[theory] Raynor's son to appear in WoL

Well, this theory was developed after I read through a couple of posts in another thread.

So what if Raynor actually encounters his son in the terran campaign? I mean possiblities are low, but the potential in lore could actually benefit the debth of the story and dramatise Raynor's internal conflicts without involving Kerrigan herself.

She is currently his main concern and probably one of the main focus points on WoL according to the new cinematic between Raynor and Zeratul.

So here is a sumary of the circumstances that would be needed in order to for this events to take place:

- Raynor's son actually survives the Ghost training program
- He survives the assimilation of the Ghost program into the dominion
- He has not been sent to a suicide mission
- Raynor finds out his son is alive

Theory 1:

Mengsk actually files out that Raynor's son is still alive and turns him into a killing machine to kill Raynor. He baits Raynor into a trap where he will know that the ghost hunting him is his son. (Cliche)

Theory 2:

Raynor is looking at some files to look for the past of Kerrigan and finds his son's archive. He knows that his son is alive, but that he needs to find a way to take him back out of the Ghost program. (Slightly Cliche)

Theory 3:

Tosh knows about Raynor's son and knows that he is about to complete the Ghost program for the Dominion and that his mind will be wipped completely soon. Rescue Mission (Cliche)

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Mengsk actually files out that Raynor's son is still alive and turns him into a killing machine to kill Raynor. He baits Raynor into a trap where he will know that the ghost hunting him is his son. (Cliche)

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This is exactly what happened to Corbin Phash lol. Anyway, I actually like the idea. It sounds VERY fitting for the Confederacy to lie about a potential Ghost's death.

But the chances of him surviving into the Dominion, and then further surviving Mengsk's Ghost Overhaul program (killed off half of all his ghosts, what a retard), is not very high.

I think number 1 is a possibly, it would make a cool mission though.

Actually...it would be really interesting if Mengks were directly responsible for
Raynor's son's death...ala...the Ghost Purge.

That's assuming the Confederacy did indeed lie about the kid's original demise.

This would add some serious fuel to Raynor's vendetta against Mengks.

An even better plot would be for Mengks to have spared Raynor Jr. only
to eventually send him on a suicide mission to assassinate Jim. Or kept him
locked up as a prisoner to be used as a bargaining chip, should Raynor actually
succeed in bringing down the Dominion.

Lot of interesting doors open with the introduction of Raynor's son still being alive.

I approve this theory!!!

#1 is too cliche. Arcturus Mengsk is a genius. He wouldn't take the risk that the ghost might have some sort of feeling for dad. Especially, as a mind-reader, he's likely to feel what Raynor feels for him. Although Mengsk is a bit low-empathy himself; that might not occur to him.

But there's other loose ends. Ryk Kydd is still alive, for instance!

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

But there's other loose ends. Ryk Kydd is still alive, for instance!

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And pardon my ignorance, but Ryk who?

Ryk Kidd:

Hidden Content:

Ryk Kidd is Heaven's Devils character. Sniper who worked with Tychus and Raynor in the Guild Wars, and had some level of psi-powers, but was unhindered with by the ghost program.

http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5336

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Ryk_Kydd (Edit: Roland beat me to it).

Also, I doubt John will appear, Depending on which timeframe you use, his age during WoL would be 9 or 14 at the most. Either age doesn't make me confident that a child would fit in with all the other characters, even if it's just a single rescue mission. Also, in a way, I think that Colin Phash is essentially continuing the concept that John started. They're quite similar IMO.

And considering that John could have easily died in the shuttle (if by any chance it actually occurred), in training, on Tarsonis or in Mengsk's purge, I don't think he's exactly begging for an appearance, considering the number of hazards he's had to endure up to WoL, if he's still alive.

I say you've just uncovered plot's branch. Son of Jim MUST appear somewhere.
Just like Ulrezaj. :D

Let the 'dead' stay dead. I don't blizzard to start strewing SC lore and add ****** lore. Hate to see Johnny boy all live wanting pops to rescue him from Mengsk. Bought back plenty enough characters from their frozen graves. No blood kindred legacy of Raynor, let him die. (e.g. No livin' gramps, 12 cousins, 3 aunts, 4 uncles, a unknown half-sister/brother etc...)
Though a rilivaly Valerian Mengsk and John Raynor be something. Carrying the famous opposition of their fathers for SC Online. ;p

Bit-off topic: How did Raynor's place survive the protoss' Mar Sara purification? :confused:

Looking at its state, I'd hardly say it survived. Also, the protoss purification process has a pinpoint aspect to it, such as on Chau Sara. Presumably Raynor's place was far away enough from any of the epicentres.

Raynor's son is Nova boyfriend!
i would lol

otherwise, idk they have a lot of options, however i would say they need to minimize this drama either kill him or make/keep him good. If he's good i think Blizzard could have a character who can legitimately try to somehow cure Kerrigan of her madness. Idk i would find him far more interesting as a character aiding Zeratul/ the Xel'Naga than stupid Mengsk vs. Raynor drama.

Raynor vs. Mengsk should consist of Raynor shooting Mengsk and walking away.

Jim's son bodyguard of Mengs

If John was Nova's boyfriend, then that would probably come under investigation for possible sexual abuse. And if he was Mengsk's bodyguard, then he's even more of a tyrant than we thought.

why would that be sexual abuse...

idk their ages but...umm Nova's hot, and the girl can be the older one in a relationship

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

But the chances of him surviving into the Dominion, and then further surviving Mengsk's Ghost Overhaul program (killed off half of all his ghosts, what a retard), is not very high.

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Heh, if he's killing off the ones who are only able to, say, tell who handled this glass, or who last touched that keyboard, it's actually rather smart. Cut costs, use what you need.

Anyhow, Mengsk is smart. If John is still alive, he's probably in Cyro under an assumed name, for use as an emergency bargaining chip. Alternatively, he could have ordered John to be cut from the program, and then handed to the biologists For Science! I really can't see all those psions being killed without some attempt to figure out how much damage they can withstand, which organs are absolutely necessary, which parts of the brain govern psychic abilities...

Of course, this information would only serve to REALLY piss of Raynor, so I'd guess that Mengsk wouldn't do it unless he was feeling particularly invincible. Which I don't think is possible, not after the events of Brood War. However, if a third party wanted to play one end against the other...

Raynor already has the loss of Kerrigan to want to kill Megsk...so not that hard to get him to fight

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Originally Posted by Noctis

why would that be sexual abuse...

idk their ages but...umm Nova's hot, and the girl can be the older one in a relationship

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Let's use WoL as a start point, occuring in 2504 (or '05 if you're inclined, but I'll use '04 for this). By this stage, Nova would be 19 years old.

Now as for John, we don't know his year of birth, and two different dates exist for Raynor leaving Tychus-2490 (by Metzen's 14 year figure) and 2495, as per the HD timeline. Let's assume that John was born in the same year after Raynor meeting Liddy. So, if the '90 figure is correct, then he'd be 14 years old at the most. If the '95 figure is corret, he'd be 9 years old at the most.

So, er, you think a relationship with Nova would be healthy at either of these ages?:confused:

Well if he went through the Ghost Program...

and uhh idk about you but i would totally hook up with Nova if i was 14
:D

BOOYA

LMAO this is funny stuff.

Ok well, Nova got mind wiped anyway and she's a killer, I really doubt a boyfriend (let alone one that is underaged) is anywhere in her interests.

Is nova suppose to be a one of the good guys?

We cant have Raynor Jr. be the only one to take up Raynor Sr.'s "save the ghost" complex.

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Originally Posted by Noctis

Is nova suppose to be a one of the good guys?

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Not after her reprogramming.

which raynor jr. will remove and they'll fall in love, and then get married, and raynor sr. will be sooo happy and cry, and then there will be raynor babies!!!

that's SC2 in a nutshell.

StarCraft 2: Rise of the Raynor Babies

in all seriousness, after reading up on her completely it seems like we'll end up restoring her memory or something along the lines of her becoming good, it'll be cliche but im sure mengsk is the one who had a hand in killing her family.

You can't really remove a mind wipe... I'm assuming mind wiping is different from the resocialization process though. Or are they the same? I'm assuming that mind wipes permanently get rid of your old memories while resoc just puts on new memories over your old ones, making you remember entirely different stuff.

They should just start mind wiping more often (assuming mind wiping is indeed different than resoc). Terrans get 'fixed' way too often by Protoss. Like Gestalt Zero, bam inhibitor owned by Muadun. Jin? Bam, memories restored by Khastiana (although that didn't do either of them any good). Marcus? Boom, totally screwed over an entire battlecruiser because Zamara reversed the resoc. And IIRC Ardo had his memories restored by LOGIC. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

You can't really remove a mind wipe... I'm assuming mind wiping is different from the resocialization process though. Or are they the same? I'm assuming that mind wipes permanently get rid of your old memories while resoc just puts on new memories over your old ones, making you remember entirely different stuff.

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1) Maybe a memory wipe can be removed. SPOILER! (It's concept art for a canned game, though.)
2) It's now being called a memory reassignment program, and we've seen the technology not just erase memories but also rewrite them in StarCraft: Ghost Academy. I think the lore simply evolved between StarCraft: Ghost: Nova and Ghost Academy. The process involved a machine operated by a psychic, so I wonder if the process is actually psionic in nature and not just technological.

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They should just start mind wiping more often (assuming mind wiping is indeed different than resoc).

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The Confederacy started using memory wipes after Sarah Kerrigan escaped, suggesting there's lots of new ghosts who don't have inhibitors. However older ghosts don't seem to get those inhibitors removed followed by a memory wipe (Devon Starke, for instance, still had an inhibitor until he was rescued by Valerian Mengsk; Gestalt Zero had an inhibitor despite being experimented upon three years after the Brood War, which suggests to me he had joined the Ghost Program more than a decade earlier).

And memory wipes are superior; they seem to mess up the ghost's mind as much as an inhibitor but doesn't interfere with psychic abilities. As a result, newer ghosts are probably more psychically potent.

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Terrans get 'fixed' way too often by Protoss. Like Gestalt Zero, bam inhibitor owned by Muadun. Jin? Bam, memories restored by Khastiana (although that didn't do either of them any good). Marcus? Boom, totally screwed over an entire battlecruiser because Zamara reversed the resoc.

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I don't think it's that common; reversing resocialization requires at least a bit of time and short range (if you're Zamara) or physical contact (if you're just a high-psychic zealot).

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And IIRC Ardo had his memories restored by LOGIC. Seriously.

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No, it was much more involved than that. Merdith Jernic used her powers to show him his "real" memories while asking questions, but Ardo Melnikov could not tell which set of memories were real until he used logic. (And she clearly was using powers; Melnikov's sense of logic pointed that out.)

And, of course, people like Merdith Jernic are probably responsible for the mass conscription of psychics, as you don't want someone wandering into barracks and undoing all those resocs!

She may not get her memories back but from SC Wiki

"Despite her efforts however, Nova couldn't run from her past forever. Reunited with an old friend, Nova was assigned to investigate a ghost-kidnapping plot, making a shocking discovery that not only pitted her against her past, but also the future of terran psionic warriors·spectres.[11] Through the ordeal, she would come to choose between loyalties to Arcturus Mengsk and Colonel Hauler."

Bad guy? i think not.

Woah, interesting. I didn't know about that passage.

Leave Raynor's kid dead please.

Warcraft is already a bad enough perpetrator when it comes to bringing back characters from the dead. SC2 already has Tassadar coming back in some form. We don't need a Raynor's kid plot twist. It gives Raynor a REASON to be depressed. Bringing back a dead character most players don't even know of is a confusing and cliche.

"Your close relative who you thought was dead all this time... He's actually alive! And now your arch nemesis!" Seriously, we don't need this.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

Leave Raynor's kid dead please.

Warcraft is already a bad enough perpetrator when it comes to bringing back characters from the dead. SC2 already has Tassadar coming back in some form. We don't need a Raynor's kid plot twist. It gives Raynor a REASON to be depressed. Bringing back a dead character most players don't even know of is a confusing and cliche.

"Your close relative who you thought was dead all this time... He's actually alive! And now your arch nemesis!" Seriously, we don't need this.

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This.

No! Add it as a interesting plot twist! There is so much potential with this idea, it is too good to pass up!

Raynor had a son?!?!?!?!!?!?!??!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UvNSDtL4Ts...ping_butch.jpg


Seriously... A returning son mixed into all this is just too big of a clichè. I can't even imagine a guy like Raynor fostering a son...

Raynor's son: nnnno. I'm not even sure how I feel about that whole incident as things stand already; making the mess even more convoluted by bringing him back is not a good idea.

Nova's characterization: well, as someone who knows just about jack-squat about what Nova's like these days, I just hope they do something interesting with her. An anti villain sounds more interesting than most things they could do with a goody two-shoes Nova.

Frankly, I just want the Mengsk side of the conflict to beef up on characters a bit. Ideally, he'd have anywhere between 3-5 cronies regularly interacting with Raynor (even if only from a distance). I mean, hell, even SC1 managed Duke. If all SC2 does is replace Duke with Valerian, that's going to be rather disappointing...

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Originally Posted by Triceron

Leave Raynor's kid dead please.

Warcraft is already a bad enough perpetrator when it comes to bringing back characters from the dead. SC2 already has Tassadar coming back in some form. We don't need a Raynor's kid plot twist. It gives Raynor a REASON to be depressed. Bringing back a dead character most players don't even know of is a confusing and cliche.

"Your close relative who you thought was dead all this time... He's actually alive! And now your arch nemesis!" Seriously, we don't need this.

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To quote Arthas:

"Doesn't ANYBODY stay dead these days?"

delete

They never really confirmed Johnny's death. They just said he died in some accident off screen. Considering his Psionic aptitude and the ones who told Raynor that his son was dead were from a Confederate Ghost Program., I think it is highly implied to be a lie. They never went into detail on how he died. The news came to Jim from a dubious third party (Confederates)