Roland, what do you mean by "Ghost Section of the Hyperion"?
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Roland, what do you mean by "Ghost Section of the Hyperion"?
My bad, I was unclear. I mean in the armory. You can see some of the units appear in the background, and you get information if you click on them. There is only a rifle at the ghost section, but if you wait, Nova uncloaks, then almost immediately recloaks.
EDIT:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1953/novay.jpg
Just as she uncloaks.
Her legs are already spread! Go get her boys!
*start unzipping pants*Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Oh she ain' gettin' away tis time!
Shubop, you haven't left this thread since I posted that picture. I'm... disturbed.
Oh what? Sorry but I can't hear you over the sound of skintight latex ripping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland
I don't get what people like about Nova.
She's attractive, fit, and could kick your ass. Plus she wears tight clothes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muspelli
Could have something to do with:Quote:
Originally Posted by Muspelli
Hidden Content:
Still not getting it? Let me help you some more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkq1O...eature=related
Ha ha, there are now 3 lurkers in this thread...
Oh. . . .
Hey, speaking of oversexualizing a video game character for no reason, anyone else remember that statue of Nova that clearly has a camel-toe?
The Spectres make for a way cooler 'ghost section'.
Also, anyone notice how every description of every Terran unit makes it sound like the Terrans are notorious for either being sloppy or doing more damage to their allies than their enemies?
And here we are all wondering how Terrans are still existing as a race.
I wonder why none of you considered the reason that made me decide; what it did to Raynor.
If you pick Nova, Raynor decides that you cannot use whatever means to win the war against Mengsk, which the decision ultimately revolves around.
If you pick Tosh, you say "screw morality, we got a war to win", and that, I could not allow. Simply because it breaks Raynor’s spirit. “The war will be won by people like us, but lead by people like you” (paraphrasing Raynor)
It was under this assumption I also picked the Save/purify Haven. Sure, the Infestation might still be there on Haven, but if it keeps our Hero standing by his ideals, then so be it.
I went with Nova, haha how can you say no to her!
What made me decide to choose Nova, was the fact that the in-game text under Tosh's portrait said "release his Spectre allies", or something like that. No mention of political prisoners whatsoever. Also, he does a very bad job at looking credible and defending from Nova's accusations.
However, i would had chosen to not help any of them if i had the option. I would simply rofl at Nova for thinking i'm going to trust a Dominion assasin, and say to Tosh that he can try to free his friends himself, if he's going to keep all his little secrets.
But... Nova is Azula. And Azula always lies! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoywolf
I picked Tosh to see what the Spectres were all about. Plus he was an interesting character.
If you still have Hanson on board, and talk to her after completing Breakout, she will tell you that she studied Nova's claims and found no evidence that supports her.
She talks a bit about spectres being no more susceptible to becoming psychotic than regular humans - She actually finishes talking by saying: "Nova lied to us"
After the Tosh mission ends, Raynor says to Horner that he will have his brighter future, but it isn't for people like us (referring to him and Tosh). So, siding with Tosh isn't probably a very moral choice. There were political prisoners there (Matt says so), but also Spectres and probably all sort of criminals.
I also think the regular ghost unit you get from siding with Nova is the better unit since it has snipe and you can upgrade the range for them in the armory. At the end of the day though it really doesn't matter who you pick story wise because there isn't much of a impact on the campaign as a whole. Unless the decisions you make will carry over into the expansions which I feel won't happen for some reason. I would say just side with what character you are more interested in and what variation of ghost you want.
It's funny, but now that i think about it, i didn't built even a single Ghost. The output damage from the biomech ball is just so demented high, that why bother?
That is a great point and the reason I initially liked the desicions when they popped up. Unfortunately Blizzard didn´t think of having that being part of the further plot - no matter if Raynor is a idealist (Nova+Hanson) or driven by revenge and regrett (Tosh+Selendis) in the end he choses to ally with the Dominion and to hope against all odds that Kerrigan can be "cured". He eventually choses to kill his best friend instead of letting him kill "Spacehitler" Kerrigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoo
IMO siding with Tosh was morally BETTER choice, not to mention you still have a valuable ally. Sure, Tosh didn't tell you everything about his plans with the spectres; and he is driven by vengence, but he surely isn't entirely evil. He's always at your side, giving you valuable advices and warning you about the danger (he was right about Tychus and Ariel). He's also loyal to his spectre friends. And if you look at him at the end of the cutscene after you help him, you'll notice that he's somewhat touched by Raynor's words, perhaps even agreeing with Matt's idealistic views deep inside. I believe there's more good than evil in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoo
Not to mention you also free many intellectuals, philosophers that dared to oppose Mengsk.
Siding with Nova, on the other hand is something both awful and reckless. You're betraying your comrade because of some unverified information (that proved to be false later on) from your worst enemy's agent? Doesn't make much sense.
EDIT: As to the Hanson/Selendis dilemma, it wasn't an evil/good choice. Either way was morally right - Raynor just had to choose lesser evil. It was more of a reason/heart choice: helping colonists seems like a noble decision, but common sense tells you that killing infested people before it could turn into mass epidemic would save more lives.
That's actually a great point, I just choose to approach it from a different angle. I think that Raynor is a more interesting character carrying that baggage. I think the drama vs. humor spin of the tag-along cinematics goes a long way to proving that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoo
Nova is a liar and I don't know why anyone would choose to ally themselves with a Dominion assassin.
Is it not morally bad as well to backstab an ally just because a Dominion Ghost lied to you about them being psychopaths?
And yes, Tosh just wanted to save his Spectre buddies, but so what? What proof do any of you have that the Spectres were even bad guys to begin with? For all we know they have the exact same goals as Raynor. They are loyal, they owe him everything, and Tosh says so himself.
How is it breaking Raynor's spirit? That quote doesn't prove anything, because Raynor is the one who ultimately wants to put a bullet in Mengsk's skull, so regardless of the Spectre mission, his morality is the same.Quote:
If you pick Tosh, you say "screw morality, we got a war to win", and that, I could not allow. Simply because it breaks Raynor’s spirit. “The war will be won by people like us, but lead by people like you” (paraphrasing Raynor)
The fact is that Blizzard wanted to play safe, and none of the choices you make really turn Raynor any darker.
If you go with Nova, you don't allow anyone in a max security prison to escape, just because a totally random guy whose real goals aren't clear, and neither what would be the outcome of freeing everyone there. Also, every single errand you run for Tosh is a little objetionable, where you basically must do things like landing in a Protoss settlement and stealing something they consider sacred for some money.
If you ally with Tosh, you free the guys and nothing bads happends, really. In fact, nothing at all happends, right? Neither with the Spectres, nor any of the prisoners you freed, you just have your Spectres instead of Ghosts.
The only reasonable choice in that situation, was to walk away, as you couldn't really thust neither Nova nor Tosh.
Still, Tosh was a very strange character. Was good to talk with him, and looked like a wise guy, but he didn't really ever go straight and say what the hell did he wanted to accomplish, keeping his little secrets all the time, even when you tell him about everything that happends.
The best example is the Haven mission. If you go against the Protoss, there's almost no infestation there, just some caged infested guys in healthy settlements, so you're right to go against the Protoss, as burning the settlements was completely unnecessary. If you decide to cleanse the settlements, the planet is very seriously fucked-up, and it would be ridiculous to anyone to go down there and try to combat the infestation, as there where Zerg units and structures everywhere. When you save a settlement from the infestation structures, people thanks you from saving their lives.
To resume: the reality is modified depending on what you choose, to reveal your choice as quite acceptable, no mater what you chosen.
That is what I'm saying, in the end it really doesn't matter what you choose as there are no real consequences at all.
The morality of attacking a Protoss settlement to take artifacts they consider sacred for some money can also differ on your point of view. I mean it is a Taldarim settlement which could be viewed as violent religious fanatics. The Taldarim even captured other Protoss that don't believe exactly the way they do.
How are there no consequences? You decide whether a character (Tosh) lives or dies. You also decide the fate of all the prisoners on New Folsom. :#Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessSky
Did you guys expect them to have a different ending and different pre-rendered cinematic for each choice you made or something?
Yes, but there isn't any real consequence, like convicts killing random people. What was the difficult moral choice? The decision was difficult only because you know jack about what is really happening. You don't have any idea who is inside the prison, what will you encounter there, if there are really any political prisoners there, if the Spectres are going crazy and kill everyone else inside the ship, or pretty much anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
Who the hell was Tosh? A random guy that you didn't really know what he's doing, or what's his history, that pays you to do ethically questionable missions to recover some substances you don't know anything about, that always puts you in more trouble.
I think Tosh is the more sensible choice. As he says, "you do right by me, I'll do right by you". He didn't tell Raynor everything but all things considered, would you expect him to? Raynor wasn't sure he could trust Tosh, Tosh probably didn't fully trust Raynor either. They had a business relationship, not a personal partnership or an alliance. Tosh was just looking for someone to help out and Raynor was the man for the job. And he held up his ends of their dealings.
Tosh didn't ask too much of Raynor, just a couple of resource runs, it wasn't until New Folsom he challenge Raynor's ethics, but as Matt pointed out there were valid reasons to raid the facility to. And while Tosh sent Raynor on his missions for secretive and self-serving reasons, he made sure Raynor got paid for his efforts and ultimately came through supplying him with tactical data and new units as he promised. He was a bit shifty and mysterious but he kept his word when he gave it. And as we find out when we side with him he's ultimately a good guy, just more extreme in his rebellion than Raynor is.
Nova on the other hand is a re-socialized Dominion assassin. We're given no reason to trust her, and a lot of reasons to distrust her, like the fact she's hardwired to serve the Dominion and has been raised on Dominion propaganda. Of *course* she's going to say Tosh and his Spectres are psychotic killers, that's what she's been taught, and we know well by that point the Dominion will lie through its teeth to paint its enemies as evil. They teach Raynor is a fanatic terrorist, it is hard to imagine they'd do the same to Tosh?
I went with Ghosts the first time because I liked the extra bonus credits. Second time through the campaign I went with Tosh.
Also, I think Tosh and Matt represent the two extremes of what Raynor could become. Matt is the enthusiastic optimist freedom fighter, while Tosh is the cynical and hardened assassin. The way Raynor is in SC2, he go could do either road. You'll notice when Matt cheers for taking down Mengsk, and Tosh replies "there's just be another Mengsk after him" Raynor is silent for a moment, watching them argue until he steps in and sort of takes the middle road.
Uh what? Exactly what was ethically questionable about any of his missions?Quote:
Who the hell was Tosh? A random guy that you didn't really know what he's doing, or what's his history, that pays you to do ethically questionable missions to recover some substances you don't know anything about, that always puts you in more trouble.
Collecting gas... that's definitely ethically questionable.
That's how I've felt about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
It's like stealing a sacred relic from any religious group. Just imagine that the Vatican had the blood of Jesus, some country asks for it to do some research, the Vatican denies it, and then that country takes it by force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
And tha'ts exactly why the campaign sucks. No to mention bad voice acting, and overall sensation of cheapness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
I choose Tosh for few reasons, him being a cool guy, him beeing with me on the Hyperion for some time, him staying afterwards, him bringing specters, etc.
Everyone has secrets, so why would you mind if he has his...
I didn't mean there were no consequences at all just not "much" or any "real" consequences in the overall campaign itself. It doesn't affect anything else except for that specific mission. You don't see the effects of freeing the spectres and other prisoners on the Starcraft universe at any other point and the things that happen later on in my game will be the same as yours expect having or not having tosh and the spectres with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
It seems you misunderstood what point I was trying to get across, but Norfindel got it.
So the only one that understands you is the one that agrees with you? Interesting, EndlessSky.
I didn't say anything about anyone else not understanding me, just Gradius and apparently you now too since you are implying that the only ones I think understand, agree with me which is not true. By quoting Gradius and responding to his comments in my post I thought it was clear I focusing my response towards him.
Also if the mission had such consequence can you tell me who those prisoners were? Why they were in there and what they are doing now that they are free? Did Tosh join you in later missions and help you or provide his point of view? Did you see what effect freeing the spectres had on the Starcraft universe besides giving you a spectre variation ghost unit?
Well, Tosh hangs around if you side with him, and later mentions to Raynor he senses a traitor on-board. But besides that no, I don't think there's any appreciable consequences to the SC universe in either mission.Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessSky
As Matt pointed out, in breaking open the prison they freed murderers, psychopaths and the like, but also freed a lot of normal people who just spoke out against Mengsk. For some of the inmates their only crime was not falling in line behind the Emperor.
Tosh is awesome, but he was clearly shady from the beginning. I sided with Nova, but hope Tosh comes back from the dead in HotS. He makes an amazing villain.
Eh, he wasn't a villain really. Just a far more extreme and cynical rebel than Raynor.