[?Spoiler?] Thought on Recent Hero Portraits

To those keeping up to date, Blizzard has recently released images for a number of Protoss hero units; including Tassadar, Urun, Nyon, etc. As a number of sharp-eyed people have noticed, most of them are simply slightly modified versions of existing portraits and have so voiced their disappointment.

A thought has just occurred to me regarding them; could they simply be generic heroes made specially for the map editor a la Mojo and Gui Montag (i.e. they don't appear in the main campaign but are simply available so that map makers have hero units for all the main unit types). The portraits might simply be placeholder versions until the finalised ones are made for when (if at all) these characters appear in the Protoss campaign.

This makes sense to a degree since it would be surprising for Blizzard to lock in voice actors for such relatively small roles at this stage when the bulk of their voice work would only take place in a year or two's time. What do you all think? Yes? No?

Protoss have always helped Raynor, I'm sure they still remember him. They are probably in game. I'd put down money on it. If they have a portrait they will appear in WoL.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Protoss have always helped Raynor, I'm sure they still remember him. They are probably in game. I'd put down money on it. If they have a portrait they will appear in WoL.

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Exactly. There are even achievements related to Preservers, Selendis, Urun and Mohandar.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Protoss have always helped Raynor, I'm sure they still remember him. They are probably in game. I'd put down money on it. If they have a portrait they will appear in WoL.

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I've no doubt that Raynor will receive aid from the Protoss at some point in the campaign to acknowledge their past history together. But from half the Hierarchy at the same time? If Raynor could pull that off in a fraction of a campaign, Zeratul's had his work done for him even before LotV begins. And they just so happen to fill the Phoenix, Void Ray, Carrier line-up of the Protoss' combat air units? I'm smelling a trick here.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

Exactly. There are even achievements related to Preservers, Selendis, Urun and Mohandar.

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Achievements are not an indication of importance. If you notice, even Probes need to be unlocked and the heroes you mentioned rank below Executor, which is the standard building portrait for the Protoss. Plus, if you look at the other races, aside for the final portrait for those achievements, none of the others feature notable individuals from the campaign (e.g. Raynor, Zeratul, etc).

I think the named portraits are real heroes who will play an actual role in the campaign. They probably have different voice actors, too (although possibly just people in Blizzard, rather than actors).

On top of the "Tiger Marine" and other guys, who might be more generic, unnamed Dominion officers who show up to control enemy bases in the campaign.

Perhaps all those unnamed marines are going to be just a random portrait distribution between Dominion forces as you fight them, just to spice up the variety a bit.

As for all the palette swapping, after looking at their massive list of portraits, it really does make sense just to palette swap most of the time as it would save them a lot of time instead of having to design a new portrait for every 'unique' or different unit that they have. Doesn't mean I'm any less disappointed about those palette swaps though, at least change a detail here or there like with the Spartan Company goliath and the normal goliath.

I just hope they at least have their own unique voices (I doubt it) for every mercenary. That would be great.

I got a feeling that Tassadar will return as a Twilight Archon.

And oh boy, Blizz killed half of the awesomeness that Protoss faces had. SHIAT.
They got more concrete facial traits, but hell, SC1 had EACH Protoss individual to have a unique face. Now they are all similar as one. SHIAT again.

He'd have to merge with someone to be a twilight archon.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

He'd have to merge with someone to be a twilight archon.

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I don't know, he clearly is an Archon on a portrait. Seriously, there are an Archon armor pieces on him.
And who knows, maybe for Protoss like him it's just enough to create a blast of Twilight energy.

I wonder if we will see Adun as well... :D

Do you remember, how, if it is known, did Savassan(Khas) died?

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Originally Posted by Kknewkles

I got a feeling that Tassadar will return as a Twilight Archon.

And oh boy, Blizz killed half of the awesomeness that Protoss faces had. SHIAT.
They got more concrete facial traits, but hell, SC1 had EACH Protoss individual to have a unique face. Now they are all similar as one. SHIAT again.

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Perhaps they are just generic Hero types. Though it would make sense that Mohandar has similar Void Ray pilot armor just pimped out. The same goes with Urun and his wicked mask/visor. The other heroes that have recolored portraits are probably not important enough to warrant a uniqur portrtait. Maybe they are generic squad leader A or something like that.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

I've no doubt that Raynor will receive aid from the Protoss at some point in the campaign to acknowledge their past history together. But from half the Hierarchy at the same time? If Raynor could pull that off in a fraction of a campaign, Zeratul's had his work done for him even before LotV begins. And they just so happen to fill the Phoenix, Void Ray, Carrier line-up of the Protoss' combat air units? I'm smelling a trick here.




Achievements are not an indication of importance. If you notice, even Probes need to be unlocked and the heroes you mentioned rank below Executor, which is the standard building portrait for the Protoss. Plus, if you look at the other races, aside for the final portrait for those achievements, none of the others feature notable individuals from the campaign (e.g. Raynor, Zeratul, etc).

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Who cares if they're important or not. THEY ARE IN THE GAME AND WILL APPEAR IN THE CAMPAIGN, case in point. :P

If they have achievements and portraits and even unit icons, they're definitely going to appear in the campaign. And there are also several achievements with Raynor himself (portrait, Raynor in his marine suit with a sniper rifle, and two of him in his marine suit with a normal gauss rifle), and even achievements for Nova, Tosh, Stettman, Kerrigan and Swann! (portraits and their ingame units)

They're just characters with relatively minor roles which Blizzard didn't bother to make completely original portraits for.

Some of the Protoss 'heroes' are simply the equivalent of the Warlord from the first mission of WC3 RoC. They're probably only around for the one mission.

From what I understand anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

He'd have to merge with someone to be a twilight archon.

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Blizzard could pull future lore-stunt saying that a protoss single could temporary ascend to the physic/khala realm of archons. (Weaker version) Kinda see that happening limited in StarCraft MMO for protoss spellcasters "shapeshifting" forms. The end of the protoss sacrificing of two talent individual templars for one powerful entity.

Moved to the spoiler section.

For some of the Protoss heroes this palette swapping doesn't matter, like Urun and Mohandar, both of whom wear masks into combat. I think this serves two purposes: to clearly affiliate each with a particular unit; and because they may not serve an important role until later in the saga, by which point their in-game/briefing models will be completed.

Nyon is a relatively minor character, simply serving as the face to for a threat, and likely dies in WoL. So, there's no reason to show him as anything more than a palette-swapped High Templar.

And Tassadar is just in there for shits and giggles.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Protoss have always helped Raynor, I'm sure they still remember him. They are probably in game. I'd put down money on it. If they have a portrait they will appear in WoL.

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"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"... Yeah, I guess this pretty much sums up the relation between Raynor (Raynor's Raiders) and Protoss. But I think the relation between Raynor and Zeratul, Artanis, Tassadar or some others might be a little bit different, and that might be not just enemy's-enemy-is-my-friend kinda relation. And of course, those who gave Raynor the most help are definitely only among a small group of Protoss.

Also, there might be some Protoss kinda hate Raynor, e.g. Tal'darim the Protoss fanatics. Since Raynor had no choice but to steal the tarazine, "the breath of creation", it might jeopardize Taldarim-Raynor relation...

Mohandar and Urun definitely will not be random Protoss heroes. They're the leaders of the Dark Templar and the Auriga Tribes respectively.

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Originally Posted by Muspelli

Mohandar and Urun definitely will not be random Protoss heroes. They're the leaders of the Dark Templar and the Auriga Tribes respectively.

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My thoughts exactly. This is what fit led me to think that some of these Protoss heroes generic/non-canonical heroes made for the map editor or some Enslaver-type campaign that isn't part of the main game. They are too important lore-wise to be used as throwaway characters and there isn't enough time in the Terran campaign to fully explain the Protoss' political situation for them to be used effectively.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

Who cares if they're important or not. THEY ARE IN THE GAME AND WILL APPEAR IN THE CAMPAIGN, case in point. :P

If they have achievements and portraits and even unit icons, they're definitely going to appear in the campaign. And there are also several achievements with Raynor himself (portrait, Raynor in his marine suit with a sniper rifle, and two of him in his marine suit with a normal gauss rifle), and even achievements for Nova, Tosh, Stettman, Kerrigan and Swann! (portraits and their ingame units)

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But with the exception of Nova, Kerrigan, Artanis and Tassadar (who are final unlockables), none of these unique individuals are part of the 'number of games played' achievement trees. At least, not according to Starcraft Wikia. Just because something has a portrait and unit icon doesn't mean it's in the campaign. It just means it's in the editor.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

But with the exception of Nova, Kerrigan, Artanis and Tassadar (who are final unlockables), none of these unique individuals are part of the 'number of games played' achievement trees. At least, not according to Starcraft Wikia. Just because something has a portrait and unit icon doesn't mean it's in the campaign. It just means it's in the editor.

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They HAVE ACHIEVEMENTS FOR THEM.
And the "number of games played" achievement trees is for MP only. There is another tree for the campaign, but it's achievements are not viewable in the beta. Blizzard said Nova would have a unit in the game anyways.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

They HAVE ACHIEVEMENTS FOR THEM.
And the "number of games played" achievement trees is for MP only. There is another tree for the campaign, but it's achievements are not viewable in the beta. Blizzard said Nova would have a unit in the game anyways.

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And I've already pointed out that all it shows is that the assets are in the editor, and does not necessarily mean they are in the campaign. Is it possible? Yes. However, it's also been previously highlighted the difficulty of putting such lore-significant Protoss characters into the game; there isn't enough time to explain their role in Protoss society and they are too important to be simply used as throwaway characters in the main campaign. Had these been randomly named characters, they'd more likely to be appearing in the main campaign.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

And I've already pointed out that all it shows is that the assets are in the editor, and does not necessarily mean they are in the campaign. Is it possible? Yes. However, it's also been previously highlighted the difficulty of putting such lore-significant Protoss characters into the game; there isn't enough time to explain their role in Protoss society and they are too important to be simply used as throwaway characters in the main campaign. Had these been randomly named characters, they'd more likely to be appearing in the main campaign.

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The achievements are from the new SC2 BNET site...Why would they have them if you can't get them? The units aren't just in the editor...They have to be already playable or you have to fight against them to have the achievements. You can't make a map and have achievements in the custom map. All achievements are for things either possible in ladder or the campaign. No such thing as achievements for the editor or custom maps.

Anyways, these units are probably used in the Protoss side campaign.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

The achievements are from the new SC2 BNET site...Why would they have them if you can't get them? The units aren't just in the editor...They have to be already playable or you have to fight against them to have the achievements. You can't make a map and have achievements in the custom map. All achievements are for things either possible in ladder or the campaign. No such thing as achievements for the editor or custom maps.

Anyways, these units are probably used in the Protoss side campaign.

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All we have is an achievement that unlocks Mohandar's portrait. Not an achievement that unlocks Mohandar. The portrait does not have to have ANY use in the campaign; as long as they've made it, they can put it to use as an unlockable in the MP.

I'm 100% with mr. peasant.

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Had these been randomly named characters, they'd more likely to be appearing in the main campaign.

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^this. We're bound to get face time with Artanis and Selendis at the very least, and that's already on top of 2-3 missions that revolve around Zeratul. There's only so many characters you can service well within the scope of a single campaign.

Which isn't to say I'm absolutely certain they're not doing it; or even that it can't be done right, maybe it can. But I wouldn't bet money on it.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

All we have is an achievement that unlocks Mohandar's portrait. Not an achievement that unlocks Mohandar. The portrait does not have to have ANY use in the campaign; as long as they've made it, they can put it to use as an unlockable in the MP.

I'm 100% with mr. peasant.



^this. We're bound to get face time with Artanis and Selendis at the very least, and that's already on top of 2-3 missions that revolve around Zeratul. There's only so many characters you can service well within the scope of a single campaign.

Which isn't to say I'm absolutely certain they're not doing it; or even that it can't be done right, maybe it can. But I wouldn't bet money on it.

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I never mentionned the portrait! I said there is a list of achievements and there are even icons for them, 3 of which are for these Protoss hero units. The achievements are something like "Kill x number of units with Selendis' Carrier". THAT WOULDN'T BE IN WINGS OF LIBERTY AND HAVE AN ICON IF IT WASN'T UNLOCKABLE IN WOL! That's what I've been trying to say over and over again, dude. xD

I'm telling you THESE HERO UNITS ARE IN THE GAME. This is not up for debate and this assumption you uphold, no matter how logical it might seem, is INCORRECT. There is data for these units in the beta and in the final version of the game, so they ARE in the game for sure.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

I never mentionned the portrait! I said there is a list of achievements and there are even icons for them, 3 of which are for these Protoss hero units. The achievements are something like "Kill x number of units with Selendis' Carrier". THAT WOULDN'T BE IN WINGS OF LIBERTY AND HAVE AN ICON IF IT WASN'T UNLOCKABLE IN WOL! That's what I've been trying to say over and over again, dude. xD

I'm telling you THESE HERO UNITS ARE IN THE GAME. This is not up for debate and this assumption you uphold, no matter how logical it might seem, is INCORRECT. There is data for these units in the beta and in the final version of the game, so they ARE in the game for sure.

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Oh. Well, could you...... link us to these achievements? If such explicit, inarguable proof exists out there in the cosmos... it sure seems like it would help to have it on hand.

I haven't seen any SP achievements yet. You might very well be right.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

Oh. Well, could you...... link us to these achievements? If such explicit, inarguable proof exists out there in the cosmos... it sure seems like it would help to have it on hand.

I haven't seen any SP achievements yet. You might very well be right.

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Here you go:
http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/static...ments-5-75.jpg

This is only like 1/3rd or 1/4th of them, though. There are also a few MP achievements in this one.

Erm. I've seen that. But where's the bit that says, "Kill x number of units with Selendis' Carrier" or "Kill x number of units with Mohandar's Void Ray" or whatever?

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

Erm. I've seen that. But where's the bit that says, "Kill x number of units with Selendis' Carrier" or "Kill x number of units with Mohandar's Void Ray" or whatever?

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That was more of an educated guess I'd say...But I think the image is enough to prove that these units are in the game and will appear in the campaign. The other units in the pic are of Raynor with a Sniper and Mercenaries. These will all appear in the game. I think it's pretty obvious that the Protoss heroes will also be in the campaign.

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Originally Posted by Alex06

That was more of an educated guess I'd say...But I think the image is enough to prove that these units are in the game and will appear in the campaign. The other units in the pic are of Raynor with a Sniper and Mercenaries. These will all appear in the game. I think it's pretty obvious that the Protoss heroes will also be in the campaign.

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Not to criticise your rationale but I think it's more a stab in the dark rather than definite certainty. For instance, you're overlooking the fact that there are similarly designed portraits for the Colossus, Immortal and Stalker as well. If these are all characters who will be appearing in the campaign, that's a heck of a lot of Protoss characters for what is supposed to be a Terran campaign (remember, Zeratul's mini-campaign only covers a few missions and forms a small fraction of WoL).

Moreover, I contend those icons aren't all being used for achievements exclusively. This is because there are 81 icons on that page alone. And since there are 5 such pages, that gives a total of 405 icons. That would be a lot no matter how you cut it. And even if half of them are being used for the campaign, that averages about 7/mission; which is still too high since the missions we've seen so far feature 3-4 achievements (including level completion). A more likely alternative is that these icons are being used for all purposes (meaning units, abilities, research, etc) and/or unused or spare icons.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Not to criticise your rationale but I think it's more a stab in the dark rather than definite certainty. For instance, you're overlooking the fact that there are similarly designed portraits for the Colossus, Immortal and Stalker as well. If these are all characters who will be appearing in the campaign, that's a heck of a lot of Protoss characters for what is supposed to be a Terran campaign (remember, Zeratul's mini-campaign only covers a few missions and forms a small fraction of WoL).

Moreover, I contend those icons aren't all being used for achievements exclusively. This is because there are 81 icons on that page alone. And since there are 5 such pages, that gives a total of 405 icons. That would be a lot no matter how you cut it. And even if half of them are being used for the campaign, that averages about 7/mission; which is still too high since the missions we've seen so far feature 3-4 achievements (including level completion). A more likely alternative is that these icons are being used for all purposes (meaning units, abilities, research, etc) and/or unused or spare icons.

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Those are achievement icons. The filename even says achievements, and I got them from the new SC2 BNET site, NOT from the game's files, and that site doesn't have unit icons yet...Please stop overlooking what's obvious...We haven't seen all the achievements and the first few missions don't include hero units. Since you do play Protoss in a few missions (mini-campaign), there could be a "kill x amount of units with a stalker" or "build x stalkers" achievements.