pW's (Rather Comprehensive) Review

Wow. Can't imagine it's finally over. At least, the first run through, the seeing of everything for the first time, the first impressions. 12 years of waiting. All to this.

There's gonna be lots of talk here about stuff Blizz did poorly, and stuff they did only "OK," but that's only because we've come to expect nothing short of the impossible (or the highly improbable). In all honesty, taking the context of the gaming world into account, it was amazing from start to finish. Continuing SC2's trend of cowboy-ifying anything and everything, I hope you won't begrudge me my section titles. ;)


THE GOOD

-Nearly all of the voice acting. Mengsk? Delicious. Findlay? Pitch-perfect. Swann? Endearing. Raynor? Better than ever. Horner was a train wreck waiting to happen, but Brian Bloom managed to inject surprising depth into the straight-lace prude archetype. (Props for the especially mocking delivery of "You have no idea who she is, do you Tychus?" in QOB)

-The cinematics. My God, the cinematics. All of them are breathtakingly good. I was going to list my favorites, but realized that's about all of them. The action scenes are phenomenal (Warfield bayonetting a Zergling before PUNCHING OUT A HYDRALISK. Holy shit. Anyone still laughing at bayonets?), the character-driven ones are biting and emotional (Queen of Blades, A Better Tomorrow), the funny ones (Nova, Brawl) are, well, hilarious. The score is perfect; the only possible misstep that comes to mind being the overly(?) sappy backdrop to "Fire and Fury," but that is more than made up for by the inspired and haunting melody that underscores Tosh's victory.

-The writing. ...most of it, anyway. The game is surprisingly funny (Swann's comments after a few of the early missions come to mind) without ever descending into farce. If there is anything I did not expect to make the transition 12 years into the future, it was the humor. And if I were to expect humor, based on most of the units' quote jokes from the Beta, I would have expected nothing but a barrage of references to science fiction that was aged when the ORIGINAL game came out. Instead, we get brilliant moments like Raynor and Swann arguing over the value of classic cars-- er, I mean, Vultures. ;) The writing for Mengsk's speeches (once they pick up around the 1/3 mark) is exceptional, Valerian's sophisticated ambition (and the way it plays out in cinematic form) is a great surprise, and Tychus isn't wasted for an instant. Frankly, I don't know about you, but I was taken aback by how adult all of the writing was -- not just the humor, but the drama, the characters. After so many years spent in the WarCraft universe, I guess I forgot how good Blizz is with straight-up down-to-earth characters and settings. And this is probably their most down-to-earth effort ever. I was a little surprised by Tychus choosing to tackle a Marine into the wall instead of simply shooting the guy, since he seems like a "take no prisoners" type of guy to me... but then he pulls out his gun, aims the dude straight in the melon, and smiles. He didn't JUST kill him. He made a POINT of killing him.

-The gameplay. I still can't believe that out of 26 missions there are only 4 (depending on playthrough, maybe even 3) that are pure RPG; not only do the rest all feature building to some extent, but they are almost all fun. Pick any SC2 mission at random and it's likely to be more fun and interesting than the most fun mission of BW (nevermind SC Vanilla). Blizz must be applauded for their imagination when it comes to mission design, and their understanding of what makes single player maps work. Take, for instance, the fact that they removed the need to research abilities. The tiniest of changes, but it instantly makes every mission less of a chore because there is less foreplay, less doing the same old routine over and over.

-The characters. Tychus and Warfield (who'da thunk it?) are both guaranteed to be fan-favourites right out of the gate. Valerian and Matt may be more of an acquired taste from what I gather around the boards, but I think Matt serves his (limited) role perfectly, and Valerian has great potential as a future player. More intelligent, bold characters never hurt anyone. And even Mengsk, who was turned into a see-through non-entity in Brood War, has been returned to his former grandness. Hell, he's even got the first glimmer of new characterization since his inauguration -- showing some smidgen of respect for Valerian's ambition, even when it comes at the cost of his own power.

THE BAD

-Blatant lack of antagonism in-missions. Seeing Mengsk pop up on news broadcasts is awesome and all, but with the dubious exception of Kerrigan in the last 3-4 missions, you're usually far too distanced from the conflict. And that's a pretty big no-no for any kind of story. Which isn't to say they needed Mengsk to come at you in a Thor... but having more than one mission where you're being hounded by Warfield would have been a decent start. I would have liked to see Mengsk take a more active interest in Raynor -- not necessarily trying to assassinate him (they got around that one OK), but at least whittle down his forces some and keep him on his toes. For the majority of the middle section of the game, the stakes felt pretty darn low. It didn't help that the primary antagonist, Kerrigan, kept losing every single fight she got into. Smash and Grab? Check. Whispers of Doom? Check. Moebius? Check. Every single Char mission? Check! Evidently Blizzard forgot how they managed to make Illidan into a COMPETENT antagonist in TFT.

-Somewhat stale environment. The original Terran campaign, Rebel Yell, featured the following major character/alliance shifts: Duke as annoying superior > Duke as antagonist > Duke as annoying comrade > Duke as antagonist; Mengsk as ally > Mengsk as enemy. And that's with a cast of 4 characters! SC2, with a cast many times that, has Valerian + Warfield as background antagonists to foreground allies... and that's it. Spread over 25 missions instead of 10 to boot.

-Sometimes, less is more. This is a direct result of the somewhat stale environment above and comes into play during the latter stages of the midgame. Recipe: 1 part limited cast, 1 part static backdrop, and 3 parts heavy focus on characters... what do you get? Characters who are forced to talk at length about things that are best dramatically served with just a well-timed smirk or a grimace, instead of a paragraph (or five) of soul-searching character motivation laid bare. The time when Horner pulls Raynor aside and warns him about Tychus's deathtrap suit after the Odin mission? Great. Every single other time when the question of Tychus's allegiance comes up UNPROMPTED, past the first 4-5 missions? More like filler.

-Branching screws up pacing something fierce. Raynor makes love to bottle. Raynor dreams of Kerrigan. Raynor wakes up to find Matt admonishing him for being drunk a lot lately and for not having a handle on their priorities. Unfortunately, I haven't seen Raynor get drunk, and I haven't seen Raynor blatantly do stuff that Matt considers to be a waste of time, so all this does is make Matt seem like a total dick, instead of raising a legitimate complaint with Raynor's deteriorating leadership skills (what I imagine they were going for). The entire early-middle section is filled with episodic stories that don't properly set up -- or resolve -- much, because you just can't have a mutiny start on Raynor's ship when the player might next pick a mission whose briefing requires for all characters to be cooperating. I think branching was an interesting experiment, and not entirely flawed, but they need to make quite a few improvements to the system in time for Heart.

THE UGLY

-The Prophecy. Not only is the idea lame to begin with, the presentation of it was simply atrocious. For instance, Zeratul keeps referencing plot-relevant segments that we never got to see/hear, ie. that the coming of Kerrigan was 'foretold.' Where exactly...? The entire thing is a hand wave of massive proportions.

-The writing for Zeratul in general. Queen of Blades (the novel) attempted to interpret Zeratul as some sort of mystic riddler, and ever since Blizz has been shoehorning that re-characterization wherever possible. It doesn't fit. The Zeratul we fell in love with was a bad-ass warrior who happened to be a poet. This new Zeratul is a wannabe poet who happens to be a warrior. If Blizzard can't see the difference (or can't see why the difference isn't an improvement), they need to replay SC1.

-Speaking of writing: Kerrigan? Probably the biggest disappointment in SC2. Just because the campaign doesn't center around her is no excuse to make her anything but the magnificent bitch that she always has been. Brood War demonstrated that a thousand times over. She taunts Jim and Zeratul with cliche one-liners, demonstrating NONE of the bite she had 12 years ago. (Let alone the fact that all these taunts are also EMPTY, seeing as how she does not win a single engagement.) "Oh, and by the way, Admiral: Your friend Stukov was twice the man you are. I'm glad you saved me the trouble of having to kill him..." Nothing she says in SC2 even comes close, and that's not nostalgia talking. Not only is she not the same magnificent bastardress of olde, she isn't even competent. And that's a damn shame.


Having just finished the game, these are all my immediate thoughts. A lot of the stuff I'm still processing, and might add to the list later. There's quite a lot in the bad/ugly sections, but it says something about the quality of the stuff I did enjoy that, despite all of that, I'm still completely blown away. And if I know Blizzard, they're gonna take the lessons they learned developing Wings to heart. I think a lot of these problems we're not likely to see again.

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they're gonna take the lessons they learned developing Wings to heart

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I see what you did there. Anyway, nice review.

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Originally Posted by flabortast

I see what you did there. Anyway, nice review.

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Only at 7 AM after a night of no sleep does someone do that unintentionally...

Although I really should just take credit, shouldn't I? Yes, indeed, my subconscious is quite clever. :D

Best review I've seen so far. Precisely my thoughts on Zeratul and Kerrigan, as well as plotting/pacing issues.

I'd even say that WoL has the worst story and the best gameplay of all Blizzard games.

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Originally Posted by Eligor

I'd even say that WoL has the worst story and the best gameplay of all Blizzard games.

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I will agree that it has the worst story on the condition that we divide story and presentation (and I'm not just talking about gameplay here). WOL has very little plot, but what plot it does have is presented exceedingly well, and even when it has no plot it still manages to be immersive and highly entertaining (more than most games can dream to be) because of how far it goes out of its way to create a living, breathing world.

Take, for instance, a cinematic like "Queen of Blades." On the surface, it's complete filler. We know that Tychus doesn't know much about her, we know that Matt doesn't trust him, all it does is provide subtle exposition for newcomers. But it's beautifully, meticulously directed, animated, voiced. It's one of the best cinematics in the game, and that's a heckuva tough competition.

I suppose it's a case of the journey being worth more than the road you're traveling on. ;)

Let me ask you one question P.W

U say that blizzard can learn a lesson from their mistakes on wol and i agree with that...but kerrigan is human again and that takes away ur magnificent bitch for good(i hope). Plus its not like everyone wishes for her to be zerg again(that would be lame...would be like alright wol was about kerrigan getting de-infested and hots will be about kerrigan getting infested again...riiiight)i for one sure dont wanna!

Anyway nice review man

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Originally Posted by Spartan13

Let me ask you one question P.W

U say that blizzard can learn a lesson from their mistakes on wol and i agree with that...but kerrigan is human again and that takes away ur magnificent bitch for good(i hope). Plus its not like everyone wishes for her to be zerg again(that would be lame...would be like alright wol was about kerrigan getting de-infested and hots will be about kerrigan getting infested again...riiiight)i for one sure dont wanna!

Anyway nice review man

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On the contrary, I'm actually NOT one of those people who wants her to remain Zerg. I think that that story's already been told (and told well), and I look forward to the opportunities opened up by this bold move.

But while she was infested, I'd have preferred a little more consistency. She starts BW with a single brood at her beck and call and ends it basically ruling the sector undisputed. She starts this game in a position that should be total control and still manages to screw up every single thing she touches. It's like the Midas curse, only instead of turning everything to gold, she turns it into fail. :p

I see ur point there...yep couldn't agree more.

Depends. There are good (as well as some bad) scenes and character interactions, the conversation Matt and Tychus had about Kerrigan on one hand (best scene in the game?) and the very anti-climactc introduction of the Hybrids on the other (but I did love the Protoss last stand mission), however they never really combine into a plot that feels like a complete whole, and the ending is very diappointing and inconclusive (that last cinematic would've perfect had it been put into the story as a dream of Raynor's rather than an actual conclusion), and Raynor's character feels rather disjointed because of the variable continuity. In fact, I disagree with so many of the writing decisions (Tychus for example is basically there to die without doing anything else, which is a grand shame) that I have great difficulty in accepting it as a legitimate continuation of the story, StarCraft ends for me with Brood War, I do hope that'll change with the expansions, but at the moment I'm very disappointed (considering what they could have done). Actually, I would gladly see flexible continuity and player choices dropped in the expansions in favour of a story with stronger structure.

With all that, I still have a great appreciation for the effort and ambition that clearlu went into making it. Of course the art direction is phenomenal, and the single player missions the most creative Blizzard has done yet.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

Take, for instance, a cinematic like "Queen of Blades." On the surface, it's complete filler. We know that Tychus doesn't know much about her, we know that Matt doesn't trust him, all it does is provide subtle exposition for newcomers. But it's beautifully, meticulously directed, animated, voiced. It's one of the best cinematics in the game, and that's a heckuva tough competition.

I suppose it's a case of the journey being worth more than the road you're traveling on. ;)

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Damn, and here I just provided it as an example myself. Definitely one of the best scenes in the whole game.

Excellent review. I agree with almost all of your points and share the same thoughts. I like that your review is comprehensive , concise, and fair - probably one of the first on the forums too...a bit too much blind fanboy'ism around here me thinks.

However I disagree with one point, the cinematics.
Jesus they had horrible transition, poor planning, or just felt lame.

For example, when you embarg on Valerians ship, you just blast out of an airlock and gun down a few goons and reach Valerian?
Sure Valerian "planned" to let you in but jesus that was like the most quick and bizzare part of the game.

One second you're with Horner (Ohhh this is a baaad idea)
Next you're busting out of an air lock and gun down some marines with PG Rated Action
Then Valerian says I can cure Kerrigan...
Next you're suddenly back with horner in your stained white t shirt and just like "Yeaaah..."
Errhmm..Okay.

Or the Intro cinematic..
I didn't like how they recycled the reveal cinematic, then dubbed in Mengsk's entire cheesy gameplay with vague words about war and how he is basically a pawn.
It gave away the story, and it lead you to believe the game was going to be some epic brawl. When in reality, you were just a space cowboy helping out lil' old Dr. Hanson and being duped by Valerian.

The rally call cinematic before "ALL IN" mission
Uh yah ....the clouds magically parted away just for Raynor. This is STARCRAFT, not a FREAKING ANIME. Where is the darkness? The mood? The nitty gritty terran atmosphere?
Like crap, this is CHAR. A VOLCANIC WORLD. Not to mention there were probably less than a handful of dominion marines left. More cliche, it's like this was the final stand at the Alamo or some shit.

The Finale Cinematic
Meh. Tychus is dead and the hoe croaks and Jimmy picks her up. The whole thing was full of cliche, predictability, and cheese.

Sure there were a few that stood out, the Kerrigan betrayal, Tychus findlay suit up, and the Zeratul vs Kerrigan.
Funny though, those were the ones that were released in full to fans years ago?
Don't you guys hate movies when the trailer show all the good parts ? Because that's all there is to show.
Hmmm I'm feeling a connection...

And for the record, I felt the campaign was "barely satisfactory" - I felt that they concentrated a bit too much on gameplay. Yeah the missions had INCREDIBLE detail but the storyline/cinematics were "sub par" for the most part. Blizzard is famous for cinematics. This game has broken that track record for me.

Is this another case of unpleasable fanbase? StarCraft 2 SP Campaign has done things that most RTS game campaigns can only dream of. Has there been a SP campaign of an RTS that comes close to this?

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Originally Posted by flabortast

Is this another case of unpleasable fanbase? StarCraft 2 SP Campaign has done things that most RTS game campaigns can only dream of. Has there been a SP campaign of an RTS that comes close to this?

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It did only a fraction of what it easily could have done had the writing been more consistent. It's not a question whether it's a good RTS game campaign (it is) but rather whether it's a good StarCraft story.

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Originally Posted by hyde

For example, when you embarg on Valerians ship, you just blast out of an airlock and gun down a few goons and reach Valerian?
Sure Valerian "planned" to let you in but jesus that was like the most quick and bizzare part of the game.

One second you're with Horner (Ohhh this is a baaad idea)
Next you're busting out of an air lock and gun down some marines with PG Rated Action
Then Valerian says I can cure Kerrigan...
Next you're suddenly back with horner in your stained white t shirt and just like "Yeaaah..."
Errhmm..Okay.

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The issue here is time. How much time can they devote to any single cinematic? I agree that the cut there was far from ideal. How did the Hyperion get in range without a shooting match going off? How did all this go down? Would have been nice to see. That said, they can only devote so much to every cinematic, so they concentrated on that which was most important. We got our character moment (Raynor/Tychus/Matt), we got our action moment, we got our plot moment.

It's not ideal, but we don't live in fantasy land where cinematics can be two hours long and include every detail we want to see. Just think: no other RTS would have had a cinematic for that period (including WC3). They would have had these units talk it out as bubble heads (SC1, RA3, etc) or very poorly animated low-rez models (WC3).

So this isn't a fall from grace for Blizz due to a poorer than expected cinematic, it's an amazing gift from Blizz due to including a cinematic that's at least AVERAGE by all possible objective standards, that would not have been there in any other game.

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Or the Intro cinematic..
I didn't like how they recycled the reveal cinematic, then dubbed in Mengsk's entire cheesy gameplay with vague words about war and how he is basically a pawn.
It gave away the story, and it lead you to believe the game was going to be some epic brawl. When in reality, you were just a space cowboy helping out lil' old Dr. Hanson and being duped by Valerian.

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I agree about it giving the story away. I think there were some great moments regarding Tychus's "mission" throughout, but they were very poorly dispersed without any sort of cohesive thread. One after this mission, one before that mission, it didn't build and that's why the resolution felt awkward.

But that wouldn't have changed had they simply cut Mengsk's voice out. We would have suspected things almost immediately anyway. So at least that cinematic got to be more awesome.

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The rally call cinematic before "ALL IN" mission
Uh yah ....the clouds magically parted away just for Raynor. This is STARCRAFT, not a FREAKING ANIME. Where is the darkness? The mood? The nitty gritty terran atmosphere?
Like crap, this is CHAR. A VOLCANIC WORLD. Not to mention there were probably less than a handful of dominion marines left. More cliche, it's like this was the final stand at the Alamo or some shit.

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To be fair, Blizz does this so rarely that I think it's something of a subversion to GET such a scene. I mean, statistically speaking, you're bound to have an epic speech combined with de-clouding at SOME point. ;)

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Originally Posted by flabortast

Is this another case of unpleasable fanbase? StarCraft 2 SP Campaign has done things that most RTS game campaigns can only dream of. Has there been a SP campaign of an RTS that comes close to this?

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I think that in SOME ways, the SC1 and the WC3 campaigns are superior to the WOL campaign. That said, however they may be superior, they still do not compare in my eyes. As shallow as it might make me seem, presentation is important, and SC2 ain't got nothing if not presentation to spare. (I use the term 'presentation' loosely; not just cinematics, but also presenting the entire world, the characters of the world, and so on.)

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

The issue here is time. How much time can they devote to any single cinematic? I agree that the cut there was far from ideal. How did the Hyperion get in range without a shooting match going off? How did all this go down? Would have been nice to see. That said, they can only devote so much to every cinematic, so they concentrated on that which was most important. We got our character moment (Raynor/Tychus/Matt), we got our action moment, we got our plot moment.

It's not ideal, but we don't live in fantasy land where cinematics can be two hours long and include every detail we want to see. Just think: no other RTS would have had a cinematic for that period (including WC3). They would have had these units talk it out as bubble heads (SC1, RA3, etc) or very poorly animated low-rez models (WC3).

So this isn't a fall from grace for Blizz due to a poorer than expected cinematic, it's an amazing gift from Blizz due to including a cinematic that's at least AVERAGE by all possible objective standards, that would not have been there in any other game.



I agree about it giving the story away. I think there were some great moments regarding Tychus's "mission" throughout, but they were very poorly dispersed without any sort of cohesive thread. One after this mission, one before that mission, it didn't build and that's why the resolution felt awkward.

But that wouldn't have changed had they simply cut Mengsk's voice out. We would have suspected things almost immediately anyway. So at least that cinematic got to be more awesome.



To be fair, Blizz does this so rarely that I think it's something of a subversion to GET such a scene. I mean, statistically speaking, you're bound to have an epic speech combined with de-clouding at SOME point. ;)



I think that in SOME ways, the SC1 and the WC3 campaigns are superior to the WOL campaign. That said, however they may be superior, they still do not compare in my eyes. As shallow as it might make me seem, presentation is important, and SC2 ain't got nothing if not presentation to spare. (I use the term 'presentation' loosely; not just cinematics, but also presenting the entire world, the characters of the world, and so on.)

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I think our problem is that blizzard managed to tell a better story 10 years ago with nothing but text and talking heads. It was grand, dark and mysterious. Everything about it was beautifully done with the technology and tools available at the time. Now that they have SO much more it's just so sad to see it fall so far behind the original.

Nice attempt at a review. I don't share your opinion on most of the "good", and I don't really care about half of the "bad" you pointed out... Taste and colors.

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Originally Posted by ZealotPowerade

I think our problem is that blizzard managed to tell a better story 10 years ago with nothing but text and talking heads. It was grand, dark and mysterious. Everything about it was beautifully done with the technology and tools available at the time. Now that they have SO much more it's just so sad to see it fall so far behind the original.

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Again, it depends on what you mean by "story." There are things that I absolutely love about WOL (many things) that SC1 never even broached, let alone did, let alone did successfully.

Was SC1 more structured, more cohesive, with more plot twists and a stronger narrative? Probably yes to most of those. But it suffered from that, too. It was grand in scope, but limited only to grandness. We saw nothing about the everyday existence of these people, what life is really like for Raynor and his gang. What it's like to not just see the HIGHLIGHTS reel of his adventures, but live them day-to-day. It had a stronger narrative, but I dare say it did not have a richer one.

Characters in SC1 were good characters, but for the most part they remained only that. Because their concerns were always so epic, you could never get close to them. SC2 is a lot more intimate. You have scenes like "Queen of Blades" -- SC1 could not have had anything remotely resembling this, and when I watch that cinematic, honest to God I have trouble believing that these are just computer generated images, and not real people. As far as plot goes, it's a complete non-scene -- the exact opposite of everything in SC1, which was driven, driven, driven. But as far as creating a compelling image of the K-Sector and the folks that inhabit it, it is so far above SC1's ambition that it's not even on that game's radar.

So if we boil it down to which had the better 'story' you might be right in going with SC1, but that's not as complete and total a victory as you make it sound. It turns out there's a lot more to games than that.

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Characters in SC1 were good characters, but for the most part they remained only that. Because their concerns were always so epic, you could never get close to them. SC2 is a lot more intimate.

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Screw intimate man. The SC universe is a big universe, it's boring to limit yourself to Mr Rebel Raynor and see his everyday life. I don't care about that in a universe that's way bigger than him.

If you think about it the story related with the Zerg is so bad. 4 Years after the BW, Kerrigan has been evolving her race. She had finished demolishing everybody else, and ruled the whole sector. Then what? Mr Raynor hunts a lame artifact and Kerrigan, with her cheesy lines and attempts at being 'bad' fail in every mission against Raynor. I mean, really? Your huge army of Zerg failed against Raynor and his 1 battlecruiser crew? You know how retarded that sounds?

Not only that, Raynor and HALF A FLEET manage to spearhead an invasion into Char, the main planet of 10+ billion Zerg, and defend themselves there for a long time before finally activating the Artifact.

I don't even know why they needed to land on the planet to charge it, I mean... they couldn't charge it beforehand or what?

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Screw intimate man. The SC universe is a big universe, it's boring to limit yourself to Mr Rebel Raynor and see his everyday life. I don't care about that in a universe that's way bigger than him.

If you think about it the story related with the Zerg is so bad. 4 Years after the BW, Kerrigan has been evolving her race. She had finished demolishing everybody else, and ruled the whole sector. Then what? Mr Raynor hunts a lame artifact and Kerrigan, with her cheesy lines and attempts at being 'bad' fail in every mission against Raynor. I mean, really? Your huge army of Zerg failed against Raynor and his 1 battlecruiser crew? You know how retarded that sounds?

Not only that, Raynor and HALF A FLEET manage to spearhead an invasion into Char, the main planet of 10+ billion Zerg, and defend themselves there for a long time before finally activating the Artifact.

I don't even know why they needed to land on the planet to charge it, I mean... they couldn't charge it beforehand or what?

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If you read the OP you'd know that I agree on all those counts, and raised them myself. My point has never been that SC2 has a good story, or that it could not have found a better balance between the epic and the intimate.

Merely that SC2 is not an outright setback. It is a different sort of success, and I do regret that it could not be both things at once more than it is. But given the lessons Blizz must have learned here, it's my hope that Heart and Void will combine the best aspects of both, and deliver a product that will be superior in every way, instead of being just as good -- but at different things.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Screw intimate man. The SC universe is a big universe, it's boring to limit yourself to Mr Rebel Raynor and see his everyday life. I don't care about that in a universe that's way bigger than him.

If you think about it the story related with the Zerg is so bad. 4 Years after the BW, Kerrigan has been evolving her race. She had finished demolishing everybody else, and ruled the whole sector. Then what? Mr Raynor hunts a lame artifact and Kerrigan, with her cheesy lines and attempts at being 'bad' fail in every mission against Raynor. I mean, really? Your huge army of Zerg failed against Raynor and his 1 battlecruiser crew? You know how retarded that sounds?

Not only that, Raynor and HALF A FLEET manage to spearhead an invasion into Char, the main planet of 10+ billion Zerg, and defend themselves there for a long time before finally activating the Artifact.

I don't even know why they needed to land on the planet to charge it, I mean... they couldn't charge it beforehand or what?

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I think if you look back at all of Blizzard's past games, that has always been how it worked; when playing a campaign, the player's faction always wins. Sure, there may be an occasional failure mentioned somewhere but this is always someone else and happens off-screen, and often times only serves as a set-up for the player to eventually come up on top. The closest we ever saw was when Stukov died during the BW Terran mission and even then, the player still wound up saving (and thereby gaining) the Psi Disruptor.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

I think if you look back at all of Blizzard's past games, that has always been how it worked; when playing a campaign, the player's faction always wins. Sure, there may be an occasional failure mentioned somewhere but this is always someone else and happens off-screen, and often times only serves as a set-up for the player to eventually come up on top. The closest we ever saw was when Stukov died during the BW Terran mission and even then, the player still wound up saving (and thereby gaining) the Psi Disruptor.

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Actually, that's not entirely true. TFT has plenty of missions where the protagonists manage to kill stuff but don't really come out ahead (at all), and one mission where the protagonist explicitly loses (Maiev in Sargeras's Tomb) in every conceivable way.

Even back in SC1 days you had stuff like Raynor destroying the Infested Command Center and being punished for it, Raynor and Kerrigan being betrayed and not "winning" that mission at all, Kerrigan fighting Tassadar while Zeratul happily slays Zazz. Like "Cutthroat" only much more meaningful.

I don't think it's particularly fair to let Blizzard off the hook on this one.

My bad on Sargeras' Tomb; kind of forgot that one (though again, a one off). With regards to the SC1 events, that's precisely what I'm getting at; the player succeeds at what s/he sets off to do where as the true 'failures' only happen off-screen to someone else (i.e. it's not exactly the player/Kerrigan's fault that Zasz could not hold his own. This is akin to what's going on in SC2; Raynor gets his little successes. Meanwhile, the K-Sector at large is being turned upside down by Kerrigan's forces.

On a related note, does anyone find it a tad suspicious how the Moebius Foundation (and by extension, Raynor) seem to always know the location of the Artifacts in advance of Kerrigan? Because really, that's the main reason why Raynor is succeeding. There might be a plot reason for this:

Hidden Content:

'Narud' = 'Duran' backwards

And if you count the side stories, Raynor does encounter some 'failures' as well. For instance, you have the choice of being unable to save the colonists at Haven. Even saving them doesn't necessarily mean Hanson wasn't infested all along and that you just let loose an infested colony. But mainly, I think the reason people feel this way is beause, as previously mentioned, the antagonists are largely passive and do not come after you.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Screw intimate man. The SC universe is a big universe, it's boring to limit yourself to Mr Rebel Raynor and see his everyday life. I don't care about that in a universe that's way bigger than him.

If you think about it the story related with the Zerg is so bad. 4 Years after the BW, Kerrigan has been evolving her race. She had finished demolishing everybody else, and ruled the whole sector. Then what? Mr Raynor hunts a lame artifact and Kerrigan, with her cheesy lines and attempts at being 'bad' fail in every mission against Raynor. I mean, really? Your huge army of Zerg failed against Raynor and his 1 battlecruiser crew? You know how retarded that sounds?

Not only that, Raynor and HALF A FLEET manage to spearhead an invasion into Char, the main planet of 10+ billion Zerg, and defend themselves there for a long time before finally activating the Artifact.

I don't even know why they needed to land on the planet to charge it, I mean... they couldn't charge it beforehand or what?

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The reason Raynor had it so easy was because all the zerg were not on char. Many of them were still invading and looking for artifacts when Jim went to Char.

Thanks for your thoughts PW - I found many of them interesting. I may disagree on a few things but I respect what you're saying. Reviews that have depth like this from our board members are going to help inform and provide depth to SC:L's official review. :D

~LoA

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The reason Raynor had it so easy was because all the zerg were not on char. Many of them were still invading and looking for artifacts when Jim went to Char.

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Right, where's your source for this?

Kerrigan could have easily pulled them all back at the same time that Raynor went to invade Char, or do you think she just got that much dumber and left her forces elsewhere? And even if she didn't, she has 10 PLUS BILLION Zerg on Char. How many do you think she needs to invade a planet? A billion? To hunt an artifact? And lose the artifact against 1 Hyperion crew each time?

Yeah, no matter how you spin it, its bad.

You really have to agree with pando

Remember wc3? The last mission?

Sure you could hold out but in the end it was futile, this tension was gone in sc2
I felt like I could hold forever and kerrigan showing up and keeps dying
I think the air or nydus was a mistake as you really should have been dealing with everything. Of course I must acknowledge that I don't know what to have there instead.

But I just don't feel like
- My numbers are dwindling
- The zerg supremacy
- The powerful kerrigan
- The desperation
- The struggle

Again like before running away from the dominion had no tension
the last struggle had no tension as well.

All of a sudden, ups guess we beat the swarm.


However
I do belive that the ending of this serie will be both grand and epic
So in my opinion wings of liberty does not live, but as a stepping stone it might be incredible, the answer will come with legacy of the void and heart of the swarm

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Right, where's your source for this?

Kerrigan could have easily pulled them all back at the same time that Raynor went to invade Char, or do you think she just got that much dumber and left her forces elsewhere? And even if she didn't, she has 10 PLUS BILLION Zerg on Char. How many do you think she needs to invade a planet? A billion? To hunt an artifact? And lose the artifact against 1 Hyperion crew each time?

Yeah, no matter how you spin it, its bad.

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One of the news cast says that the Zerg started retreating from their colonies back to Char.

So yes, the main force was on the attack but was on their way back, obviously Raynor saved Kerrigan before they arrived.

and I will agree with you judgment PW, not wholeheartly yet you made alot of good points
cliche moments in campaign, good voice acting overall despite Trisha's acting or Kerrigan's lines, various missions yet with small downsides, epic cinematics as always, lot's of achivements

battle.net not fully functional
map editor without the units that were promised to be given, add to that if bn is down you can't use it
perfomance issues that need to be fixed

I thought kerrigan was changed in someway just taking from the Zeratul vs Kerrigan cinematic? When did that event happen btw? Before the invasion of the Terran sector or during and right before the Zerg retreat?

The WoL campaign "suffers" from being 1/3rd of the main plot. It doesn´t tell a whole story for the Terrans like even the very first Terran campaign alone did. Back then they fit in the whole fall of the Confederation. That was a story in itself and concluded. In WoL the only conclusions are the Zerg invasion and the optional subplots. They most likely want to keep Raynor as main character (next to Kerrigan) so they didn´t want to conlcude his main conflicts, the Rebellion against Mengsk and how to deal with Kerrigan. (As he said himself: "What, that I abandoned her or that she killed 8 Million People?")

BUT the story in WoL is told much much better, for example the whole Colonist subplot would have been one single mission at best in the original SC. The zombie mission is theoretically total filler but it makes the descision around Haven much more relevant. "We spend so much time saving them and now we have to purge them ourselves?"

I also think there is a bit of a misunderstanding around Tychus. His "betrayal" wasn´t a twist, the intro practically spoiled it and in almost every scene with him he tries to get Raynor to give up on Kerrigan. He literally tries to hook up Raynor with every Female they meet and argues that Kerrigan, even IF Raynor convinces her to not eat his face, would still be guilty of countless murders.
The point is that Tychus is Raynors pal and Raynor owes him. Raynor knows WAY before that Tychus has no choice, the thing about the end is not Tychus "obeying" Mengsk but Raynor killing (shooting?) him to save Kerrigan who is basically Spacehitler at that point. Remember that Zeratuls Missions are optional, they are NOT what motivates Raynor into saving Kerrigan.

Kerrigan as Villain was kinda poor since they
a) were introducing a bigger threath,
b) she is intentionally halfvictim and
c) she is the protagonist for HotS.
The difference to Broodwars is that back then she was a real villian with actual personal motivations (revenge) who uses the Zerg as tools. Back then she followed her own goals. The only reason she had to stop at the end of Broodwar was mainly that Blizzard wanted to be able to make SC2 at some point.
In WoL she is being controled like the Overmind was retconned into being. She really has no motivation, she is forced into action to attack because the artifact was discovered. The main villian knows that it can stop his plans so he uses the Zerg to find and (try to) destroy it.
The real issue isn´t that she is constantly loosing (she is the only really unstoppable threath in the game, in any other case you can just kill the "overwhelming sieging force", in fact there are achivements for exactly that) but that she is acting against her own and the Zergs interests. Her whole message during Zeratuls first mission is "We are doomed, accept it".
In the end we have "The voice in the Dark" who is very undefined, Mengsk who isn´t really dealt with, the Teldarim who are "don´t worry THESE Protoss are assholes" and Kerrigan who is remote controlled as Villians in the Game. That is alright in the first third of a Story but it´s admitedly lacking lacking as standalone. The conlusion to WoL is lacking because it isn´t a conclusion.

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Originally Posted by unentschieden

In WoL she is being controled like the Overmind was retconned into being. She really has no motivation, she is forced into action to attack because the artifact was discovered. The main villian knows that it can stop his plans so he uses the Zerg to find and (try to) destroy it.
The real issue isn´t that she is constantly loosing (she is the only really unstoppable threath in the game, in any other case you can just kill the "overwhelming sieging force", in fact there are achivements for exactly that) but that she is acting against her own and the Zergs interests. Her whole message during Zeratuls first mission is "We are doomed, accept it".
In the end we have "The voice in the Dark" who is very undefined, Mengsk who isn´t really dealt with, the Teldarim who are "don´t worry THESE Protoss are assholes" and Kerrigan who is remote controlled as Villians in the Game.

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I agree with most of what you said, but you misunderstood (Infested) Kerrigan's situation: she wasn't being controlled like the Overmind, she has always been free willed since the destruction of the Overmind, and WoL makes no exception.
The hole point of the Overmind creating her was that she wouldn't have been controlled as he(/she/it?) was.

And that's why I didn't like her much in this game, because her resignation to be destroyed was totally out of character for someone like her... and if she was so resigned to die anyway, why did she go through all the trouble of sending most of her forces in search of the artifact pieces?

She really felt like a minor villain without a clear motivation during the hole campaign, so I'm glad she was de-infestated in the end, that's something that can breath new air into her character: the possible implications are endless, my bet is that she will pretend to be "good" in order to be helped in gaining control of the Zerg again, much like she did in Brood War, ready to backstab her "allies" once she is done.

I agree but it´s also the reason I think she was being controlled, he actions don´t make sense otherwise. The overmind gave her free will from himself but he is unable to create a being free from the "Voice in the Dark". He needed a being that controled the Zerg without BEING a Zerg. Kerrigan being deinfested was part of the Overminds plan but not part of the vision because Blizzard didn´t want to spoil the ending.
If she is controlled it makes sense that she would be forced to try to destroy the one thing that would break the control.