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So I've been thinking about it and I think I have an idea of the units for the expansion barrin any completely new units we haven seen. Terran will get another caster in the spectre. I think the merc building will be buildable and you can hire some mercenaries. I think toss will get another caster in the form of a preserver with new additions to the temp archived or dark shrine. Zerg I'm not sure yet. Maybe brutalisk but I doubt it. What do y'all think?
Maybe they'll decide to add some of the units like the Reaver or Corsair (that we already freaken saw, but they decided not to put them in the editor).
If Blizzard does something so cheap and declares creative bankruptcy none of you will be happy. Bringing back old units is expansions is the stupidest idea anyone here has ever had, and you all need to stfu about it.
Learn proper English buddy, what the hell are you even saying?Quote:
If Blizzard does something so cheap and declares creative bankruptcy none of you will be happy. Bringing back old units is expansions is the stupidest idea anyone here has ever had, and you all need to stfu about it.
A) If Blizzard puts all the SC1 units into WoL and declares creative bankruptcy none of us will be happy... (assuming you're replying to my post).
B) Bringing old units back in the EXPANSION is a stupid idea.
Are you just contradicting yourself?
isn't this a few months early?
Corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis
Why would I be talking about putting old units into Wings? The thread is about expansions. It did not specify if the OP was talking about adding in the missing unit to the Editor like the Dragoon, adding old into the Campaign, or adding in old units to Multiplayer. The OP then started talking about Spectres and Brutalisks, so I could only assume the latter, that the thread is about adding mutiplayer expansion units. You then posted about bringing back old units and putting them into the expansions, once again with no specification of Editor, Campaign, or Multiplayer. Given that the thread was mutiplayer focused, I had to respond in the best way possible, which was to tell you that bringing back old units to include in mutiplayer is the stupidest thing Blizzard could do, it would ruin the game, and Blizzard would prove they've run out of creativity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
... I think this already needs to be closed.
The zerg are going to be the primary focus next, and I cant wait to zombify a colony.
By the way, why does people keep mentioning the Corsair?, I have never seen any trace of that unit in sc2.
The Valkyrie, its Terran counterpart was slated to be there though.
Sorry, misunderstood you then.Quote:
Why would I be talking about putting old units into Wings?
I have no idea what the OP is friggin talking about. Editor? Multiplayer?
I'm assuming it's multiplayer, in which case expecting them to add the spectre is a pretty dumb idea.
But i'll give the benefit of the doubt...
Would you honestly have a cow if they brought Scourge back with Heart of the Swarm? Take it easy, it's just a forum!Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Yes I would, especially since Scourge were one of the two main reasons air was horrible in SC. The other being shitty ATG, which has been remedied a bit in SC2, thank Tassadar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asfastasican
I expect scourge in the campaign but not multi. I'm still a little disappointed with the aerial aspect of the game, but that probably means I just need to get better.
I think it got removed since it was a UED unit (therefore lore discrepant) and the presence of the Viking made it essentially redundant function-wise in the campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurluash
The Scourge is already there, (Sans the sounds)
So it will most likely be in HotS
So air was horrible in Broodwar. Interesting. Please share your expert knowledge on SC:BW.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
.... your attempt at trolling is mediocre at best.
So you're talking about the campaign and editor right?.... I couldn't imagine them adding another dedicated anti-air in multiplayer since each race already has one. I'd gladly swap the corruptor out for scourge though (obviously not going to happen, for so many reasons).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurluash
In Multiplayer I'd rather see the Devourer return. The corruptor is almost the same anyway.
Everyone knows that Scourge absolutely dominate in StarCraft. Most air units are rendered useless by a few cheap Scourge. If they had there stats significantly altered they might be viable in SC2 multiplayer, but paired with weak across the board ATG in Brood War, they nullified the value of everything except Science Vessels, Mutalisks, Corsairs, and Transports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammy
At least the ATG problem is a bit better in SC2 with the Banshee and Void Ray who can actually hurt ground targets unlike the Wraith and Scout.
I'm no troll. I'm just smarter than you.
He is trying to say that Air was easily countered by Scourges, and I agree with him. Thinking about the game on pro level, what Air units did you see in ZvP except Observers? Oh yeah, Corsairs and that is it, because they counter Mutas and Scourges. And in ZvT? Vessels and rarely Valkyries.Quote:
So air was horrible in Broodwar. Interesting. Please share your expert knowledge on SC:BW.
.... your attempt at trolling is mediocre at best.
While in SC2 it is quite different, in ZvP you see Void Rays and Phoenixes, and in ZvT, you see a lot of Vikings, Banshees and Ravens, combined with Dropships, but that is more of their heal than because of an ability to transport.
I hate to defend DS, but in this case I have to agree with part of the statement if not the sentiment and wording. While air wasn't "horrible", and the Scourge wasn't too bad, I've never really enjoyed most air in BW. Zerg were the only of the three races that I found could use air as a major attack force with any practicality. Most air units were better against other air units than against ground, so it made more sense to go ground in most cases. Carriers and BCs were usually impractical due to the cost, while Wraiths and Scouts didn't do very high ATG damage for their cost. Corsairs and Science Vessels were useful for their skills, but that was in support of a ground army. Zerg had Mutas and Guardians which had good ATG so could be used to push through an assault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammy
Conversely, SC2 Zerg have a similar enough airforce, with the BL filling the function of the Guardian and the Corrupter filling the role of the Devourer, with the added bonus that the Corrupters are now what evolve into BLs, meaning that you won't get stuck with useless or nearly useless ATA fighters once you destroy any enemy air units. Phoenixes, like Corsairs, are useful for their skills even if their ATA attack is irrelevant, and the Wraith's useful cloak is given over to the excellent ATG Banshee. The Void Ray and the Viking are both very flexible in their application.
While DS is arrogant and contrarian as always, he is correct in his supposition that air is better in SC2 than in SC1.
i hope the Terrans get some bad ass answer to the mother ship i want more air battles the loki would be very cool to see.
and i believe the expansions will bring more units to all of the races u cant just bring more units to one race
And not just that, but there are no pure AtA units in SC2. I mean, there are, but they all can affect AtG in some way... Phoenixes got Gravity Beam, Corruptors can corrupt ground units too and Vikings can transform to ground form. With all this, I think that Blizzard accomplished great thing and that is that these units are not useless outside of AtA battle, like Devourers, Valkyries and Scourges were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalarsco
Lost the paragraph I was writing.
Anyways, here is the idea.
So you were more specific with your statement that "they nullified the value of everything except Science Vessels, Mutalisks, Corsairs, and Transports" but that's a completely senseless statement. Doesn't ANYTHING air nullify the usage of banshees? Or half the units in the game nullify void rays? So in the end, you still need combinations to win right? If making wraiths forces a zerg to make either scourge or hydra, isn't that the same as making banshees forcing the zerg to make muta or hydra? If anything, wraiths held their weight against scourge FAR better than banshees do against hydralisks.
If air was so horrible, how come we saw so much of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
-bisu builds, sair/reaver, shuttle play... Definitely not the kind of strats you used, but definitely VERY frequent. The shuttle got tons more usage in BW than it does in SC2.
-wraith openings in TvZ, very frequent dropship play, Science Vessels in every single friggin TvZ? The vessels got used much more in BW than its SC2 counterpart.
On the other hand, there's 10x less dropship play in SC2 than there was in BW.
Do you see more carriers and battlecruisers in SC2 than you saw in BW?
Basically, don't blame scourge. And don't say nonesense like "Everyone knows that Scourge absolutely dominate in StarCraft.". The fact is, you see plenty of air in SC:BW. Now air is just more specialized, so you don't need to have lots of it them. The scourge was strong, but only a complete amateur would say that "scourge broke air in BW". There is ONE exception to that: the carrier. No doubt, using the carrier is a big no-no in PvZ, but I hardly call that breaking air.
Adding scourge to SC2 would ONLY be broken because the current AtA doesn't have any splash damage, and that doesn't have anything to do with what you were saying.
@Ramiz:
Like I said, in BW ZvP, you saw corsair aaaall the time. And shuttles very frequently. The other protoss air units are all exceptions: the carrier, to which I admitted is the ONLY unit which is broken against Z, and then the scout is useless all around, and the arbiter's cloak is useless+stasis isn't efficient against waves of zerg.
In BW ZvT, some top players relied heavily on wraith openings (Leta for example, one of the most reliable proleague players for a long time), you saw science vessels in every single game (way more than it's SC2 counterpart), and don't get me started on dropship play. Valkyries take the hands of a skilled player, but as long as you don't get overeager with them as use them the same way you'd handle corsairs, then you're safe. 2008-09 saw tons of valkyrie play with the fantasy build. And the battlecruiser didn't do so badly against zerg. It takes 7 scourge to kill one BC, and that's if your micro is godlike. Just flying them in at a D/C level won't get you very fancy results. Besides, I doubt you see any more BCs in SC2 than you did in BW.
Notes and recap:
-OBVIOUSLY this is about 1v1
-Air is not horrible in BW because of the scourge.
But that's not what he's saying. He's saying that one of the TWO reasons air was bad in BW, is the scourge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalarsco
While I disagree that air was "horrible" in BW, whatever weaknesses it had are definitely not BECAUSE of the scourge. I should have been more clear about that.
Yup yup, air is more dynamic now indeed. And the scourge in all this?Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
I didn't say that. Point is, in SC1, Zerg has two Lair "openings", one is Mutas and the other one is Lurkers. You are not forcing them to make Scourges, because they are already making them, since most of the Zerg go straight to the Mutas opening. I mean, yes, you make Banshees and force him to make Hydras or Mutas, but Banshee is great unit, great AtG attacker, just like Void Ray, and I saw many games ended up with them. But, how many games did you see in ZvT and ZvP, to be ended by Wraiths and Scouts? in 20 games of ZvT, I see Wraiths in 1 or 2, and Valkyries in maybe 1 - 4 games. Unlike in Sc2, where you see Air almost every game.Quote:
So you were more specific with your statement that "they nullified the value of everything except Science Vessels, Mutalisks, Corsairs, and Transports" but that's a completely senseless statement. Doesn't ANYTHING air nullify the usage of banshees? Or half the units in the game nullify void rays? So in the end, you still need combinations to win right? If making wraiths forces a zerg to make either scourge or hydra, isn't that the same as making banshees forcing the zerg to make muta or hydra? If anything, wraiths held their weight against scourge FAR better than banshees do against hydralisks.
And to finish what I have started, how many times did you see that vs. Every drop, harass or anything, they just keep making Scourges? Six months ago, I was watching intensively SC1, and vs. Protoss, many pro Zergs, skipped the Hydras den, rushed to the Lair to make Spire, and first units that they make after few Zerglings for scouting were Scourges, to instantly counter Corsairs that were coming for harass.
TL;DR the whole point of this statement is that now, you can force Zerg to make Anti-Air, while in SC1, Zerg was forcing you NOT to make Air, or at least, that is how I see it, since they will always have Scourges, which are really effective at what they do and not really expensive.
What do you mean by the last sentence?Quote:
Yup yup, air is more dynamic now indeed. And the scourge in all this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Anything that made StarCraft great, you hate.
Now, you hate the Banshee and Reaper and they're one of the main reasons that StarCraft 2 is fun. Your opinions are terrible.
It's far too early to speculate what new units we might see.
As cool as some of the campaign units for Terran are I don't think we'll ever see them as multiplayer units. The only ones I think are possible are firebats and diamondbacks.
It's also worth mentioning that all units and abilities added in BW were very useful and used in most games, with the exception of the dark archon and the corsair's disruption web ability.
Right now I'm just having fun playing SC2 in it's current form and the metagame hasn't evolved much yet so let's just take it one step at a time :P
Ever heard of Corsairs? They annihilate Scourges. Scourges are easy to counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Also, you think you know more about the game than Hammy? I've 1v1'd him quite a few times and I can tell you with absolute certainty that he is one of the best players I've seen and has a lot of knowledge about the game. He is the SCL Strategy staff after all.
You, on the other hand, are a Bronze or Silver last I saw and have admitted yourself to have a hard time remembering counters. But, if you think you know more about the game then maybe you should ask him to 1v1.
Your arrogance has deluded you into believing that you know what you're talking about and that your opinion is worth "a few hundred bucks" as opposed to our two cents.
Please stop trying to troll me. Your attempts are pathetic. I do not "hate" the Banshee or the Reaper. I merely feel that of the current Terran units, they are the two which could be removed and saved for expansions if such a thing was deemed necessary. I'll even explain again why I chose two units.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Terran has the Viking which can act as harassment just as the Wraith did in SC1, and Ravens can drop Auto-Turrets. Infantry drops are more effective with the Medevac. The Banshee's trait is cloaking in the ATG battle for Terran unit effectiveness, which clearly has its uses, but I think the Terran could survive without the Banshee for awhile. There are simply other viable options that are generally more cost effective.
The Reaper is strong early game but becomes very weak later. Blizzard has yet to find a way to fix this. For the relative cost and build time of a Reaper you can get 2-3 Marines which, while less mobile, will arguably have a higher damage output and survivability. It takes great skill to use the Reaper well, and I support the need for mechanics that encourage skill and practice, but the game is so new I think there's enough for people to learn right now that the Reaper could easily have been saved for an expansion. It serves no niche beyond early harassment and is just a gimmick as far as I'm concerned.
As for the Scourge, I stand by my position it was too strong in StarCraft. Once Zerg got Scourge most other air production for Terran and Protoss stopped. The only air units you'd see were the absolutely vital transports, and Corsairs, Wraiths, and Science Vessels - units which were well suited to, unsurprisingly, killing Scourge.
I'm Gold/Platnium League, just FYI. And the reason I'm not higher is because I haven't trained my fingers to be fast enough or know all the hotkeys yet, as well as being a micro-oriented player in what is clear an macro/economy based game. There's a large difference between knowledge and strategy, and pure mechanical skill. Also note I mentioned Corsairs before you decided to chime in when Hammy first questioned my position.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
L2R.
Banshees are awesomely useful and there is nothing that does their job as well. They are irreplaceable. You just have to learn how to use them.
Reapers, too, serve their purpose. Yes, they're most useful in the early game but that's fine. They still served their purpose if you can do it right. You can probably even end the game if you bunker or Reaper effectively with a backup.
(PS: If I'm trolling, what is it exactly that you do here?)
I provide an alternate viewpoint with the aim of promoting discussion of controversial topics.Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
orly?
Most of your posts are similar to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
You're just a troll that can dish it but can't take it. Alas, out of respect for the moderators and posters, I will end this conversation. I've made my point.
You made the point that I take the liberty to point out someone is a moron after I crush them with logic?Quote:
Originally Posted by TychusFindlay
Good job.
blizzard has a rep. for taking 1 thing unplayable from the previous game and making it playable in their expansions. they did it with the sc 1 dark templar, they did it with the war3 dragon hawk, they did it with d2 assassin. there more certainty than doubt that they might do it again.
first, i think they'll eventually bring back the dark archon because they just left it out to keep the unit count down. it doesn't matter what it used to do, they'll make it do what they need it to do. it's a unit that can be used later should they need a caster.
i think that the zerg leviathan might make it from the editer to multiplayer. it's something the the other races have that zerg does not. it could be their battlecrusier or their mothership. a air unit that drops hatchery larva below it, a air unit that counters corruptors air-to-air by attacking with scourges like the broodlord's method. w/e the purpose, it has possibility.
i think if enough people keep pushing, the lurker will be back. i never believed the baneling could replace the lurker efficiently. you can make a baneling minefield, but leaving 2 lurkers in your base is better. you can build sunken colony defense, but leaving 2 lurkers in your base is better. if the lurker comes back they'll most likely change it. in a sense it might be new then.
You haven't crushed anything with logic squid. You just state your thoughts, and don't realize they are opinions (false ones in this case) thinking they are fact. Don't get ahead of yourself...Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
I'll go straight to what Ramiz is saying, since he's trying to have a discussion...
@Ramiz:
But there are so many cases of air dominance battles in BW ZvP... and in ZvT, well it's like in SC2 (next paragraph)Quote:
TL;DR the whole point of this statement is that now, you can force Zerg to make Anti-Air, while in SC1, Zerg was forcing you NOT to make Air, or at least, that is how I see it, since they will always have Scourges, which are really effective at what they do and not really expensive.
I don't see many games ending with banshees and void rays, and if you do, then you'll be seeing less and less of them as people learn to understand the game better. Usually banshees or void rays are only used a transition or a specific response. Needless to say the scout was broken in BW, but otherwise that's the same general purpose as the wraith.
I'm not saying the wraith is as strong as the banshee and the voidray in AtG. It's true that these unit's strong AtG makes them viable and dangerous even in small numbers, but this efficiency has nothing to do with the absence of scourge...
So I'm saying two things:
-air units were VERY frequent in BW: I'm disagreeing with squid's initial statement "air is horrible in BW"
-whatever weakness BW air had (everything needs a weakness!) has nothing to do with scourge. They are just an integral part of the game, and there are many ways to handle them. The most obvious one being corsairs of course.
I'll also add that the SC2 air is much more beginner friendly than in BW because it requires far less micro.
Therefor it's possible that scourge would fare better against a D- player than it would against anything above C level. That doesn't make it broken! But that might explain part of this disagreement (fyi I wasn't a great BW player, definitely not higher than C-/C level, but I NEVER had the impression that scourge broke anything).
I hope that clarifies this part. What I'm saying is that it isn't because of scourge that SC:BW air does less AtG damage..... but that nevertheless, everything balances out in BW since we see so much air usage. Perhaps in a different way than we see it in SC2, but it's a different game.Quote:
What do you mean by the last sentence?Quote:
Yup yup, air is more dynamic now indeed. And the scourge in all this?
For the Terran specifically I'd like to see 2 units that can combine them self's and become a bigger and more powerful one.
I'd also like to see megatron introduced into MP as a single unit also, made from various buildings.
I'd like to see the lurker back for the zerg and this time with great model and graphics, having upgrades to attack more ways and being just generally awesome.
For the Protoss I'd like to see the mothership totally reworked with new cool and interesting abilities and good stats.
Maybe have a new kind of stealth unit that is fast moving, fast attacking but does less damage.
I don't know what he's doing, but you're clearly not listening to what he's saying. He's not saying that the Banshee and Reaper are bad units. He's saying that the Terrans as a race would be perfectly functional without them. They would still be for the most part balanced.Quote:
Banshees are awesomely useful and there is nothing that does their job as well. They are irreplaceable. You just have to learn how to use them.
Reapers, too, serve their purpose. Yes, they're most useful in the early game but that's fine. They still served their purpose if you can do it right. You can probably even end the game if you bunker or Reaper effectively with a backup.
(PS: If I'm trolling, what is it exactly that you do here?)
Yes, you wouldn't have that early Reaper harass, or Banshee rush. But Terrans still have plenty of ways to put early pressure on a player without these units.
OK, what are the SC1 air units that are not "capital ships"? Each race has a transport. Added to that are Scourge, Mutalisks, Corsairs, Scouts, Wraiths, Valkyries, Queens, Vessels, and Arbiters. Devourers are expensive enough (in Zerg terms of expense) to be considered Capital Ships for this purpose.Quote:
air units were VERY frequent in BW: I'm disagreeing with squid's initial statement "air is horrible in BW"
Everybody is going to use their transports when appropriate, so those don't matter to this discussion. Transports are targets to be protected, not combat units.
Of these actual air combat units, how many of them see actual use? Two of the flying spellcasters. Mutalisks (ie: the one that actually has a decent cost:AtG damage ratio) and Scourge (ie: the one that has the highest cost:AtA damage ratio). Every other air unit is purely situational when it is used at all.
Corsairs are only seen in PvZ, and even then, many PvZ builds only make one or two to scout the Zerg early-on. Wraiths are only seen in TvZ, and these require specialized near-all-in builds to even consider using. Valkyries were semi-popular as part of Mech vs. Zerg, but that is a somewhat out-of-favor build compared to conventional TvZ tactics. Everything else? Fail.
Of the 9 air units, only 4 are common-place, and two of those are spellcasters. Of the 9 air units, 2 are utterly worthless. And of the 3 that are non-common-place, they're still not seen in any significant numbers.
Here's the oddity, one that seems to play to your favor, so I'm not sure why you didn't mention it. There are no non-transport, non-spellcaster air units used in PvT at all. Air units are only ever deployed against the Zerg. If Scourge are so overpowered, why?
Part of it is the tech cost of the Spire. There are many Zerg builds, ZvP mainly, that would like nothing better than to skip the damn thing entirely. But more than that is one simple fact: the Zerg are the only race that actually has something flying that is integral to the functioning of that race. Overlord ensure that the Zerg always have something that needs defending, which in turn makes an otherwise useless unit like the Corsair or Wraith more valuable.
And even then, Corsairs and Wraiths will die to Scourge. Fast and bloody. Wraith-based builds work based on surprise and speed: getting out before the Spire. Corsairs can beat Scourge, but only if you get 7+ of them. Otherwise, they're dead meat too.
Most important of all Scourge are the reason why captial ships can virtually never be deployed against the Zerg. Carriers especially, but this goes for BCs in smaller numbers too.
It's wrong to say that Scourge are the major contributing factor to the general crappiness of SC1's air model, but you can't deny that:
1: Scourge are a cheap, powerful, anti-air unit that negates many air-based tactics almost immediately.
2: SC1's air model sucked; at best, there are only a couple of air units that can be used in a particular matchup.
Of course it does. If Scourge existed in SC2, especially with larva being rather more available, do you honestly think that, outside of an explicit timing window (ie: get your StarPort+TechLab before they get their Lair+Spire), that Banshees or Void Rays would ever see use? Of course not.Quote:
It's true that these unit's strong AtG makes them viable and dangerous even in small numbers, but this efficiency has nothing to do with the absence of scourge...
A Banshee would be 25/75 from being dead. That's well less than half the cost of a Corruptor, and still far less than a single Mutalisk, and the Scourge are far more effective anti-air than either of those.
The best you could hope for is a dynamic like SC1 fell into with Wraiths, where you could get them first and maybe do some harassment, but you had to transition to something else or you're toast. Wraiths would never be line units that could support an army in the field. Why? Because they can be swatted from the sky with ease.
Nice to see you Nicol :D
Nicol:
-The use of transports is very relevant. If the SC:BW air is so unsafe because of scourge, why is there so much dropship play?
-Why aren't you considering flying spellcasters as air units? Again, if the air is so unsafe because of scourge, the science vessel shouldn't so much more present than the raven.
-Wraiths are squelched just as easily/difficultly by mutalisks as they are by scourge.
-The valkyrie isn't the viking. It's much more of an assist unit, and fills that role well.
-Actually only 5 corsairs are necessary to handle scourge, but I get your point. However, it's not entirely true that most protoss only make or two to scout. Many Protoss rely heavily on corsairs, and sair strategie can be some of the worst to handle as a zerg player.
I'm glad we agree here.Quote:
It's wrong to say that Scourge are the major contributing factor to the general crappiness of SC1's air model, but you can't deny that:
1) Yes scourge do negate some purely air-based tactics, but that's called a hard counter. Why is the scourge getting all the hate here? Next thing we know, squid will be saying the defiler broke the ZvT matchup.
They negate those strategies at a cost however, and at a risk, which isn't always negligible. I specifically recall leta owning a zerg (I think it was calm, one of my favorite zerg from STX, who happens to have some great micro) who had responded to leta's dual port with a spire and just couldn't fight off leta's awesome wraith. I can't say scourge "negate that air-based tactic immediately". Though again, yes are a hard counter to some NON-ASSISTED air units such as the carrier. The other air units it owns are assist units essentially (SV, valk, etc...).
2) I think we aren't seeing BW air from the same angle. I LOVED that BW air had spellcasters, pure AtA units that were there as an assist. I never once wished that I could build a pure air army and roll over a ground army. That would be uninteresting to me. It also doesn't bother me that some units were reserved to certain matchups. Does it bother you that PvT doesn't involve any infantry? Did the HT break that match-up? I know I've grown to love that match-up.
Now your "cost-efficiency to kill a banshee" example:
It is flawed. Surely I don't have to remind you that you have to suicide those scourge to kill a banshee. This isn't a straight-up battle we're talking about. This is mutalisks/corruptors that can kill banshees (fairly quickly btw) while taking zero damage, versus sacrificing units to be cost efficient.
If the banshees are mixed into an army, that's a different story though.
I should point out that I'm not saying the scourge would have zero impact if it were added to SC2, but it's a completely different animal.
Finally, the reason wraiths aren't great to assist your army isn't quite because they can be swatted easily by scourge imo. To me it's because they can be killed easily by anything if they aren't dancing around. They are a tactical unit, that I would be inclined to compare with the reaper. I don't think their weakness really has much to do with the scourge flying around: Which is my whole point to begin with!
Meh, SC2 terran would be boring if they didn't have some key options like early reapers or banshees. The whole point of the race is that you don't always know what to expect. Think of how much the mere existence of void rays has affected ZvP.Quote:
Yes, you wouldn't have that early Reaper harass, or Banshee rush. But Terrans still have plenty of ways to put early pressure on a player without these units.