spirits could have merged?

But ultimately, I don't think that's what happened here.

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The original VA was Michael Gough (Cain in Diablo). As much as I enjoyed Michael Dorn on Star Trek, I miss Gough. But yeah - in a way I'm glad to see Tassadar returned (and at least he got a unique model!) but I wish it had been better explained/worked into the story.

~LoA

Of course there's no evidence towards an Overmind and Tassadar merger...but there's no evidence against such either. Tassadar remains quite the enigma at this point, in regards to what transpired to him upon that "sacrifice" and what he's ascended into. It's all purely speculation based upon my own personal preference...the possibility is there, even if it's an improbability.

What better firstborn Xel'Naga though aye? A Tassadar and Overmind hybridization...truly a "born" leader for the new incarnation of the Xel'Naga if I ever thought of one.

You can see that this theory can't be true just by looking at what the Xel'Naga cycle is trying to accomplish. The new Xel'Naga were supposed to be formed through a long and drawn out process of natural merging of species. Furthermore, they're supposed to yield living physical creatures, not "force ghosts" or any kind of void entities (i.e. voice in the darkness). The true Xel'Naga cycle is anything but a quick mashing together of the two species - you can read about it in DT Twilight. If Tassadar and the Overmind did indeed merge to become new Xel'Naga, then they would be an abomination, much like the hybrids. But of course, if Blizzard wants to do it, they'll ignore existing lore and do it anyways.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

You can see that this theory can't be true just by looking at what the Xel'Naga cycle is trying to accomplish. The new Xel'Naga were supposed to be formed through a long and drawn out process of natural merging of species. Furthermore, they're supposed to yield living physical creatures, not "force ghosts" or any kind of void entities (i.e. voice in the darkness). The true Xel'Naga cycle is anything but a quick mashing together of the two species - you can read about it in DT Twilight. If Tassadar and the Overmind did indeed merge to become new Xel'Naga, then they would be an abomination, much like the hybrids. But of course, if Blizzard wants to do it, they'll ignore existing lore and do it anyways.

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It's not like they haven't done it already :confused:

But man, all these theories and speculations are giving me a brain aneurysm.

I miss simpllicity :(

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Originally Posted by Gradius

You can see that this theory can't be true just by looking at what the Xel'Naga cycle is trying to accomplish. The new Xel'Naga were supposed to be formed through a long and drawn out process of natural merging of species. Furthermore, they're supposed to yield living physical creatures, not "force ghosts" or any kind of void entities (i.e. voice in the darkness). The true Xel'Naga cycle is anything but a quick mashing together of the two species - you can read about it in DT Twilight. If Tassadar and the Overmind did indeed merge to become new Xel'Naga, then they would be an abomination, much like the hybrids. But of course, if Blizzard wants to do it, they'll ignore existing lore and do it anyways.

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Currently, we have absolutely no idea as to what the Xel'Naga are, nor what their new incarnations are meant to be. They could be physical, they could be psionic, they could be a hybridization of the two...there's nothing that states anything in regards to their nature beyond the current Hybrids being an abomination in comparison to what was truly intended.

Granted though, it's quite true that the process of merger was suppose to take place well into the future, but Tassadar and the Overmind both represented the strongest of their respective races. It's possible that both of these two entities progressed far more rapidly than the Xel'Naga anticipated...exceeding expectations due to the forced conditions placed upon them. Tassadar did learn to channel both energies of the Void and Khala in order to defeat the Overmind...while the Overmind, itself, strived to perfect itself through the assimilation of countless species in it's quest to defeat the Protoss...including the psioniclly gifted Terrans.

Though it's obviously not what the Xel'Naga wanted, it's possible that this method did speed along the progress of these two entities, even if the rest of their race is still far behind, permitting them the ability to ascend into the new incarnation of the Xel'Naga. The "Tassadar" we seen may have been no more than a hallucination created by the new entity in order to not frighten Zeratul out of not absorbing the vision that it needed to pass along... Had it presented itself as it truly looked...you would have had Zeratul very untrustworthy of the creature...especially knowing that the Overmind was part of it.

Either way, as stated, all just speculation on my part...but there's nothing going against the possibility yet. The two were well ahead of their time, products of a forced situation that might have furthered the goals of the Fallen One...but also made these two rapidly progress when they would have, otherwise, progressed slowly due to having not had the other to push them into exceeding their former states to destroy the other.

It's just as possible that they're a Hybrid that's free of the Fallen One's control. It's also possible that the Overmind is dead and gone, and Tassadar somehow survived... It's possible that he pulled a force trick and lives only in "essence".

Many possibilities...but he says he never tasted death, and quickly waves it on. That statement is what makes me wonder.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar.

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I died a little inside when I saw Force Ghost (tm) Tassadar in such a completely pathetic, ill-managed appearance.
I could have accepted it, if it was an epic appearance, when everything was lost, but seriously, casual chatting with Zeratul? Cannot Tassadar just use the Khala to communicate with Artanis (obviously not with Zeratul).

Yeah...

Whatever he is, they could have done much better with his appearance within the campaign. It was just like, "Oh, hai there Tassadar...how's every little old thang?"

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Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Currently, we have absolutely no idea as to what the Xel'Naga are, nor what their new incarnations are meant to be. They could be physical, they could be psionic, they could be a hybridization of the two...there's nothing that states anything in regards to their nature beyond the current Hybrids being an abomination in comparison to what was truly intended.

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It's definitely not spelled out 100% in big bold letters, but a little bit deductive reasoning tells you that:
a) the xel'naga beings that died over zerus were not force ghosts or anything of the like, otherwise they wouldn't have died. since those xel'naga were successful mergers from a previous cycle, we can assume that those type of beings are what xel'naga aim to create.
b) DT Saga twilight said the merger is supposed to be natural. There's nothing natural about a psionic warrior smashing into a hivemind and merging with it. Zamara called the hybrids an abomination because they have nothing of the natural cycle in them, just like this scenario here would.

Also, it's stated in numerous places that the Overmind actually did die. In addition, Blizzard would have to retcon the entire premise of the Tassadar mission, that the Overmind actually did die, but for a reason. I'm pretty sure the only reason people seem to like this theory is because Tassadar's portrait is a reused Archon, which is a merged entity. Bottom line is that this requires breaking of lore, is unparsimonious, and has no evidence to back it up. Blizzard could make it true if they wanted, but they could also make the Xel'Naga are a race of clowns that enjoy juggling in their free time if they wanted.

Now, I don't mean to rip on any of your guys' theorycrafting here, since I definitely appreciate creative thinking, but this kind of theorycrafting is too rampant for my tastes.

A:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Archon

Archons have no physical form, they are purely psionic beings...which is poorly depicted in the unit portrait and model. So, it's perfectly possible that the Xel'Naga were, and are, Force Ghosts...as you put it. Both Archons and Xel'Naga can be destroyed.

Archons are pure energy beings...not a single part of them, lore-wise, is meant to be physical...same with Dark Archons.

B:

Yes, the merger was meant to be natural...and we have no idea what transpired to the two upon impact...just a huge explosion, at the core, from the looks of it...which is practically what happens to an Archon on a smaller scale. Just because something looks violent...does not mean it's always the case. We already know that Archons shed their physical husks...the same could be said of the Overmind upon that impact. Or, in the case of a partially physical and part energy result, the majority of its bulk...seeing as how it's husk was flipping huge.

It said in a lot of places, before SCII, that Tassadar died too. You don't have much of a twist of something making a return, in any form, unless it's already presumed dead. For example...had they left the fate of Fenix with some sort of hint to the possibility of him being alive...it's no where near as shocking when he makes a return.

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Originally Posted by Tenebrae

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Archon

Archons have no physical form, they are purely psionic beings...which is poorly depicted in the unit portrait and model. So, it's perfectly possible that the Xel'Naga were, and are, Force Ghosts...as you put it. Both Archons and Xel'Naga can be destroyed.

Archons are pure energy beings...not a single part of them, lore-wise, is meant to be physical...same with Dark Archons.

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The Overmind assimilated the Xel'Naga into the Zerg gene pool. Clearly the Xel'Naga were not energy beings.

Also, saying that Archons can be destroyed but have no physical form is a contradiction. Archons are not 100% psionic entities. Things such as hallucinations are 100% psionic entities though.

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Yes, the merger was meant to be natural...and we have no idea what transpired to the two upon impact...just a huge explosion from the looks of it, which is practically what happens to an Archon on a smaller scale. Just because something looks violent...does not mean it's always the case.

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I just hope you realize that this ad-hoc slamming together of two entities to form a new Xel'Naga is pretty much the exact opposite of the cycle described in DT Twilight.

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It said in a lot of places, before SCII, that Tassadar died too.

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Such as? If you look at either versions of the Story So Far or the post-mission text in SC vanilla, it confirms the Overmind's death. All it says about Tassadar though is that he sacrificed himself.

I'll concede that it's extremely unlikely they were purely energy beings due to the Overmind having "consumed the greater whole" of the Xel'Naga. They have done some silly things in the past, but it's far more likely that they are a hybridization of psionic and physical beings in a manner akin to the Phoenix creatures.

The Hybrids themselves seem to be partially energy based, but on a far lesser scale...with the Destroyers and Maar seemingly more so than their Reaver counterparts.

As for the Archons, and Dark Archons, they are 100% energy beings in accordance to the lore. It says this within the wiki as well as several other areas, manual included. It also makes the claim that they eventually "burn out", but Ulrezaj has thwarted this and extended his existence indefinitely.

Do you have the specific quote on the DT Twilight? I haven't gotten the third book, only the first two within the series. As for Tassadar, I could have sworn that at least one person said that he gave his life for Auir...in that typical cliche manner. I may, however, have been mistaken...in which cause, it was a poor example for my point, but really doesn't take away from such. It's less of a shock to see someone make a return when they aren't deemed dead to begin with...you always hold out hope for a loved one until the body turns up.