The idea is to make piracy hard, not impossible. Easy piracy means casual piracy; hard piracy means piracy only from the dedicated pirates who weren't going to buy your game anyway.Quote:
Anyways, if it's to stop piracy, it's hopeless.
Printable View
The idea is to make piracy hard, not impossible. Easy piracy means casual piracy; hard piracy means piracy only from the dedicated pirates who weren't going to buy your game anyway.Quote:
Anyways, if it's to stop piracy, it's hopeless.
I think it's a bad idea to start a petition against something you only have partial information about.
than answer one fucking question:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Why the fuck nor the ISP admin, nor you or anyone can help fixing this? it's impossible for me to play with my neighbour on battle.net still! and your "explanation" doesn't help
Thats why I use the freaking LAN FFS to play with my neighbour!!
It's hard to answer that when you don't tell us why you can't play with your friend. What happens when you try to play with your friend? Have you tried blizzard tech support?Quote:
Originally Posted by spychi
I would find it funny if it turns out this is just some stupid issue that you and you friend overlooked, making this a more or less futile thread.
When we are joining a game 2vs2 or 1vs1, playing with random people, it starts and someone is or dropped or we have a slideshow because of the interfere of the outside IP (or some shit like that), no one can do shit about it.
When you host, can ppl join your game?Quote:
Originally Posted by spychi
Yes they can, I have the ports fowarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Keep in mind just because it doesn't work in SC1 doesn't mean it won't in SC2. It's a whole new Bnet, new network coding, built from the ground up.
The bad news, is that anti-piracy measures are nearly always a hassle for the legitimate buyers. You now need an internet connection just to play the damn game. You organize a lanparty, but the internet connection is down? No game boys...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
At the very least, send the usage statistics/whatever if there is an internet connection, but allow the game to be created if there isn't any.
I expect it to work very fast if all computers are in a LAN, even if you need battle.net to create the game. If using battle.net affects the game's speed, i think it's the worse idea, ever.
About ICCup, didn't Blizzard itself release the battle.net code, or i'm mistaken? Anyways, it's better there than in battle.net, where everybody plays money maps, and it's full of hackers, and the forums filled with trolls.
That right there is the crux of the issue. Requiring an internet connection locks out a lot of people from playing multiplayer whenever they want. Remember that we're in the middle of an economic crisis. Internet may be more widespread than in 1998, but we still have a long way to go before we can just assume that everyone has readily accessible high-speed internet. And the bad economy just makes it even worse, especially since many people have no choice but to play through LAN, and there are plenty of LAN parties without internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
I understand Blizzard wants people playing Battlenet, but removing LAN entirely isn't the answer. Only hardcore fanboys are going to go through the trouble to purchase high-speed internet just so they play multiplayer with other people in their own damn house! Everyone else is either just gonna pirate, or not play altogether.
Blizzard needs to realize that most people who don't play Bnet do so because Bnet isn't all that great. If they want more people to play Bnet, then all they have to do is make it as fun as possible. Taking away our alternatives in order to shove it down our throats will only piss people off.
I think that in blizzard's case they can assume that there is readily accessible INTERNET. It's not confirmed that high speed is required so we can always assume modem speed is an option (but unlikely due to the removal of LAN shows a forward thinking angle)Quote:
Originally Posted by Moradon
Actually, the majority of people I know with internet have a source of speed that's acceptable for starcraft. You don't need the best of the best connection to play it, in theory it could be played on modem which would extend the ability further to those outside of the primary speed grouping. They also have entire game communities they are pulling into b.net. You have 12 million players who will be REQUIRED to register into battle.net. I'm sure a very large chunk of them will be buying SC2 and not even look at any of it's forums and Blizzard already knows that each and every one of them has an able internet connection, otherwise they couldn't play wow.Quote:
Only hardcore fanboys are going to go through the trouble to purchase high-speed internet just so they play multiplayer with other people in their own damn house!
I believe that improving battle.net to a new level is their intent. They've taken genres and reinvented them to a point of exceeding expectations... There is nothing against the possibility of taking successes like steam and xbox live and bringing their technology to the next level.Quote:
Blizzard needs to realize that most people who don't play Bnet do so because Bnet isn't all that great. If they want more people to play Bnet, then all they have to do is make it as fun as possible. Taking away our alternatives in order to shove it down our throats will only piss people off.
Despite the conversation, it's still too early to talk about this subject as everything we bring up is PURELY opinion and based on very little factual data. All we have confirmed is LAN is out, something will replace it of higher technological value and Rob Pardo confirmed it's for "Quality Multiplayer expirience, reducing piracy and more" which is obvious.
We will have facts when battle.net 2.0 is released, I'll return to this thread when that happens.
I don't think this has anything to do with piracy.
My guess about their motivation behind no LAN play is that they don’t think they are making a game, they think they are making an “e-sport”.
South Korea has turned SC1 into a huge event on TV. What does Blizzard get out of that? They can have a televised event with sponsors, commercials, selling tickets to a live crowd of thousands of people, but as far as I know, Blizzard is not involved at all and does not see a penny beyond selling the original game.
Having everything on B.Net is going to put Blizzard in control. You want to put a game on their servers on TV? I bet they get a piece of the action now.
From our point of view: 3 guys in the same room can’t play a LAN game.
From Blizzard’s point of view: they want to be involved if you have 3000 people in the same room.
If you look at games like MMOs (while the are completely different games -- more specifically WoW), they require internet access for all the game's content. Entire families play that game.
I understand that there was people without internet, but you have to realize that those people are far and few between. Sorry for those that get screwed over by this, but this is blizzard just protecting their software (i find it ironic that they're using a free service to protect their software).
I highly doubt that the connection to battle.net will have any effect on the latency of the players in a game if they're on a LAN with you. I agree that this would be a foolish move on blizzard's part if they decided to force latency in games, but I doubt that that will be the case. It doesn't seem like blizzard would really like to shoot themselves in the foot.
Blizzard has recently become involved in the WoW, WC3, and SC scenes through the Korean company, GOMTV. While you could be right, can you really blame them for such a thing? By creating a game, they have first hand access to entire industry of entertainment that could rise from it. If they decide to harness that industry and take control of it (considering no one else in the US has) then I happily welcome it. Bring me games of professional starcraft, warcraft, and WoW. No one else in America's willing to.Quote:
I don't think this has anything to do with piracy.
My guess about their motivation behind no LAN play is that they don’t think they are making a game, they think they are making an “e-sport”.
South Korea has turned SC1 into a huge event on TV. What does Blizzard get out of that? They can have a televised event with sponsors, commercials, selling tickets to a live crowd of thousands of people, but as far as I know, Blizzard is not involved at all and does not see a penny beyond selling the original game.
Having everything on B.Net is going to put Blizzard in control. You want to put a game on their servers on TV? I bet they get a piece of the action now.
From our point of view: 3 guys in the same room can’t play a LAN game.
From Blizzard’s point of view: they want to be involved if you have 3000 people in the same room.
If blizzard were to do something that allowed them to broadcast e-sports, would you really be that opposed to it?
If my post sounded negative, I didn't mean it to be. I agree that Blizzard should benefit financially from e-sports above and beyond simply sellling the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercatosis
I want a Battle.Net with lots of amazing features that is free for the average joe like me because they make all their cash from e-sports.
Eh. This change is really just something that's become the norm across all gaming...
You can't play with somebody in the same room as you anymore. Even on console games it's becoming rarer, just so that you can play with 20 people over the internet... and damn... if I don't find it utterly ridiculous.
Yes, you can! You just have to do it over B.Net. Odds are, B.Net won't make this particularly difficult. You make a game, lock it, invite your friends and poof: you're playing a game next to you.Quote:
You can't play with somebody in the same room as you anymore.
Do you know how much effort split-screen takes to implement?Quote:
Even on console games it's becoming rarer, just so that you can play with 20 people over the internet...
It's also annoying when you don't have a 60' TV to split the screen with 3 other players.
In order for Battle.net to connect you to your "friend" in the same room with you, it will still have to use an IPX or UDP connection using your network hub's local IP (usually 192.168.0.#) instead of connecting to your internet's IP (usually a bunch of random numbers).
StarCraft 2 would have to check for games hosted on their Battle.net servers as well as games hosted across your local network and connect through the appropriately.
Otherwise, you and your friend (who are playing in the same room) will be playing with the lag of both computers sending out an internet signal all the way out to Blizzard's servers and back again. Which, of course would be ridiculous if you're wired side-by-side, you know?
Likely (must be confirmed first) even if you are not connected to the internet you'll still be able to see local games hosted on your network (as Company of Heroes does).
Found something: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ot-Support-LAN
Quote:
According to Pardo, the choice to exclude LAN games "is because of the planned technology to be incorporated into Battle.net," which will be revealed at a later date.
It depends on how they implement it in B.net. If all you need to do is create a game and send your friend an invite, then it doesn't have to do any of that.Quote:
StarCraft 2 would have to check for games hosted on their Battle.net servers as well as games hosted across your local network and connect through the appropriately.
StarCraft's internet is peer-to-peer (or, if it's client-server, the hosting machine is the server). There is no sending out to B.Net while you're playing (unless it's fetching some statistics information). This is why B.Net has remained free; it's just a matchmaking service. It's cheap.Quote:
Otherwise, you and your friend (who are playing in the same room) will be playing with the lag of both computers sending out an internet signal all the way out to Blizzard's servers and back again.
We should hope that SC2 will not suffer too much from piracy or SC3 may well be Xbox 480 exclusive or not made at all. This may be an unfortunate for us customers but necessary measure to limit the piracy. A sacrifice today for larger gains tommorow.
I say just wait to see what they have and then rant at them about it. They wont change their mind yet...I mean..you don't even know WHAT they have going that they are keeping from us. Then if you don't like it.. Well, you know what to do.
And..I am in support of them putting LAN back in, because I really don't want to have an account with B-net just to play it. (I do have an account, though.)
Okay, I hope that's the case then. I don't use LAN, though. Never have. (Never understood it) I was more commenting on a growing trend I've been seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Don't really care to be honest. I want to play with my friends when they're in the same room as me.Quote:
Do you know how much effort split-screen takes to implement?
Peer to peer with your internet IP. The other computers in your room would be going to your Internet Service Provider and back again to connect to the inernet IP of your internet router (rather than the sub-domain addresses from your LAN).Quote:
StarCraft's internet is peer-to-peer (or, if it's client-server, the hosting machine is the server). There is no sending out to B.Net while you're playing (unless it's fetching some statistics information). This is why B.Net has remained free; it's just a matchmaking service. It's cheap.Quote:
Otherwise, you and your friend (who are playing in the same room) will be playing with the lag of both computers sending out an internet signal all the way out to Blizzard's servers and back again.
Battle.net will have to be coded to detect both internet IP's and Local IP's through your network hub and use IPX or UDP, as I said. Which... isn't too difficult, that's why I find it silly that there's even a question of whether or not to allow it.
Now off-line LAN is a different issue. I'd suggest that a player would have had to have logged into your Battle.net account at least once before the off-line LAN functions. Obviously pirates will get around this, but hasn't the game industry learned from Spore? The pirates will get around it whether you like it or not, so punishing the innocent isn't the solution. The best you can do is keep the honest people honest and stop there.
I really would not attribute the petition to such a change. For god sack man look at the difference in the Zerg buildings, it has nothing to do with a petition for "horrible ugly zerg buildings". It is Blizzards development processes, nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leord
With that being said, I'm quite upset that they are removing the LAN option from the game. As a business position I understand their reasoning, but as customer I'm am saddened by this move.