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Are you saying that you think the tape the reporter played was the totality of the message that Raynor transmitted? That's not the case, nor was it stated or implied by the game. The reporter simply wanted a comment on that particular section of what was transmitted.Quote:
My point is that Raynor discovers much more incriminating statements which he for some crazy reason doesn't use.
In short, everyone already heard this, but they wanted to get Mengsk's reaction to that particular part.
So why is that part more controversial, than the other parts you believe Raynor also transmitted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Because the Confederacy was "them". The "see it burned to ashes around me" includes "us", from the perspective of the audience. However heinous destroying Tarsonis was, what the threat implies is that he can do it to you.Quote:
So why is that part more controversial, than the other parts you believe Raynor also transmitted?
Go back to the ending of Kill Bill Part 2. When the Bride says that yes, she knew Bill was the kind of person who could massacre a bunch of people at a wedding rehearsal. But she didn't think he could do it to her; she thought she was exempt.
This line shows that nobody is exempt from Mengsk's potential wrath.
That's pretty vague. Why use so vague statements (especially since the context was during a revolution) instead of using the order Mengsk gave of planting the Psi Disrupters... That's millions of time worse. That's a direct proof.
Threatening to kill anyone who opposes your rule is "pretty vague"?Quote:
That's pretty vague.
I don't know about you, but that statement is anything but vague. :P That is a very bold and direct threat he just made, especially given the previous question Kate asked before playing that recording.
Oh absolutely, kill could mean anything. Are you gonna shoot them, nuke them, strange them, send assassins after them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Actually, what made the statement so controversial is that until then, Mengsk's rule was founded on the concept that he took on the role out of an altruistic sense of responsibility for the betterment of Terran-kind (referred to in his previous interview about the massacre on Tarsonis where he criticised the interviewer for talking about its convenience in terms of his coming to power). His statement that he would sooner let the sector burn to the groud before relinquishing power undermines that base principle.
Lol at the commercial "lvl 800 tauren", "the rouges do it from behind". Etc.
He doesn't threaten to kill anyone directly. He only says it should be his "good" way of ruling, or everything might as well die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
To me it only implies what it says, that he will either rule the Koprulu sector (due to his supposed altruistic view of how it is best governed) or see it burnt around him (in the sense that all the bad in the sector might as well die - not by his hand, but by the conflict itself - if he can't govern it into a right direction).
Many revolutions have "mottos" like "...... or Death!" It's that line of thought I've seen this statement in.
I've seen the clip again a couple of times now, and I can now see it's more controversial than I previously thought. Yet I can't see how the order to plant the PSI Emitters is not a better proof of him being an tyrannical, powerhungry maniac.
Except the "or death!" part is their death, not their enemies. They're saying we either win or die. They're not saying we either win or kill everyone.Quote:
Many revolutions have "mottos" like "...... or Death!" It's that line of thought I've seen this statement in.
More specifically, that statement clearly says "Either I rule the new kingdom, or the new kingdom dies." It can't be justified any other way. This 'revolution' Mengsk created was supposedly for the sake of freeing the people, and yet that statement spits in the face of that very thing the Sons of Korhal were fighting for. Whether it was during a revolution or not, no matter which way you spin it, there is no vagueness in what he was getting across, therefore everyone else understood perfectly.
It's not about controversy, though. Both quotes paint Mengsk as a bad guy, but only one of them also paints him as a complete and total hypocrite. The use of Psi Disruptors, bad as it is, doesn't invalidate any claim that Mengsk has made about his altruistic intentions in taking up the throne.Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessMonkey
Imagine she actually asks him, "care to explain this stuff about the Psi Disruptor?" What would be his response?
"Yes, I activated the Psi Disruptor... a weapon the Confederacy had developed! A weapon they had already used to destroy worlds like Mar Sara from within! I grieve over every innocent life lost in that war, but had I not used this weapon, there's no telling who the Confederates would have turned on next! It could have been your world -- or your world -- or yours."
Basically, with Mengsk's skill at rhetoric, that question left him far too much weasel room. Whereas a direct contradiction? You saw the results. There was absolutely nothing to say.
Yes, I can see that happening. I still think that since it's a fact it would be more incriminating in a courthouse, (though the chances of Mengsk being prosecuted are pretty slim, hehe).Quote:
Originally Posted by pure.Wasted
I can see now why they use that statement in stead, yet I was very baffled when I first saw the cinematic.
Anyhoo, just to disagree some more, I can't see how someone who doesn't win in the end, can be able to kill everyone off. But I'll leave it at that. Maybe Mengsk was planning to nuke all terran settlements in the Koprulu sector, had he not won the revolution... :D
At one point I kind of assumed the "see it burnt to ashes around me" meant that Mengsk thought only he was capable of uniting mankind, otherwise the Zerg and Protoss would raze them all to the ground... but I guess clearly that's not what it means.
And now you're thinking WAY too hard into it. It's a declaration from a tyrant. :P Raynor voices his disagreement, Mengsk makes the threat/ultimatum. Raynor ends up recording that part of the conversation. End of story. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by BusinessMonkey
This is now in the LORE forum. We're supposed to think hard into aspects of the SC story. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AegisKHAOS
This ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Raynor transmitted the entire message and the reporter was very bold in asking about that particular segment right in front of him in a press conference. Mengsk didn't particularly handle it well, despite the fact that he could have (per sc1 scheming Mengsk).
~LoA
I'd say that this was the most objectionable part, that Mengsk was not properly prepped for that press conference. He should have expected someone to throw his words at him at the conference, and he should have had a prepared response.Quote:
Mengsk didn't particularly handle it well, despite the fact that he could have (per sc1 scheming Mengsk).
While the news reports were humorous and Kate is cute, I felt it was out of place. I prefer subtle comic relief that doesn't break the overall darkness of the SC lore. Those news reports were too blunt in their attempt to be funny, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang
I considered the news reports funny but also considered the report as how effective Mengsk was controlling the media...though one of his most powerful tools just went bye bye. Somewhere Mr. Liberty is grinning to himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtossHierarch
If by that, you mean not very well, then yes. For all the censoring, Lockwell still often got her point across, making positive reports about Raynor and other paramilitary groups. Indeed, to the objective eye, Emperor Arcturus Mengsk of the Terran Dominion (as oppsed to Gen. Mengsk of the Sons of Korhal terrorist group) did not really show himself to be much of a cruel ruler by any stretch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetBlue
Kate, like Raynor's victories, were marginalized if not out-right silenced. It took the evidence from the remains of that adjutant to cause the reckus needed to weaken Mengsk's hold. Before that Kate "got her point across" but it fell on deaf ears mostly, at least in comparison to the evidence later brought on against Mengsk...for all to see and hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. peasant
Which is more the recipients' ears that is the issue rather than Kate's message. For them not to be moved by it would suggest they had no reason to. This, to me, would suggest that most of the UNN's viewers are pro-Dominion and that Mengsk's rule does not mistreat them.